Alstom making progress on Acela 2 contract

Discussion in 'Amtrak Rail Discussion' started by DSS&A, Jan 2, 2018.

Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

  1. Aug 12, 2018 #101

    Acela150

    Acela150

    Acela150

    Conductor

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2008
    Messages:
    8,443
    Location:
    In a Sea of Foam
    The prototype HST will goto TTCI which is the FRA testing center in Pueblo, Colorado. It’ll then make its way to the NEC for testing. I would expect that process to be about a year to a year and a half. When the original HST was released in 2000 they had a TS open for public display at 30th Street one night I believe in May. I’ll have to double check that. I don’t know if they’ll do that again this time. But one hopes that Amtrak does such a thing.

    I believe that they were quoting the arrival of the first TS for First Quarter of 2019. But! The OIG report has it listed as December of 2019. As we saw with the ACS-64 order things can go ahead of the projected timeline. And considering that Alstom is an experienced builder I would hope for the same results. And yet again, but! Alstom is approximately 3 months behind due to an issue with the FRA requirements of crumple zones. But 3 months is peanuts and I believe can be made up.
     
  2. Aug 12, 2018 #102

    west point

    w

    west point

    Conductor

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2015
    Messages:
    1,817
    It may be that internal company milestone schedules and public ones are different to protect for unforeseen problems ? ? Look how Siemens has been able to = or beat timetable milestones. ?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 12, 2018
  3. Aug 13, 2018 #103

    MARC Rider

    M

    MARC Rider

    Conductor

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1,239
    Location:
    Baltimore. MD
    You all are aware that rear facing seats are safer in the event of a collision?

    There's a reason why they require rear facing car seats for infants. And I believe many miltary transport planes have rear facing seats.
     
    Zach likes this.
  4. Aug 13, 2018 #104

    Ziv

    Z

    Ziv

    OBS Chief

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2011
    Messages:
    544
    I don't generally ride the NEC, but if people were allowed to pay to ride on the test set before the other Avelia's arrived, I would be tempted to take a trip to NYC from WAS. Ain't going to happen, but it is fun to contemplate.

    Given that 20 Acela's trainsets have around 6080 seats and 28 Avelia's have around 11,300 seats, it seems like ridership should rise while prices may stay the same and maybe there will be low bucket fares occasionally? Does that happen on Acela now?

    Is it just a rookies wishful thinking or could this really improve the NEC revenue stream, and allow Amtrak to thrive, even if the federal contribution drops a bit? I would really like to see more departure times on existing routes. A second daily Empire Builder is high on my wish list. It seems like the solution to a lot of Amtrak's woes is more Amtrak. I doubt Burlington Northern would agree with me on that though.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2018
  5. Aug 13, 2018 #105

    GBNorman

    G

    GBNorman

    OBS Chief AU Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    Messages:
    573
    http://railcolornews.com/2018/08/09/us-amtrak-reveals-interior-design-of-its-future-alstom-avelia-trains

    There will be a push to have 'em in revenue service in time for the inauguration of the 46th POTUS (date of such left for your speculation).

    Now regarding colors, European railroads certainly have become a "splash" of such. "When I first went over...(1960), you could have a train any color you want so long as it was flat Red, Blue, or Green." I think we all know what was the color of the "puffer up front".

    The only exception was the Sleeping Cars of the CIWL, or Wagon-Lits, operated throughout the Continent. Those were a deep "Royal Blue" with Maize lettering and a metal Herald placed center car.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2018
  6. Aug 13, 2018 #106

    PRR 60

    PRR 60

    PRR 60

    Conductor Staff Member Administator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2003
    Messages:
    8,217
    Cautionary note: Alstom is the contractor for the refurbishing of 120 transit cars for PATCO (Southern New Jersey - Philadelphia). The work was awarded in February 2011 and was expected to take five years. It's still not completed.
     
  7. Aug 13, 2018 #107

    cpotisch

    cpotisch

    cpotisch

    Conductor

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2017
    Messages:
    7,509
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    I think more people are going to be thinking about a comfortable ride than what would be theoretically safer in the event of a collision. Trains don't crash often and I don't think Acela ever has.
     
