Amtrak left passengers - how could you make this mistake?

[Triley]

You obviously have no idea how many people still show up in small towns with limited train service and no ticket agent, to travel w/o a reservation...

Heck, not even small towns. On one single trip on 67 one crew had someone board in Stamford with cash. The next crew had a family of three or four board in Trenton and want Business Class, which was also a cash buy onboard. I remember the crew being shocked at how much cash one guy was able to produce to pay for the ticket (mind you, they were going to DC). Highest fare bucket plus a $10 surcharge for buying it onboard is typically the deal, though they can sometimes wave the $10 for various reasons.

 

[KmH]

Sometimes it pays to have a herd mentality.

Herd mentality can also result in a bunch of useless blame-the-customer ranting as witnessed in this thread.

Hence, the word "Sometimes".

 

[Hal]

Well, OK, if they were cash-on-board passengers, I could see them being missed. I thought that wasn't even allowed on most ("all-reserved") trains though.

Everyone is supposed to have a reservation or ticket. So if the train is sold out the crew will say no. If there is space and they have a credit or debit card, the crew (Conductor or AC) would usually have them call reservations and buy an e ticket over the phone. That would also save the passengers money as the crew can ony sell the highest fare on the train, no discounts, which also includes a 10% surcharge so the passengers usually do that. If they don't have a credit card or debit card, some don't, then they would pay with cash and get a reciept from the crew.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[TinCan782]

Well, OK, if they were cash-on-board passengers, I could see them being missed. I thought that wasn't even allowed on most ("all-reserved") trains though.

Everyone is supposed to have a reservation or ticket. So if the train is sold out the crew will say no. If there is space and they have a credit or debit card, the crew (Conductor or AC) would usually have them call reservations and buy an e ticket over the phone. That would also save the passengers money as the crew can ony sell the highest fare on the train, no discounts, which also includes a 10% surcharge so the passengers usually do that. If they don't have a credit card or debit card, some don't, then they would pay with cash and get a reciept from the crew.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I didn't think the Cascades was an "all reserved" train. Thought it would be like the Pacific Surfliner which is unreserved). Besides, the station at Oregon City is un-manned and has no Quik-Trak machine

Edit: restructured statement!

 

[CCC1007]

The surfliner is an unreserved train

 

[Palmetto]

Everyone is supposed to have a ticket, but in commuter territory, the pass holders have a ticket but no reservation. And therein can lie the tricky part. Let's use Providence to Boston as a prime example.

 

[Hal]

Everyone is supposed to have a ticket on trains, but in commuter territory, the pass holders have a ticket but no reservation. And therein can lie the tricky part. Let's use Providence to Boston as a prime example.

Everyone is supposed to have a ticket on "reserved" trains. There is nothing tricky. Pass holders have a ticket. If it is valid on a particular train the EMD will accept it. If not the EMD will reject it when scanned. As far as reservations those are not in the EMD if a ticket has not been purchased. It cancels out if not paid for. Space is not guaranteed unless it has been purchased. So on reserved trains if you show up with cash you might not be allowed on.

If the EMD shows zero boarding and the train takes pass riders then the crew might not know that people standing there had passes if they did but I suspect pass riders would know which door the train was boarded.

Of course on unreserved trains you really don't know.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[TinCan782]

The surfliner is an unreserved train

I'm aware of that. Isn't the Cascades the same?

Perhaps my wording was confusing! Re-worded that in my previous post.

 

[TinCan782]

Everyone is supposed to have a ticket, but in commuter territory, the pass holders have a ticket but no reservation. And therein can lie the tricky part. Let's use Providence to Boston as a prime example.

Same with the Pacific Surfliner. I have, on occasion, used my Metrolink monthly pass on the Surfliner for my commute. The conductor scans that.

 

[the_traveler]

The only unreserved trains on Amtrak are the Surfliners, Hiawathas, (I believe) Capitol Corridor and the Keystones (between PHL and Harrisburg only). All other Amtrak trains and Thruways are reserved.

 

[Manny T]

"The next crew had a family of three or four board in Trenton and want Business Class, which was also a cash buy onboard. I remember the crew being shocked at how much cash one guy was able to produce to pay for the ticket (mind you, they were going to DC)."

-----That was Trenton, NEW JERSEY, right?

 

[Triley]

"The next crew had a family of three or four board in Trenton and want Business Class, which was also a cash buy onboard. I remember the crew being shocked at how much cash one guy was able to produce to pay for the ticket (mind you, they were going to DC)."

-----That was Trenton, NEW JERSEY, right?

Yes'ir. I just assumed it was implied, since they were buying a ticket for just our train, and we had business class.

 

[Manny T]

Well I wanted to firm up the NJ connection because Tony Soprano lived at 633 Stag Trail Road, North Caldwell, NJ which is about 60 mins. drive from Trenton, and might explain the large amounts of cash changing hands on your train.

 

[Cole737]

Thanks for all of your comments and inputs, ya'll. sorry I'm taking so long to get back to you. The conductor was the assistant conductor that we've seen run 507 lots of times. She was standing the doorway of business class as the train sat there for a while. I can confirm she said "I think so" to the engineer. I went back and watched the tape. There is no way she though they were part out our video group, as we were at least 100 feet away from the stranded passengers. The passengers said they were headed to Eugene from Oregon City and would now have to wait until morning. We all tried to alert the crew, but we (the filming group) were too far away from the train, up top near the station building, and the two ladies missing the train ran with it for a while waving their arms - but no luck. I still believe amtrak should have opened a for in coach seating, or at least done a better job of looking for passengers needing to board. "I think so" should never be a confirmed way of communicating.

