Midway is located in Minnesota Commercial's yard. The Empire Builder uses Minnesota Commercial to get between the CP "short line" and BNSF's Staples (?) Sub.
Minnesota Commercial is a local industrial shortline/transfer line.
Amtrak relocates to SPUD May 7 (includes old topic)
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Minnesota Commercial is a local industrial shortline/transfer line.
2 questions:
Will Midway station be redeveloped into offices or businesses or just stay the same? Amtrak could make some $ if they sell the land to someone for offices (Amtrak could always have office space in the redeveloped station)
I heard that Amtrak trains still have to stop here for a few minutes for dropping off a coach, refueling, etc., and I heard that parking is better here than at SPUD (based on info from All Aboard MN and MN NARP). Based off of this, why don't trains continue to stop here at Midway Station as well??
Will Midway station be redeveloped into offices or businesses or just stay the same? Amtrak could make some $ if they sell the land to someone for offices (Amtrak could always have office space in the redeveloped station)
I heard that Amtrak trains still have to stop here for a few minutes for dropping off a coach, refueling, etc., and I heard that parking is better here than at SPUD (based on info from All Aboard MN and MN NARP). Based off of this, why don't trains continue to stop here at Midway Station as well??
The Empire Builder still stops at the Midway Station for switching moves and any servicing. In the summer there is a seasonal CHI-MSP-CHI coach (#807/#808). Also an PV drop-offs or pick-ups happen here.
There was plenty of FREE at the Midway Station.
It's $5 - $6/day at the SPUD. Since the SPUD is in the far southeast corner of the Twin Cites Metro area there have been discussions about having the EB stop at one of the North Star Commuter Stations in the far northwest corner; Fridley, Anoka or Elk River. There's free overnight parking at those stops. It's for people taking the NorthStar and LRT to the airport! Given all the players and bureaucracies involved in an extra stop that decision probably won't happen in my lifetime, LOL.
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Basic servicing is done at SPUD, though. When I went through on the eastbound Builder the other day, there was a short (couple minutes, maybe) pause near Midway, but we never pulled into the platform area. They unloaded garbage, added ice, etc. at SPUD.
TraneMan
Conductor
So there's no fresh air stop, or was it at SPUD?
Ispolkom
Engineer
On #8 on Sunday there was a short smoke break at SPUD, but the emphasis was on short ("less than 5 minutes"). I don't remember what they said on #7 earlier in the week.
Food trucks at SPUD! But they won't be there when the EB arrives unless it's really, really late...oh, wait...
Union Depot hosts Food Truck Fridays at the St. Paul end of the new light rail line
Union Depot hosts Food Truck Fridays at the St. Paul end of the new light rail line
NorthShore
Conductor
Looks like they'll be there during the jazz fest on the latter Saturday.
TraneMan
Conductor
A friend of mine is a conductor on the EB, and when we went to SEA a few weeks ago, I was able to hang out with him and and another conductor (who was deadheading) and they said they H A T E SPUD!
I had a chance to watch it first hand and and he was solo since the other one time has ran out.
Here are a few things the pointed out they hate SPUD, and they said along with the other conductor has mention this to the managements.
-They send people down to the platform just as the train arrives, and no one is directed of where they are suppose to go. So, first time travelers, they don't know what cars are theirs. So when people get off, they are in the mix of people getting on. (That night, there was a good numbers coming and going)
- The platform is narrow..
- The stop time went from 45 mim to 7 min. It's a smoke stop, but it's not annouced.
- Ticket office is way on the other end of the building, a long walk if they have to go in there for some reason.
- At the old Midway, they kept the passengers inside, allowed the ones get off, and then they conductor will go in and scan the tickets as they leave the building, now they don't have time to scan the tickets. They are too busy sorting out the lost people on the platform. So they have to scan once the train leaves SPUD, and try to sort out the people.
I know I am missing a couple of things that they were venting out about... But once they pointed those things out, I feeel bad for them.. Once he got the tickets scanned, I could tell he was stressed out being solo...
I had a chance to watch it first hand and and he was solo since the other one time has ran out.
Here are a few things the pointed out they hate SPUD, and they said along with the other conductor has mention this to the managements.
-They send people down to the platform just as the train arrives, and no one is directed of where they are suppose to go. So, first time travelers, they don't know what cars are theirs. So when people get off, they are in the mix of people getting on. (That night, there was a good numbers coming and going)
- The platform is narrow..
- The stop time went from 45 mim to 7 min. It's a smoke stop, but it's not annouced.
- Ticket office is way on the other end of the building, a long walk if they have to go in there for some reason.
- At the old Midway, they kept the passengers inside, allowed the ones get off, and then they conductor will go in and scan the tickets as they leave the building, now they don't have time to scan the tickets. They are too busy sorting out the lost people on the platform. So they have to scan once the train leaves SPUD, and try to sort out the people.