  8. Aug 13, 2018 #108

    Mystic River Dragon

    M

    Mystic River Dragon

    Conductor

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2014
    Messages:
    2,513
    I did hear riding backwards was safer, but not til I was on my light rail and we stopped suddenly. I was facing backwards, and the person next to me mentioned that it was a good thing we were riding backwards and why. So I ride backwards on commuter rail now when possible, not so much because of a dreadful accident, but more to avoid my head snapping forward into air instead of back against the seat cushion.
     
  9. Aug 13, 2018 #109

    Bob Dylan

    Bob Dylan

    Bob Dylan

    Conductor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2009
    Messages:
    18,173
    Location:
    Austin Texas
    Aka " The JFK Assination Theory" as to why his head went backwards from a "Magic" shot from the Behind from the Texas Book Depisitory!( Cue the Beatles singing "..they blew his mind out in a car..")
    Actually the "Kill shots" came from the "Grassy Knoll" and other places, but in this age of Conspiracy theories run amok, its gotten lost in the World of Wild Imaginings and Kooky Ideas on the Net and Hate Radio!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2018
  10. Aug 13, 2018 #110

    Ziv

    Z

    Ziv

    OBS Chief

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2011
    Messages:
    544
    Bob, a 7mm, 150 grain bullet doesn't cause a head to move forward all that much as it penetrates a skull from behind. But when it and the bones and brains exit the front of the skull, a great deal of the energy imparted upon the skull will make it snap backwards. Sorry if your post was meant sarcastically. ;-)
     
  11. Aug 13, 2018 #111

    Bob Dylan

    Bob Dylan

    Bob Dylan

    Conductor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2009
    Messages:
    18,173
    Location:
    Austin Texas
    This!( in RE those who doubt Science and make Moronic comments such as "..I'm not a Scientist, but/so..."
     
  12. Aug 13, 2018 #112

    Acela150

    Acela150

    Acela150

    Conductor

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2008
    Messages:
    8,443
    Location:
    In a Sea of Foam
    Bill, while you are 100% correct about the Patco contract. They had major problems with the overhauls at first because the original Budd cars were not meant to be overhauled to what they are now. That is what the major hold up was.

    If they were building the cars from scratch it would be a different story. YMMV.
     
  13. Aug 13, 2018 #113

    Acela150

    Acela150

    Acela150

    Conductor

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2008
    Messages:
    8,443
    Location:
    In a Sea of Foam
    Also of note Amtrak has posted the released images of the new HST on their Instagram story.
     
  14. Aug 14, 2018 #114

    cocojacoby

    c

    cocojacoby

    Service Attendant

    Joined:
    May 13, 2014
    Messages:
    207
    Really? You are assuming a lot here.

    How about this scenario? Your train breaks down and stops. You are hit from behind by the next speeding Acela. How safer are you now?
     
  15. Aug 14, 2018 #115

    Alexandria Nick

    A

    Alexandria Nick

    Lead Service Attendant

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    424
    Location:
    Alexandria, VA
    Not even a collision, any rapid deceleration is safer than way.
     
  16. Aug 14, 2018 #116

    Acela150

    Acela150

    Acela150

    Conductor

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2008
    Messages:
    8,443
    Location:
    In a Sea of Foam
    Which won’t happen unless a signal is displaying a clear block and the PTC fails. In a case like this the train would be moving at Restricted Speed. A speed in which the engineer can stop with in half the distance of his or her vision.
     
    cpotisch likes this.
  17. Aug 14, 2018 #117

    cpotisch

    cpotisch

    cpotisch

    Conductor

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2017
    Messages:
    7,509
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Either way, for better or for worse, people will think more about comfort than how safe they'll be if something like that happens.
     
