EmpireBuilderFan1976
Service Attendant
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- Mar 7, 2006
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Very Bad Amtrak Review at my3cents.com
- Thread starter lepearso
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Guest
Guest
My husband and I also will be taking the EB to Seattle (and back)in September. I'm resting on the 'practically none' chances that this story will happen to us
. But I am worried about the Late Shore Limited which we also will be taking from Boston to Chicago :unsure:However, I went to the blog and read the woman's report ... somewhere she said she was a school teacher (I think), her original report doesn't write like a school teacher's report. :huh:
Thank you for allowing me to post on your forum.
Guest
For the guest poster that this happened to, you certainly have our support in complaining to Amtrak. I gather you have sent a complaint to Amtrak - I hope it was as full of every last detail as possible, including names of the offending employees, and PLEASE do let us know what the response is. While we may not want to believe every horror story, and I'm sure some are exaggerated, at the same time we have all probably seen things that shouldn't have happened, and we need to (if you'll pardon the pun) blow the whistle when we see it. When a compound horror story like yours comes along, it REALLY needs to get to Amtrak HQ, with all the details. We ALL want to see the bad eggs thrown out. That won't happen unless they're identified to management.
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Windy City LSA
Service Attendant
Ah-ha! This makes total sense to me. The group probably WAS traveling in coach. Honest misunderstanding. They often do wear large nametags. Like others have mentioned, it is unlikely folks traveling in a private car would enter the Amtrak portion of the trainset. It would also be unusual for a LSA to allow a group in the Dining Car just to drink...unless it was a very generous LSA. That would be out of the ordinary. They would normally be asked to move the party to the lounge.
Also like The Metropolitan touched on...the "first class passengers deserve better" thing is not good. The term "first class" is almost as dated as "porter". We were discouraged from using that term in fact. NOBODY deserves treatment like that.
I don't think anybody is attacking the victim. It's just that when such a lengthy, dramatic letter is submitted to ANY company, it's likely going to be picked apart and discredited...at least in part. Kind of like what has happened here. Better to just state the facts and complaints in a direct and quick-to-the-point manner...leaving out the high emotions, tears and any unnecessary details.
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Guest
Guest
Well, let me tell you. If you have a chance, go to http://www.swissotel.com/chicago/. This is the hotel Amtrak put my family in after arriving in Chicago 13 hours late on the Empire Builder. Actually, I must admit, I had convinced my family that we could walk to it from Union Station. Turns out I didn't know Chicago as well as I thought. After heading the wrong way on Wacker for several blocks (at 5am), caught a cab and asked him to take us to the "Swiss Hotel". He took us to the "SwissOtel". I honestly thought it he took us to the wrong place. Very classy. And, we only spent six hours there. Took a five hour nap, showered and headed out on the town. And, Amtrak gave us two rooms since we had a party of five. Stored our luggage in the hotel as we explored Navy Pier and did an architecture cruise up the Chicago River (best docent ever!). Amtrak gave us $80 to cover meals and cab fare. Must admit, I ended up spending more, but we had a very cool day in Chicago.
Here's the thing. When the airlines cannot connect you, or your flight is late or cancelled, you're on your own. Though anxious to get home, I was very pleased with the way Amtrak provided for my family.
C
clearfork
Guest
I forgot to say who I was. Must be train-lag....
Windy City LSA
Service Attendant
Wow. I am genuinely shocked that they use Swissotel. Maybe even a little jealous considering some of the fleabag joints they put crews in.
Everydaymatters
Engineer
You've got that wrong! Take a cruise. Now that'smemorable. It's memorable because the employees are top notch! They're underpaid and overworked but still provide service that would leave Amtrak service sitting in the dust.
The Metropolitan
OBS Chief
Reading back through this thread, the original narrative, and Windy City's insider posts in particular, it seems as if Amtrak could have prevented an awful lot of negativity if only they were just a bit more selective about where they line up their hotel arrangements, and if management posed the question "Where would I reasonably want to stay?" instead of "Where's the cheapest place?"
It's understandable that the city is going to be quite expensive particularly on short notice in peak season, but there are decent hotels in nice areas in the suburbs that are quite reasonable. Evanston has a reasonable Best Western, and if all else fails, there are a pair of Marriott properties right next to the Lake Cook Metra Station that would probably be much nicer than the dreaded place in Homestead. Sure its 22 miles from CUS, but so is Homestead.
