Amtrak FY 2020 Budget

Discussion in 'Amtrak Rail Discussion' started by keelhauled, Mar 11, 2019.

Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

  1. Mar 22, 2019 #26

    jis

    jis

    jis

    Conductor AU Lifetime Supporter Gathering Team Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    24,402
    Location:
    Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
  2. Mar 23, 2019 #27

    StanJazz

    S

    StanJazz

    Service Attendant

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2009
    Messages:
    170
    Location:
    CHI
    When I mentioned the 1 NPCU Cab car in the Train Jam thread people acted like I was crazy.
    This is from page 9 of the Amtrak pdf on existing equipement.

    Former F40PH Diesel Amtrak-owned 1 1977 41 One unit retains HEP Generator and is used as an NPCU
     
  3. Mar 23, 2019 #28

    NSC1109

    N

    NSC1109

    Service Attendant

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2016
    Messages:
    231
    Location:
    MI
    Yes and no. That is the only cab car in service with an HEP generator. Look under the next section.


    Also noticed something odd: the Port Huron and Pontiac facilities denoted on page 18 indicate they only service Amfleets, Horizons, and SC44s for layovers. The Chargers aren’t even in service for Michigan yet. The Gennies are still here, so why aren’t they listed?
     
  4. Mar 23, 2019 #29

    Anderson

    A

    Anderson

    Conductor

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2010
    Messages:
    9,081
    Location:
    Virginia
    I'm not horridly opposed to the idea (regardless of how the link happens, the Detroit/Windsor connection is one that very much should come back) but boy does that sound like a mess waiting to happen if Amtrak were running the train in question. As indicated above, bring VIA into Detroit or run a connection to Windsor...but any sort of cross-border service that doesn't more-or-less clear pax at the start/end of the route is going to have no trouble getting killed by the relevant delays when CBP gets backed up.
     
  5. Mar 23, 2019 #30

    NSC1109

    N

    NSC1109

    Service Attendant

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2016
    Messages:
    231
    Location:
    MI
    Unfortunately, bringing VIA over to Detroit isn’t a viable option with the current location of Detroit’s station. It would take a lengthy shove move to get to New Center. Same for a train leaving Detroit to get to Canada. The only way to avoid it is to move all services to MC Station.

    As for the border crossing, I remember that when I traveled on the Cascades from Vancouver to Seattle, our border stop was maybe 10-15 minutes maximum. Instituting some sort of “precheck” would definitely help.
     
  6. Mar 23, 2019 #31

    lordsigma

    l

    lordsigma

    Lead Service Attendant

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2017
    Messages:
    485
    The reports out in the last couple days (fleet plan, asset line plan, etc.) give some hints about things that are coming, but they seem to be saving most of the details for the reauthorization network plan where they present their vision of the long distance network. This notion of an experiential service class on the two day trains is interesting. It will be interesting to see what is proposed for that. Also mentioned are efforts to study daily service on the cardinal and sunset limited.
     
  7. Mar 23, 2019 #32

    dgvrengineer

    d

    dgvrengineer

    Train Attendant

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2018
    Messages:
    50
    I think Detroit-Toronto service would do well. Another problem along with the Detroit station requiring a backup move, is the Windsor station would be missed if the current connecting track from CP to CN is used. It would require another backup move to reach the Windsor station. A lot of time would be lost between Detroit and Windsor with backups and connecting from CP to CN. All Via service to Toronto is on CN.
     
  8. Mar 23, 2019 #33

    Anderson

    A

    Anderson

    Conductor

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2010
    Messages:
    9,081
    Location:
    Virginia
    Not being terribly familiar with the area, it seems that part of the answer might be a "new" station (or two) in the area (whether said station is a new building or a reestablishment of service at a former station/location is academic). A new connecting track might also be part of a package.
     
  9. Mar 23, 2019 #34

    dgvrengineer

    d

    dgvrengineer

    Train Attendant

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2018
    Messages:
    50
    Via Windsor station is near the Detroit river about 2 miles north of the tunnel exit. I don't think it would be possible to make any other connection closer than the current one which would require about a mile & a quarter backup move. I'm not sure where the old CP station is located or if it even exists anymore. In Detroit, a move back the MC station would seem an obvious need. The big question is how and still keep the existing stations.
     
  10. Mar 24, 2019 #35

    NSC1109

    N

    NSC1109

    Service Attendant

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2016
    Messages:
    231
    Location:
    MI
    That’s something I’ve been considering for quite a while and the thing I thought of was utilizing the commuter rail network that MDOT wants to start up to connect the current stations with DMC. Ford is keeping four passenger tracks specifically for Amtrak to return. If MDOT can finally get SEMCOG off the ground (or whatever it’s called now), then Detroit can be a mini-hub into Canada and Ohio while still maintaining a connection to the suburbs currently served by Amtrak. The infrastructure is mostly in place; the critical part is switching from one line to another just southwest of New Center, and there’s already a connection between Roosevelt and 25th.