I know I am missing a couple of things that they were venting out about... But once they pointed those things out, I feeel bad for them.. Once he got the tickets scanned, I could tell he was stressed out being solo...
Ispolkom
Engineer
I can certainly see that. I caught #7 at SPUD a couple of weeks ago, and directed a few passengers to where I thought they should be (for example, if you're in the Portland sleeper, start walking).
For passengers it's a mixed bag. The sleeper lounge is rather small and was quite crowded on our evening. While the main waiting room is, of course, huge and empty. If you want the code for the Metropolitan Lounge you have to find the ticket office, which way the back of beyond.
Pluses on a night when the train was late include free wifi, and Bedlam Theatre across 4th street. In spite of the name, they are mostly a bar that has locally sourced food and interesting cocktails. It was quiet on a Tuesday night -- I'm not sure I'd like it there when a band was playing or there as an avant garde theatrical event. The men's room had a sign that said, "Male, Trans, Genderblur," which is darned unusual for St. Paul.
I'm not sure why it's such a short stop, since it isn't as though there isn't padding in the schedule.
Sounds like all of the troubles (minus the narrow platform part) are stupidly simple to fix, and are purely in the control of the Amtrak Station Master.
- Follow what the airlines do. Namely, wait to let boarding passengers out through the gate until those disembarking have all gone into the station.
- Board sleepers first
- Board coaches second.
- Have adequate signage on the platforms with arrows and car names/numbers (Seattle-Bound Sleeping Car Passengers - 0731 & 0732 ->)
- Scan tickets as passengers leave through the gate doors
- Extend the station dwell time to adequately serve these needs
MattW
Conductor
Or better yet, put signs on the platform with the train configuration, and do away with any semblance of a kindergarten walk altogether. Every other civilized country on the planet (except Via Rail, they seem to have turned it into a preschool walk from what I understand) has figured this out. Why can't Amtrak?
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TraneMan
Conductor
Yeah, they have thrown this at their management, and it's all deaf ears.
As scan tickets at the gate, they would do that if there was more time than just 7 min. Also, that time isn't enough for the baggage exchange.
neroden
Engineer
Exactly as their job has already required for years. Tickets are supposed to be scanned on board, period. There's plenty of time as there is are 54 minutes to the next stop eastbound, and over two hours to the next stop westbound direction. I'm not sympathetic to THAT.
Conductors on the Empire Service routinely break the rules by trying to scan tickets before boarding, and they delay the trains. I'm glad to hear that conductors on the Empire Builder aren't just breaking the rules, but they don't get to complain about following the rules which were always present.
If the conductors want people to be able to find their boarding locations better and quicker, they should ask the station or Amtrak to put up little signs like Amtrak did at Denver, next to where each car is supposed to board. Easy fix.
I am sympathetic to complaints about reducing the station stop time from 45 minutes to 7 as it changes a LOT of procedures, but not to this complaint.
neroden
Engineer
If you suggest stupid, moronic ideas which delay the train, you will be told to shut up -- good to see that management is competent.
The conductors need to be more careful about their suggestions. Suggest the signs, period, which are a good idea. Stop making the dumb suggestions, which every other one of these suggestions is.
Trains are not airplanes. Trying to treat them like airplanes (a) delays the train and (b) is laziness on the part of the conductors.
Trains are not airplanes.
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andersone
Conductor
why do I have this urge to shout "All Aboard?"
Ispolkom
Engineer
This is clearly the answer. There are only the two trains, and they always have the same configuration. Just put up signs saying where coach passengers for X city should stand.
Or a Europe solution. Sign inside the station showing the position of the cars in relation to the engines.
Or a hobby show solution. "O" scale model with cards show the number of each car, and there position to the engines.
FYI this happen at most stops. I point out locations for people to stand when the Lake Shore Limited pull into Utica NY. Boston Sleepers, New York Sleepers (how to tell which one your in) coach passengers in the middle.
Or a hobby show solution. "O" scale model with cards show the number of each car, and there position to the engines.
FYI this happen at most stops. I point out locations for people to stand when the Lake Shore Limited pull into Utica NY. Boston Sleepers, New York Sleepers (how to tell which one your in) coach passengers in the middle.
P
potato
Guest
What did he mean by "narrow platforms"? They seem quite wide to me, certainly more so than Chicago Union Station!
TraneMan
Conductor
I am not sure if wider than CHI. But it's narrow when you got a lot of people getting off and on at the same time so it can get crowed vs the old Midway, there was LOTS of space.. (I'm guessing they are used to that.)
Also worth noting: In Chicago for Amtrak there's only people either getting on or getting off, not both like at SPUD. (Sometimes a METRA train will do both, but there's a lot less luggage there.)
SubwayNut
Conductor
I thought Saint Paul was a crew change station? This would mean the conductors would be scanning tickets before the train even arrives?
The only time I find scanning tickets in the station makes sense to me is when a station is a crew change spot and the conductors are in the station scanning tickets before the train even arrives (Denver and SLC are the main stops that come to mind).