I'd think that the original complaint might have never been registered if only someone in Customer Services or Amtrak contracts saw to it to refer their passengers to properties that were in sketchy areas.
It's understandable that the city is going to be quite expensive particularly on short notice in peak season, but there are decent hotels in nice areas in the suburbs that are quite reasonable. Evanston has a reasonable Best Western, and if all else fails, there are a pair of Marriott properties right next to the Lake Cook Metra Station that would probably be much nicer than the dreaded place in Homestead. Sure its 22 miles from CUS, but so is Homestead.
I'd think that the original complaint might have never been registered if only someone in Customer Services or Amtrak contracts saw to it to refer their passengers to properties that were in sketchy areas.
Everydaymatters
Engineer
Years ago when I had to rely on Amtrak's hotel due to a late train and missed connection, the Station Master took care of all of the passengers. He did a terrific job and accommodated us in every way possible.
So who is responsible for taking care of the passengers now? Is it whoever happens to be in the vicinity? Do they no longer have one person responsible for ascertaining that everything goes smoothly? If no one person is responsible and responsibility is shared by several people, you then have a situation where nobody is responsible.
The crew chief used to be responsible for the crew. Who is responsible now? Nobody? Anybody who happens to be nearby?
They need better checks and balances. They also need to have their executives keep their hands on the pulse of what's happening on their trains. How? Have them read these forums and blogs.
So who is responsible for taking care of the passengers now? Is it whoever happens to be in the vicinity? Do they no longer have one person responsible for ascertaining that everything goes smoothly? If no one person is responsible and responsibility is shared by several people, you then have a situation where nobody is responsible.
The crew chief used to be responsible for the crew. Who is responsible now? Nobody? Anybody who happens to be nearby?
They need better checks and balances. They also need to have their executives keep their hands on the pulse of what's happening on their trains. How? Have them read these forums and blogs.
The Metropolitan
OBS Chief
True enough, but I would think people generally take trains more often in their lives than take a cruise ship. Sure there are folks that would never set foot on either, but I speak generally. People routinely skip out on the train on the weekend to visit relatives - not so on the big boat.
I will concede that the cruise ship workers from what I've heard, are astounding in the level of service they provide, working long hours for a relative pittance, and I do take my hat off to them. However, if I took a cruise, I might never return for 5 years due to the cost, so such a trip would be certainly be quite memorable.
In just the past year, I've taken 15 trips (as long as 2 days and as short as 40 minutes) on Amtrak, and a number of them just blend together, though a trip on #6/#30, a quick trip on #14, two NE corridor hops, and another one just on #30 stand out as vividly memorable due to the great Amtrak personnel aboard, while the hell trip on #50 stands out as the worst for the same reason. The rest just fizzle together as rather forgettable as the service ranged from politely passable to borderline dismal.
G
Guest
Guest
Do they have phones from trains to stations? If a three day train was 5 hours late which is what I understand, didn't Chicago have 5 hours to plan for this? Shouldn't arrangements have been made?
TVRM610
Conductor
O.K. NOW this makes some sense! I have been trying to figure this very odd part of the story out, but her response answered my question. This is what I believe (could be wrong though):
The "Club" that they were referring to is, I am almost certain, AAPRCO, or American Association of Private Rail Car Owners (www.aaprco.com > A very cool resource by the way). These were car OWNERS, most likely riding the cars on a dead head move. Many times car owners travel with their cars as attendants, and also hire a chef to do the cooking on board. Since chef's cost money, it is sometimes cheaper for the car owners to fly the chef back to their home, rather than ride the dead-head move back. (Obviously this depends how far the car is from its home.) So if a bunch of car owners are without a chef, let's just eat in the dining car on Amtrak. Since they own the cars, they travel in them plenty and dont mind riding the train for some portions. I am sure that they moved to the train at station stops, and then, as has been suggested, hung out in the lounge until the next stop, where they moved back to their own cars.
I am very sorry for doubting the original writer's story, but this was such an odd thing, I had never really considered this. The thought of someone paying for a private car and then eating in the Amtrak diner is crazy, but I had never thought about this owners scenario. Since they own their own cars, they have to be very familiar with the Amtrak Conductors anyway, so I'm sure the Conductors wouldnt have a problem allowing them to transfer to the train to hang out in the lounge and eat in the diner.
