Amtrak Priority Law Goes to Supreme Court (Decided 3/9/15)

[jis]

I believe the complaint that Amtrak filed with STB is only about NS. CSX is not involved in that. The complaint is about NS's handling of the Capitol Limited between Chicago and Pittsburgh, which is entirely NS. Amtrak has not filed any complaints about the handling of the Lake Shore limited between Schenectady and Cleveland, which would be CSX, yet. Some folks think, that is partly because Amtrak's own problems on LSL are too significant for Amtrak to complain about those delays. Better to keep the sleeping dog lie.

Amtrak's STB filing was against both NS and CSX.

Press Release

Ah OK. But pertaining only to the Capitol Ltd. Not the Lake Shore Limited, which is ironical, since CSX seems to be much more culpable with the LSL situation than with the Cap situation.

Better to keep the sleeping dog lie.

The freight railroads are openly funding anti-Amtrak politicians. Might as well fight them while you're still standing instead of waiting until you're on your knees.

There is no point in trying to fight a case where a significant part of the fault is yours. It is sort of like "I am suing the guy for killing the victim, after I had already maimed the victim". Isurmise that for this reason there is careful lack of mention of the LSL in all this even though arguably CSX delays the LSL way more than it does the Cap.

 

[PaulM]

Amtrak has not filed any complaints about the handling of the Lake Shore limited between Schenectady and Cleveland, which would be CSX, yet. Some folks think, that is partly because Amtrak's own problems on LSL are too significant for Amtrak to complain about those delays. Better to keep the sleeping dog lie.

Why is this? I would guess that the bulk of Amtrak caused delay is due to equipment failure, which seems to be equally distributed among all trains. Certainly, excess boarding times are trivial when talking about LD trains. Also, isn't any putzing around at Albany sufficiently padded?

What consistent severe delays have not been caused by freight interference or slow orders?

 

[Ryan]

Last winter trains originating late out of CUS didn't have anything to do with freight interference or slow orders.

 

[jis]

Amtrak has not filed any complaints about the handling of the Lake Shore limited between Schenectady and Cleveland, which would be CSX, yet. Some folks think, that is partly because Amtrak's own problems on LSL are too significant for Amtrak to complain about those delays. Better to keep the sleeping dog lie.

Why is this? I would guess that the bulk of Amtrak caused delay is due to equipment failure, which seems to be equally distributed among all trains. Certainly, excess boarding times are trivial when talking about LD trains. Also, isn't any putzing around at Albany sufficiently padded?

Westbound it is actually not, given the congestion on the single track between Albany and Schenectady. Amtrak quite regularly failed to hand over the LSL to CSX anywhere near the scheduled time at Hoffmans. Ironically this problem occurred partly due to late arrival of the eastbound LSL into Albany. But I guess it is hard to establish unique chains that are complex in such arguments. Hence I suspect Amtrak just decided not to wade into that swamp and just focus on the clean case provided by the Cap.
Incidentally Amtrak's boarding practices on the Empire Corridor also keep coming up as a factor in the failure of LSL to keep time. I am not sure to what extent that is a factor and why Amtrak is either reluctant to or unable to fix the problem.

 

[NE933]

Yes, any rail artery is not Amtrak's or other railroads', private playground. But it is an artery that the blood of transportation life must flow, and an equation must be formulated to move people and the things we buy.

 

[Train2104]

Supreme Court: Amtrak is not a private entity.

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/14pdf/13-1080_f29g.pdf

 

[PRR 60]

Supreme Court: Amtrak is not a private entity.

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/14pdf/13-1080_f29g.pdf

9-0, as well.

 

[John Bobinyec]

Okay, so it's not a private entity. What does that mean as far as the host railroads paying penalties is concerned?

jb

 

[jis]

Well that should improve the OTP situation, if Amtrak can keep all the wheels on and turning.

I found this interesting tidbit in there:

In addition to directing Amtrak to serve these broad

public objectives, Congress has mandated certain aspects

of Amtraks day-to-day operations. Amtrak must main­

tain a route between Louisiana and Florida. §24101©(6).

When making improvements to the Northeast corridor,

Amtrak must apply seven considerations in a specified

order of priority. §24902(b). And when Amtrak purchases

materials worth more than $1 million, these materials

must be mined or produced in the United States, or manu­

factured substantially from components that are mined,

produced, or manufactured in the United States, unless

the Secretary of Transportation grants an exemption.

§24305(f).

Maybe it is now time for the Sunset East coalition to sue Amtrak for not meeting its legal obligation to them? Afterall what is good for the goose should be good for the gander no? Clearly the Supreme Court thinks it is not a matter of Amtrak's financial convenience. It is their obligation by law, no?

 

[Train2104]

Well that should improve the OTP situation, if Amtrak can keep all the wheels on and turning.

I found this interesting tidbit in there:

In addition to directing Amtrak to serve these broad

public objectives, Congress has mandated certain aspects

of Amtraks day-to-day operations. Amtrak must main­

tain a route between Louisiana and Florida. §24101©(6).

When making improvements to the Northeast corridor,

Amtrak must apply seven considerations in a specified

order of priority. §24902(b). And when Amtrak purchases

materials worth more than $1 million, these materials

must be mined or produced in the United States, or manu­

factured substantially from components that are mined,

produced, or manufactured in the United States, unless

the Secretary of Transportation grants an exemption.

§24305(f).

Maybe it is now time for the Sunset East coalition to sue Amtrak for not meeting its legal obligation to them? Afterall what is good for the goose should be good for the gander no? Clearly the Supreme Court thinks it is not a matter of Amtrak's financial convenience. It is their obligation by law, no?