    Might even be enough to justify rerouting the LSL via Michigan and Canada, something else MDOT has been lobbying for.

    In addition to the Equipment 5-year plan, I also found the Service Line 5-year plan, which is from FY2019 to FY2023.
    https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/.../Amtrak-Five-Year-Service-Plans-FY18-FY23.pdf
     
  11. Mar 24, 2019 #36

    neroden

    n

    neroden

    Conductor

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    7,296
    Location:
    Ithaca, NY
    Detroit-Toronto would most likely use Dearborn station rather than Detroit if it went through to Chicago. I suppose they could run Pontiac-Toronto via Detroit though! Still no way at all to stop in Windsor without a new station, but that might be OK. Track connections are sufficient to get to all the other significant stations west of Toronto though.
     
  12. Mar 24, 2019 #37

    neroden

    n

    neroden

    Conductor

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    7,296
    Location:
    Ithaca, NY

    That is news to me.

    Can't drop Cleveland - Upstate NY service. (Also, Erie PA.) DOA as a reroute; would need a second train. Also, unless it runs sealed through Canada, nobody's going to tolerate a double border crossing on a domestic train; the delays would be spectactular.
     
    jis likes this.
  13. Mar 24, 2019 #38

    NSC1109

    N

    NSC1109

    Service Attendant

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2016
    Messages:
    231
    Location:
    MI
    That would be the idea, running sealed. If you want to stop in Canada, take the TOR service.

    As for the Ford thing, it was announced quite a while ago, not too long after the bought the building I think. No need for a Dearborn stop for Detroit if they’re going to reactivate DMC for service (no firm word on Amtrak’s part but Ford is prepared to do that).

    As for the backup move, I was incorrect about that, at least for Detroit. There is a direct connection from the tunnel to the CN (?) Line where New Center is.

    Heres the Freep (Detroit Free Press) article:
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.freep.com/amp/722967002
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
    neroden likes this.
  14. Mar 24, 2019 #39

    neroden

    n

    neroden

    Conductor

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    7,296
    Location:
    Ithaca, NY
    FWIW, coming out of the tunnel in Windsor, I believe any Amtrak route would take the College Avenue switch and go onto tracks controlled by the Essex Terminal Railway through a pair of yards, before entering the VIA subdivision. There are two other theoretical routes, but they're worse.

    This would allow for construction of a "Windsor Tunnel Station" along the ETR route; there are a number of plausible locations which are definitely in Windsor proper and away from the CP mainline (Howard Ave would be the first one off the main freight routes). Or VIA could put a station near the Tecumseh Mall which could serve tunnel and non-tunnel trains, which seems more plausible.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  15. Mar 24, 2019 #40

    Amtrak706

    Amtrak706

    Amtrak706

    Service Attendant

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2017
    Messages:
    140
    So, so many mentions of planning fleet decisions around “any possible changes” to the LD trains following the reauthorization. Not a good sign. The corridor related stuff looks promising, but it’s unfortunate that it seems to be at the expense of common sense, the long distance trains, and really Amtrak as a proper railroad. The fact that they are even considering selling the office cars is very telling.
     
  16. Mar 24, 2019 #41

    jis

    jis

    jis

    Conductor AU Lifetime Supporter Gathering Team Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    24,402
    Location:
    Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
    I don’t see anything wrong with saying that they will operate a service consistent with the reauthorization. Afterall they could not possibly say “we’ll do whatever we like, screw the reauthorization.”
     
    Ryan likes this.
  17. Mar 24, 2019 #42

    Amtrak706

    Amtrak706

    Amtrak706

    Service Attendant

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2017
    Messages:
    140
    True, but it sounds to me like they are hoping for and almost expecting a major change in the national network in the next reauthorization. I wouldn’t be surprised if they have been in contact with at least some part of Congress (not the committee who sent that nice little letter a while back, though) to push the agenda of scaling back the national network. I think a pre-Anderson/Gardner Amtrak wouldn’t have made that effort to try and mess up the LD system.
     
  18. Mar 24, 2019 #43

    jis

    jis

    jis

    Conductor AU Lifetime Supporter Gathering Team Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    24,402
    Location:
    Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
    It is within the realm of possibilities. To get these pre-warnings is better than being completely blind-sighted like we were on the Silver Star or the CONO by the previous administration. At least we get a chance before we are handed a fait accompli.
     