Now as for the LSA and the diner, I imagine that they were in fact eating dinner. It could be that they were not served food yet because the LSA knew that they had regular passengers like yourself waiting to be fed ahead of these car owners, and was giving passengers like yourself priority. Since they had ordered wine, it had been served while they were waiting for their food. Perhaps the LSA was being extra kind to them since they were being understanding and waiting their turn. (and since SDS is active on this train, they were not taking up extra tables that could be used by passengers, as these tables would otherwise be empty).
Again, this is just what I THINK happened, I could be 100% wrong, but I have leased my own private car before, I know a couple of private car owners, and know a little bit how these things work.
I actually feel bad for these private car owners. They could no longer be able to transfer from their cars to the amtrak train in moves such as this if amtrak really looks into this complaint. That would be unfortunate as they really did nothing wrong, and the dining car situation was really not the main part of the complaint. Unfortunate for them in deed.
edited to fix quote - AmtrakWPK
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oldtimer
OBS Chief
My problem with the original post is that the only train the serves Holland MI is the Pere Marquette which departs at 5:20 pm so a noon departure from the hotel would arrive in CUS early for that train. Next many times Amtrak sends employees out to get on late trains enroute to arrange for missed connections even before the train arrives into Chicago. Also Amtrak forced many of their customer service people under threat of insubordination to work seveal hours after the end of their shift to accomadate late trains and puts these employees under terrible inconvience some even missing the last suburban train home. So consider the employee that you are dealing with may have been forced to work 5-8 hours overtime with no way home, that just may effect anyone's attitude.
A
Amtrak OBS Employee gone freight
Guest
Point well taken. However, I have been sorta forced to remain on the train (being I was an on board attendant at the time) whereas I was supposed to "swing" to another train to get back home to my home terminal for the end of my trip. Of course not making home that day and spending my first day off deadheading home really fouled my plans I had for my personal time (had a doctor appointment, etc).
So yeah, I was pretty upset and my attitude was in the toilet, literally. But I didn't take it out on the passengers! How is the passengers' fault the employee is in their current situation? Employee issues and Amtrak issues in general are not the passengers' responsibilty! That is management's responsibility to tackle!
OBS gone freight.......
Everydaymatters
Engineer
You, Windy City, and others are the type of employees Amtrak so desperately needs. Isn't there a way Amtrak can identify your kind and keep you as employees? Other industries grade their managers on employee retention.
This gets so frustrating. Anyone on this forum who has ever had a managerial position can see the problems and knows how to fix the problems. Who the heck is sitting on the Amtrak boards? Why don't they change things? They have to know they have a problem.
I sincerely would like to know more about this in Homewood that Amtrak sometimes uses to over-nite first-class passengers. Could it honestly be considered ONE-star ? This is ridiculous if true.
I need a "heads-up" on this because I am arriving into Chicago on the Chief on September 11th. Posters have stated that Amtrak uses this hotel during "peak" seasons when downtown hotels are too expensive.
If I discover this hotel really is quite undesireable , I will opt to dump it and pay for my own hotel stay if I am placed in the over-nite situation.
And over 25 miles out of town ? What is Amtrak thinking !!
Also, again, I am curious about just HOW Amtrak planned to take her family to the Homewood hotel. Evidently it was NOT by cab. If it was , they could have easily arranged to get back to CUS early enough the next morning to catch the train they needed. If it was not by cab, then of course Amtrak could set the TIME of the transfer back to the station. BUT, knowing that the family had to be back at the station to catch the morning train , WHY would Amtrak be so rigid about the noon departure from the hotel back to CUS ----IF they had tickets for a morning train?
I need a "heads-up" on this because I am arriving into Chicago on the Chief on September 11th. Posters have stated that Amtrak uses this hotel during "peak" seasons when downtown hotels are too expensive.
If I discover this hotel really is quite undesireable , I will opt to dump it and pay for my own hotel stay if I am placed in the over-nite situation.
And over 25 miles out of town ? What is Amtrak thinking !!
Also, again, I am curious about just HOW Amtrak planned to take her family to the Homewood hotel. Evidently it was NOT by cab. If it was , they could have easily arranged to get back to CUS early enough the next morning to catch the train they needed. If it was not by cab, then of course Amtrak could set the TIME of the transfer back to the station. BUT, knowing that the family had to be back at the station to catch the morning train , WHY would Amtrak be so rigid about the noon departure from the hotel back to CUS ----IF they had tickets for a morning train?