  18. Aug 14, 2018 #118

    jis

    jis

    jis

    Conductor AU Lifetime Supporter Gathering Team Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    24,586
    Location:
    Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
    That is why people's misplaced emphasis on comfort should be ignored when appropriate. [​IMG]
     
  19. Aug 14, 2018 #119

    Devil's Advocate

    Devil's Advocate

    Devil's Advocate

    Conductor

    Joined:
    May 24, 2010
    Messages:
    10,665
    Location:
    Америка
    It works both ways though. The need for "comfortable" power outlet access seems to be one of the primary factors resulting in backward facing seats. People don't sit backwards on planes or buses either so why are trains uniquely incapable of forward facing travel? Did Amtrak perform any research to determine if access to an in-seat power outlet would mostly trump the desire to face forward?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 14, 2018
  20. Aug 14, 2018 #120

    jis

    jis

    jis

    Conductor AU Lifetime Supporter Gathering Team Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    24,586
    Location:
    Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
    I am sure they didn't research such things. The RFP asked the vendor to propose something that fit the requirements placed in the RFP. Among the requirements there was nothing saying forward, backward or anyward facingness of seats. So Alstom basically proposed what they have in TGVs, since that is the cheapest for them to put together. Simple as that.

    this business about power outlets etc. etc. is something that was dreamed up in the echo chamber here and no one has otherwise validated it from any credible source as far as I know.

    BTW, there are planes where people face backwards. I have had seats facing backwards in Business Class on a few airlines.

    Now you could choose to beat me about all these seemingly unfair behavior among all. But I am just explaining how these things work in real life.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 14, 2018
  21. Aug 14, 2018 #121

    Thirdrail7

    T

    Thirdrail7

    Conductor

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2014
    Messages:
    4,000
    Actually, this couldn't be further from the truth. Amtrak created a test coach with various types of seats and tables. It was shipped to various locations/terminals from Richmond to Boston (excluding New York since they didn't have the track space to handle the car). Employees, members of the Passenger Advisory Committee and other selected passengers in the various cities were invited to tour the car and were asked to list what they liked about each seat, each design and what the didn't like about each design.

    The "business" about the power outlets is an actual issue for a few of the seats, including the one that I believe was ultimately selected. If they went with the particular design, the seats would have to remain fixed since the electrical ports were between the seats. It was one of things I didn't like about the design. Additionally, the seats styles were originally going to be a part of an Amfleet overhaul. I doubt that will be the case.

    Whether you consider me credible is up to you but it definitely wasn't "dreamed up" by an echo chamber on this board.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 14, 2018
    daybeers and Devil's Advocate like this.
  22. Aug 14, 2018 #122

    jis

    jis

    jis

    Conductor AU Lifetime Supporter Gathering Team Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    24,586
    Location:
    Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
    Well at least it did provoke a credible response. Thanks for the info.

    In general a turnable seat will always be one more moving part to maintain, power or not. It is possible that originally the Europeans moved away from turnable seats for that reason. The fact that it happened first on suburban and short distance service before trickling into premium service suggest that just the cost of maintenance was probably an issue.

    I remember NJT at one point tried to tie down its flippable seats which caused the riders to rise in protest reversing that decision. So when they ordered the Multilevels, they simply got rid of the problem once and for all.

    Though the results of the studies could still be used, in case Amtrak should choose to create yet another seat type inventory different from the Midwest and California seats. Though there is an excuse to do so since those seats are for short/medium distance service, whereas an Amfleet II/Superliner replacement program would be for long distance service. Already the seats differ between the two.

    Speaking of seats, (apropos discussion in another thread) is there any chance that Amtrak would remotely even give an askance look at lie flat bed seats. I know it is a huge upfront cost and considerably greater ongoing maintenance cost.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 14, 2018
  23. Aug 14, 2018 #123

    Bob Dylan

    Bob Dylan

    Bob Dylan

    Conductor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2009
    Messages:
    18,173
    Location:
    Austin Texas
    I usually give great creditability to posts from jis, so inside info from where "the rubber meets the road" by Thirdrail is appreciated, as jis said!
     
  24. Aug 14, 2018 #124

    PerRock

    PerRock

    PerRock

    Conductor

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2006
    Messages:
    1,824
    Location:
    Ann Arbor, MI
  25. Aug 14, 2018 #125

    NSC1109

    N

    NSC1109

    Service Attendant

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2016
    Messages:
    236
    Location:
    MI
    Clicked on their profile photo to see the story, it was the first thing to come up. I saw the rest of the photos yesterday, there are only two up today. They only last for 24 hours.
     

Share This Page

arrow_white