Thanks for your inputs

-Cole

PS: I'm "AmtrakPNW" on YouTube, and my recent Cascades Compilation has the exchange in it. You can hear the conversation on the scanner, as well as a few faint shrieks and please from the passengers getting left there. Towards the end.

 

[Palmetto]

How about a 10-ticket rider as Triliy said? :huh: I believe you can get them ROC-SYR, PDX-ABY and EMY-BFD - all of which only have reserved trains but 10-ticket riders do not need reservations.

This is the situation I was referring to Hal: in reference to having a ticket [a pass] but not a reservation. Of course, pass riders tend to take the same trains every day to/from work or school, so from that point of view, there's some measure of predictability.

 

[Hal]

Thanks for all of your comments and inputs, ya'll. sorry I'm taking so long to get back to you. The conductor was the assistant conductor that we've seen run 507 lots of times. She was standing the doorway of business class as the train sat there for a while. I can confirm she said "I think so" to the engineer. I went back and watched the tape. There is no way she though they were part out our video group, as we were at least 100 feet away from the stranded passengers. The passengers said they were headed to Eugene from Oregon City and would now have to wait until morning. We all tried to alert the crew, but we (the filming group) were too far away from the train, up top near the station building, and the two ladies missing the train ran with it for a while waving their arms - but no luck. I still believe amtrak should have opened a for in coach seating, or at least done a better job of looking for passengers needing to board. "I think so" should never be a confirmed way of communicating.

Thanks for your inputs

-Cole

PS: I'm "AmtrakPNW" on YouTube, and my recent Cascades Compilation has the exchange in it. You can hear the conversation on the scanner, as well as a few faint shrieks and please from the passengers getting left there. Towards the end.

From that vantage point possibly you could not see another door was opened. I don't see any passengers on the platform when the train rolls in. Maybe they were late arrivals.

There seems to be a transition in the video before the scanner conversation. Like the video taking had stopped and restarted or the video is edited there. The scanner audio is the engineer calling the signal, he says Clear Block and the conductor saying it back. Which she is supposed to do. My guess is the "I think so" is because the conductor is repeating back the called signal but can't see it herself. There is no audio of the conductor telling the engineer to proceed which would be before the called signal as I would expect. A complete radio converstion should go something like this, Amtrak Conductor 507 to the head end you may proceed to (name of next station) on signal indication. Amtrak Engineer 507: Clear. Amtrak Conductor 507: Clear, Roger. You say the train was there for a while. That part is not on video.

So I scenario I could envision is that the doors were closed, the conductor said to proceed but there was a stop signal. (passengers arrive after doors closed and signal to proceed). The signal changes to clear. The engineeer calls the signal which the conductor repeats back but is not a signal that is visible from her position so she said I think so after repeating it back. I have never been there so I don't even know if there is a signal there so I am only speculating.

 

[CCC1007]

This one?

 

[Cole737]

Hal, yes there is a signal right after the station platform

 

[neroden]

If the passengers were ticketed and on the manifest, I certainly hope the passengers complained to Amtrak Customer Relations. They should get compensation and there should be a reprimand to the crew for leaving ticketed passengers on the platform, and a bit of retraining.

 

[CCC1007]

Sounds to me that the engineer may have been newer, possibly didn't realize that he should have sounded the horn then waited 10 seconds or so to see if they reacted.

 

[fairviewroad]

Not enough evidence on that video to convict or exonerate either the train crew or the passengers.

On a side note...while it's certainly possible to purchase 10-ride or monthly passes from Oregon City to Eugene, I suspect that in practice this rarely occurs. Just two trains a day on that segment, and they don't really line up with commuting patterns. I'd think anyone with a multi-ride ticket would know precisely where to present themselves on the platform and how to capture the train crew's attention.

 

[Triley]

Sounds to me that the engineer may have been newer, possibly didn't realize that he should have sounded the horn then waited 10 seconds or so to see if they reacted.

The engineer goes when the conductor says so. They're not watching for passengers on the platform, that's the conductor's duty.

 

[FormerOBS]

True story from the 1970's, before I worked for Amtrak:

I was a coach passenger, traveling on the old Broadway Limited from Chicago to Canton. We arrived at Canton's short platform. I detrained with other coach passengers, and other coach passengers boarded. Some sleeper passengers were waiting to board. The conductor told them that the train would make a second stop for sleeper passengers due to the short platform. The train started moving and kept going, missing the second stop, and disappearing into the night. This was at a time when there was no agent at Canton, but there was a pay phone, so a quick call was made to Amtrak. I waited around to see how this played out.

Some frantic calls must have been made by phone and radio. The train was evidently stopped somewhere around Fairhope or Louisville. Then it BACKED UP as many miles as it took, on the Penn Central mainline, until it finally got back to the station. Backing up an occupied passenger train on the "wrong main" is not a simple matter. It has to be done at restricted speed. By the time the train got back to pick up the passengers, over a half hour had been lost. I have no idea how the crew explained this or apologized to the boarding passengers, and I have no idea of the consequences to the crew.

That's a true story. I somehow doubt that the long backup move on the mainline would have been allowed today.

Tom

 

[Cole737]

Wow Tom, that's quite a story! The result surely wouldn't be the same today!

 

[sechs]

Mistakes like this are going to happen.

I've mentioned this one before, but a sleeper attendant told me of the time he was working the Southwest Chief and was left in Newton with his step stool. The train pulled away with the sleeper door open.