RailFanLNK
Conductor
I have quietly in my "rookie" railroading head have thought of being "stuck" in CHI as a "free" way to get one night in the city at a budget cost. But after reading this story and thread, I no longer think of that. I had always been under the impression that missed pax would be in "Chicago" and not some distant and "dodgy" suburb. I had thought of taking the CZ and the CL (I believe it still has a 7:05 departure) to somewhere out east, but I really think it would be easier to fork out my $30 for a night at the HI Chicago Hostel. The thing that really hurts here is this: I am a cheerleader of Amtrak now of major proportions. I have a small group of friends that wants to take the CZ to GSC this March. I called last Friday to inquire about "group rates" but got a little uneasy being the "chaperone" as the CSR called it and having it (the cost) put all on my credit card. Then throw in the attitude of the Dining Car on 7/19 that I experienced, and I don't want 20+ friends of mine experiencing this. Every time I start getting a little brazen on wanting to turn a bunch of friends on to Amtrak, a thread like this comes up and I get a tad fearful. I have learned and even tell my friends it can be a little "punk rock" (a term of anything can happen, cool or crappy) and a lil' "seat of the pants" travel, and most of my friends kinda dig that since WE all have been treated so poorly by the airlines or have sat in our cars on jampacked highways with no where to go. My airline trip from hell wasn't as bad as this story, but similar where I was left shaking my head going, "this can't be happening and there's gotta be a different way".
frj1983
OBS Chief
This is a question that bounces around in my head, time and time again:
Who is running Amtrak's HR Department? And what exactly are they looking for when they hire people?
Maybe OBS Gone Freight can fill us in on this. I sometimes get the feeling that Amtrak HR in CHicago, goes out into Union Station and grabs the first homeless people they see, clean them off, stuff them in a uniform, and stick 'em on trains with no "training!."
And knowing that you have to work face to face with other human beings (fellow employees or passengers) on a regular basis, why on earth would you apply for a job on Amtrak if you don't like working with other people (which is the general gist you get from many Amtrak employees)? It also seems to me that the HR department goes out of it's way to hire these kind of people. Maybe it's time to fire that entire Department and start over!
The one theme that I have been seeing in this and other threads dealing with Amtrak's operational and passenger service failures is that Amtrak Management needs to be reading these threads, because numerous reports seem to indicate that they have no clue what is happening "in the trenches". My suspicion is that the majority of the corporate mentality of Amtrak is utterly myopic and refuses to allow that anything beyond the NEC even exists, and that whatever happens in the rest of the network happens, period, and that HQ doesn't much concern itself about it. , Regardless, there needs to be a department at Amtrak that reads the contents of this board, and OTOL, and probably some others, and then reports directly to the president of the company to let him know what is ACTUALLY HAPPENING, as opposed to what his dysfunctional "hear-no-evil, see-no-evil, speak-no-evil, it-didn't-happen-on-my-watch" chain of command is telling him. This kind of (pardon my french) bullcrap could not continue to happen in a properly functioning organization.
I wonder if perhaps Rafi might inquire along these lines the next time he has occasion to converse with somebody in upper management, or if, the next time one of our members has occasion to report yet another abysmal Amtrak failure, those members might point out our existence and ask why Amtrak isn't monitoring and paying attention, since the same sort of failures seem to be recurring in an endless cycle.....?
I wonder if perhaps Rafi might inquire along these lines the next time he has occasion to converse with somebody in upper management, or if, the next time one of our members has occasion to report yet another abysmal Amtrak failure, those members might point out our existence and ask why Amtrak isn't monitoring and paying attention, since the same sort of failures seem to be recurring in an endless cycle.....?
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Maybe what Amtrak needs is an Ombudsman who is completely non-political, non-union, and non-higher management.
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had8ley
Engineer
Oh Everyday matters;
It's so easy for management to blow off 99.9% of your complaints with a form letter and a voucher why bother to try and fix something that will be funded all over again next year? It also looks like this trip analysis is going to indeed go to 5 pages or more. Even if management reads this I'm sure it hits the shredder for fear someone will get some good ideas on how to run Amtrak.
Windy City LSA
Service Attendant
Good questions.
Allow me to mention something I failed to in earlier responses. The original story concerned Amtrak station employees. I have been more so referencing OBS employees. Apples to oranges...with exception of required customer service skills. I can imagine working in the station is not easy, either. I've watched that program "Airline" or whatever it's called on A&E. There is just something about travel and things going wrong that sets people off.