    Amtrak706 likes this.
  19. Mar 25, 2019 #44

    neroden

    n

    neroden

    Conductor

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    7,296
    Location:
    Ithaca, NY
    The enormous number of Congresspeople who signed that letter is a big deal.

    But if you want to make an impact... contact your Congresspeople. RPA is doing a "Day on the Hill" -- I'm going.

    https://www.railpassengers.org/happ...ashington-dc-advocacy-summit-day-on-the-hill/

    Obviously most people won't be able to go to that, but you can still write your Congresspeople. And join RPA. (IMO, RPA, formerly known as NARP, has been pretty effective since Jim Matthews took over -- it was very stagnant under Ross Capon.)

    ----
    Since Amtrak is pretty much saying "We're going to listen to Congress when we decide what to do with the so-called long-distance trains",.... talk to Congress about it. It'll make a difference.

    Based on my read of Congress, there's a good chance of us getting *added* or *improved* long-distance trains.

    More importantly, Amtrak may get the right to sue Class Is over delays to passenger trains -- this is a big thing which Amtrak and RPA are both working on. With the trains running on time, ridership and revenue will skyrocket and it will be impossible to kill them.
     
    daybeers likes this.
  20. Mar 25, 2019 #45

    jiml

    j

    jiml

    Service Attendant

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2019
    Messages:
    160
    Location:
    Toronto area
    Amtrak used to do a double border crossing on the old service that ran from Buffalo to Detroit through Canada. Name of the train escapes me right now and I can't remember whether it made Canadian stops, although St. Thomas, ON, comes to mind. I didn't have time to Google the details, but several here will likely know.
     
  21. Mar 25, 2019 #46

    jis

    jis

    jis

    Conductor AU Lifetime Supporter Gathering Team Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    24,402
    Location:
    Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
    All the rules and realities of border crossing changed completely after 9/11, and even more with the illegal immigrant scare of the present day.
     
  22. Mar 25, 2019 #47

    CAQuail

    C

    CAQuail

    Train Attendant

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2015
    Messages:
    35
    Location:
    Westchester County, New York
    In addition to the changes in the border crossings, the Canada Southern route that the Empire State Express/Niagara Rainbow used has been almost complete abandoned. Here is a link to the timetable for it.
    http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19751130&item=0035
     
  23. Mar 25, 2019 #48

    NSC1109

    N

    NSC1109

    Service Attendant

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2016
    Messages:
    231
    Location:
    MI
    Niagara Rainbow. NYP-DET stopping in St. Thomas and Windsor
     
  24. Mar 26, 2019 #49

    jiml

    j

    jiml

    Service Attendant

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2019
    Messages:
    160
    Location:
    Toronto area
    Yes, that was the CSX Canso sub.
     
  25. Mar 26, 2019 #50

    NSC1109

    N

    NSC1109

    Service Attendant

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2016
    Messages:
    231
    Location:
    MI
    Looking at Table 34, the “Supplemental Project List for a Proposed Infrastructure Bill” section on page 40, there are a lot of interesting things:

    Amfleet replacement: estimated $1.45bn, construction starts 2020, lasts 3 years.

    Superliner replacement: estimated $1.55bn, starts 2022, lasts 5 years.

    P42DC replacement: $466m, starts 2019, lasts 3 years.

    CUS High-Level Mail Platforms: estimated $70m, started 2016, lasts 7 years

    Chicago Terminal ROW Acquisition & Improvements: estimated $500m, starts 2019, lasts 3 years.

    “Various” corridors: estimated $20bn, starts 2019, lasts 10 years. Areas affected: Midwest, South, and West

    Restoration of DET-TOR: No data

    Acquisition of S-Line (Petersburg-Raleigh): No data

    ROW Acquisition/Improvements NOL-Mobile: No data

    ROW Acquisition Auburndale: No data

    Heartland Flyer Extension to Newton and Additional Frequency: No data


    Personally, I’m thrilled to see Amtrak investigating their own corridor into CUS. It’s long overdue and should help OTP immensely for the Michigan Services and east coast-bound LDTs. I’m also highly curious as to what the “Various corridors” are. Not sure if it’s including the Black Hawk and Quad Cities (since it’s primarily an Illinois show for those two) and the DET-TOR service is listed separately. Any ideas? The gulf coast is also long-overdue for corridor service.

    Also, does anyone have any idea where 2nd Ave Yard is in seattle? There’s multiple references to a potential purchase by Amtrak for it but I can’t seem to find it.
     
    daybeers likes this.

Share This Page

arrow_white