I can't find this provision in the law...https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/24101

 

[jis]

Well that should improve the OTP situation, if Amtrak can keep all the wheels on and turning.

I found this interesting tidbit in there:

In addition to directing Amtrak to serve these broad

public objectives, Congress has mandated certain aspects

of Amtraks day-to-day operations. Amtrak must main­

tain a route between Louisiana and Florida. §24101©(6).

When making improvements to the Northeast corridor,

Amtrak must apply seven considerations in a specified

order of priority. §24902(b). And when Amtrak purchases

materials worth more than $1 million, these materials

must be mined or produced in the United States, or manu­

factured substantially from components that are mined,

produced, or manufactured in the United States, unless

the Secretary of Transportation grants an exemption.

§24305(f).

Maybe it is now time for the Sunset East coalition to sue Amtrak for not meeting its legal obligation to them? Afterall what is good for the goose should be good for the gander no? Clearly the Supreme Court thinks it is not a matter of Amtrak's financial convenience. It is their obligation by law, no?

I can't find this provision in the law...https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/24101

Yeah it is curiois that they quoted that section for it. That actually comes from one or more of the several appropriation/authorization bills. Don;t remember which. Still I thought it curious that they would specifically quote that one.

 

[neroden]

I think there's a question of standing when it comes to suing Amtrak to force it to reinstate Sunset East. :-( I'm no lawyer, but think it's likely that only Congress / the US government has standing.

 

[jis]

I think there's a question of standing when it comes to suing Amtrak to force it to reinstate Sunset East. :-( I'm no lawyer, but think it's likely that only Congress / the US government has standing.

That would be kind of funny. FRA suing itself or something like that. It would be a funny case. "Amtrak, we won't give you the money to do it, but you are legally obligated to do it. So there! "

 

[Ryan]

Supreme Court: Amtrak is not a private entity.

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/14pdf/13-1080_f29g.pdf

9-0, as well.

That's somewhat surprising. (edit: the 9-0 part more so than the verdict)

It'll be curious to see what happens to system OTP in the coming weeks.

 

[tommylicious]

One for the good guys! Huzzah!

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

Forgive me for being obtuse, but I gather this is a good thing? That the freights will now have to let Amtrak go first?

On the other hand, does it mean that people like our friend Mica get to boss Amtrak around more?

Also, I'm confused about the Florida-Louisiana connection. I think it would be wonderful to have it again but never expected to see it. I thought Amtrak seemed glad to get rid of it, the states it would go through (except Florida) didn't want to be bothered with it, and it was completely dead. What turned things around? I know there was some vocal advocacy in northern Florida, but were there other factors as well? (I'm thinking that if there were, we could use the same tactics for a daily Cardinal!)

Thank you for all answers and input. I feel like I am taking a beginner course in the Supreme Court!

 

[Devil's Advocate]

My understanding is that this narrowly defined verdict merely sets up the next round of litigation. We're still years away from any sort of fundamental conclusion.

 

[jis]

My understanding is that this narrowly defined verdict merely sets up the next round of litigation. We're still years away from any sort of fundamental conclusion.

Upon further reflection I tend to agree with you.
Also Mystic.... this does not change the relationship that Congress has with Amtrak. It is what it is, and the Mica's can always do whatever they want to do. Actually of late, Mica has been surprisingly non-offensive when it comes to Amtrak.

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

Thank you, Devil's Advocate and jis. Now I have a better understanding of this.

jis--Now that I think about it, you're right about Mica lately. I even saw a picture somewhere of him smiling at the new Winter Park Amtrak/SunRail station opening!

 

[Motorcar]

From Justice Thomas at the end the ruling;

We have too long abrogated our duty to enforce the separation of powers required by our Constitution. We have overseen and sanctioned the growth of an administrative systemthat concentrates the power to make laws and the power to enforce them in the hands of a vast and unaccountable administrative apparatus that finds no comfortable home in our constitutional structure. The end result may be trains that run on time (although I doubt it), but the cost is to our Constitution and the individual liberty it protects.

 

[Benson]

I sure hope that we begin to see OTP improve in the near future! The Louisiana - Florida clause is intriguing...could we see the restoration of the Sunset East? Wouldn't that be something?!?

 

[Palmetto]

Frankly, the return of the Sunset Limited to Florida would be a boon to residents of Florida, Georgia and anyone who wanted to connect from Silver Service to the Sunset. It's a very circuitous routing if one wants to go--let's say--Orlando to Dallas.

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

Frankly, the return of the Sunset Limited to Florida would be a boon to residents of Florida, Georgia and anyone who wanted to connect from Silver Service to the Sunset. It's a very circuitous routing if one wants to go--let's say--Orlando to Dallas.

I was thinking it would be wonderful in the winter for those of us who never want to see snow or black ice again. Go down to Florida for a while, then all the way across to California without having to spend money for a hotel overnight in New Orleans and without having to go back up to the cold to come back down again.

It would be especially nice for retirees, semi-retirees (like me!), and people from Europe or Australia, many of whom come to Florida in the winter (I am not counting the Canadians--they are there, too, but they're pretty good with snow!)

 

[MikefromCrete]

Restoring the Sunset East without any additional funding would mean something else would have to be cut and probably eliminate any chance of a daily Sunset.

 

[jis]

Or Acelas make enough additional money to cover it There is more than one way to skin such cats, if one wants to.

If the PIP plan is followed then what we will have is a daily Eagle with a Stub to NOL or Florida or wherever.

I have heard that the NOL - Florida folks are really campaigning for a train that has good timing for that portion and is not necessarily a Sunset extension too. So who knows? If it is locally funded it will almost certainly not be a Sunset extension.