Example: A couple nights ago when I boarded the northbound Crescent in Charlotte and the crew went around the waiting room before departure to scan everyone's tickets. Everyone of course then decided to self form a line at the gate out to the platforms before we were finally allowed to go out to a single open door for the coaches where both conductors were helping hoist people and their suitcases (as someone who's gotten on and off countless commuter and Amtrak trains at low-level platforms unassisted) I couldn't believe how many people clearly wanted help. Once we finally got into the vestibule the train attendant handed out seat numbers (I assumed this would happening and was happy about it since I was for once traveling with someone, who I got a free ticket for using a companion coupon). We all boarded just one coach but they could have opened up a second vestibule and split the load
At every intermediate stop until the discharge only stops of the NEC, the same thing happened just one door would be opened and our train got later and later, two to two and a half hours late. There were no noticeable freight train delays. A couple connecting to Buffalo just missed the Lake Shore. The conductor in Washington wanted to send them up on 176, the 12:02 Regional that would have made the Lake Shore but it was moving and leaving as we arrived in Washington.
The only time I find scanning tickets in the station makes sense to me is when a station is a crew change spot and the conductors are in the station scanning tickets before the train even arrives (Denver and SLC are the main stops that come to mind).
Example: A couple nights ago when I boarded the northbound Crescent in Charlotte and the crew went around the waiting room before departure to scan everyone's tickets. Everyone of course then decided to self form a line at the gate out to the platforms before we were finally allowed to go out to a single open door for the coaches where both conductors were helping hoist people and their suitcases (as someone who's gotten on and off countless commuter and Amtrak trains at low-level platforms unassisted) I couldn't believe how many people clearly wanted help. Once we finally got into the vestibule the train attendant handed out seat numbers (I assumed this would happening and was happy about it since I was for once traveling with someone, who I got a free ticket for using a companion coupon). We all boarded just one coach but they could have opened up a second vestibule and split the load
At every intermediate stop until the discharge only stops of the NEC, the same thing happened just one door would be opened and our train got later and later, two to two and a half hours late. There were no noticeable freight train delays. A couple connecting to Buffalo just missed the Lake Shore. The conductor in Washington wanted to send them up on 176, the 12:02 Regional that would have made the Lake Shore but it was moving and leaving as we arrived in Washington.
NW cannonball
Conductor
Last I heard, the crew changes at SCD. (barring the all-too-usual delays)
At the old Midway station at MSP, the conductor would walk into the station and set up a gate at the door to the platform to check boarding tickets. Sleepers first, then need assistance, then the rest.
At the new SPUD, the gate is way up 2 flights from platform to the classic waiting area. The ticketing and baggage check people are way away -- at least 60 yards and 2 flights from the head of the gate to the escalators and stairs to the tracks.
Also, there's still only 2 people assigned to the ticketing and baggage check (2 levels down and 80 yards from the head of the amtrak boarding escalator.
When the eastbound #8 was late a few weeks back, I watched the second "ticketing and baggage person" go up - over - down -- at least 3 times.
She wasn't getting any better info than me, or my onboard passenger I was eager to meet.
"stopped at Saint Anthony, no more info" was all she, or anybody could say. (the son visiting me that day said - "totally botched freight move at the bottleneck at Saint A")
I can say that she walked the walk, (in high school, it might have passed for some PT credit) and faced the passengers, and those of us waiting for passengers -- calmly and truthfully said she didn't know.
Having the ticketing and baggage place so far from the tracks seems to work at Kansas City. Maybe it will be a while before the Amtrak crews learn how to optimize at SPUD
At the old Midway station at MSP, the conductor would walk into the station and set up a gate at the door to the platform to check boarding tickets. Sleepers first, then need assistance, then the rest.
At the new SPUD, the gate is way up 2 flights from platform to the classic waiting area. The ticketing and baggage check people are way away -- at least 60 yards and 2 flights from the head of the gate to the escalators and stairs to the tracks.
Also, there's still only 2 people assigned to the ticketing and baggage check (2 levels down and 80 yards from the head of the amtrak boarding escalator.
When the eastbound #8 was late a few weeks back, I watched the second "ticketing and baggage person" go up - over - down -- at least 3 times.
She wasn't getting any better info than me, or my onboard passenger I was eager to meet.
"stopped at Saint Anthony, no more info" was all she, or anybody could say. (the son visiting me that day said - "totally botched freight move at the bottleneck at Saint A")
I can say that she walked the walk, (in high school, it might have passed for some PT credit) and faced the passengers, and those of us waiting for passengers -- calmly and truthfully said she didn't know.
Having the ticketing and baggage place so far from the tracks seems to work at Kansas City. Maybe it will be a while before the Amtrak crews learn how to optimize at SPUD
neroden
Engineer
This is why the idiotic "one door, check tickets at door" stuff is - according to what I've heard secondhand -- prohibited by the rulebook. Is there some way to get Amtrak to crack down on conductors who do this?
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