But working ON the train...not going home to your bed and family at the end of the day, not to mention the dozen or so other unique difficulties...it's just crazy. If it weren't so bad, I'd still be there. Back to what Everydaymatters touched on...the bad employees out there...in most cases, they're jaded and TIRED. Many of them have been on the rails for 20+ years. In my humble opinion, they should call it a day. But in some cases, they're waiting for their retirement benefits to kick in or whatever it is. Anyway, I think it takes a VERY strong person...physically and emotionally to work in a friendly manner trip after trip. I don't think it's so much that Amtrak goes out of their way to hire bad people. It's more so that they tire with time, or the negativity of bad employees spreads like wildfire to those who are easily influenced. You just can't teach some people that when in a customer service/hospitality role, you have to be "on" ALL THE TIME! Late train, kid is sick at home, whatever. Not the problem of the passenger. Many employees have no concept of that, and the salary and benefits are too good to leave. So they stay and make everybody miserable.
I can give a quick summary of my experience with Amtrak's Chicago HR. It was not as easy as being homeless in Union Station.
It was actually quite a thourough process.*Responded to an ad for LSA's in June or July.
*Got a call in October. Attended an orientation. There were probably 50 people there. Only 2 left when asked if they could handle the assorted rigors of working on the train. Took a whole bunch of tests.
*Got a call. Had an interview. Took physical. I passed tests and was invited to classroom training.
*Began classroom training in November. Out of all those people at the orientation, only NINE of us passed the tests and made it to training. NINE.
*4 weeks of classroom training. 2 people don't make it after the 4 weeks...didn't pass the final test...asked to leave.
*Took 3 training trips, and had my first solo run in a lounge to KCY on Christmas Day. Then was FURLOUGHED after less than 2 months. By the time I resigned in June, I think there were 3 of us from that class still working. And 2 of those actually were offered and chose to move to other cities/crew bases during the winter furlough.
So, it's not an easy process. They don't accept just anybody. But once out there, I can see how *some* cynical, jaded veterans out there could pollute the minds of newcomers. Speaking for myself...what could Amtrak have done to make me stay??? Basically nothing. Thanks to the union and senority...that's pretty much what did me in. The extra board is a killer. At least it was for me. Had I been able to hold a regular corridor lounge run??? I'd still be there...selling sodas and heating your cinnamon rolls with a smile!
To Rail Rookie and anybody else more worried then ever after reading "bad" things...try not to worry about your future trips. These experiences from hell are NOT the norm. Be positive.
Everydaymatters
Engineer
This is so true. Case in point, a grocery store, part of a chain, every time a customer left the store, the store manager had some snide remark to say. All the clerks chimed in with bad comments about the customers. The store, in a very well populated area, had few customers.
Another store, same chain in less populated area, always had plenty of customers. Clerks were always cheery and helpful. Everyone was happy.
This is true. I observed the first store in Chicago, the 2nd in Crystal Lake, Illinois.
It just seems so simple. Get rid of the bad ones, keep the good ones. Maybe it's just too simple for Amtrak's powers-that-be to understand.
About the hiring process, I know it's tough. Not from personal experience, but a couple of people I know. One was a crew chief back when they had them. He is still with Amtrak. The other one dropped out because he didn't like being away from his family for prolonged periods of time, so he never hired on. The first one told the 2nd one that the passengers are "always mad and always yelling" at the attendants. It would really take nerves of steel to have to put up with that day to day.
However, if all of the attendants on a train or in the station started out on the right foot with a cheery attitude, you would definitely see a difference in the attitude of the passengers. It's a given. It would definitely work.
Windy City, you couldn't have fought the battle alone. One person can't do it. It takes an overwhelming majority to change attitudes.
A
Amtrak OBS Employee gone freight
Guest
Well "everydaymatters,"
Out of coincidence your forum ID name sums it all up in my situation! I was a manager in my former career prior to my tenure at Amtrak. I won't go into detail, but the differences were amazing between the two employers! Windy City pretty much covers the details of the OBS department (where I was employed as well hence my forum name of course). It was a great job! But as Windy City states in her posting (where I believe she covers this in the term "unique difficulties"), is this job starts to bring you down after time! There is very little support for the employees. I personally felt I had no way of providing certain customer services to retain customers when problems arose. For example when there is equipment that doesn't work (we'll use a faulty A/C for example since that has been on the boards recently), I can move an affected passenger to another coach! But what about a whole carload of them and no extra coach? And farthermore, the same problem crops up again and again over the years! That's just one problem! You can read these boards and see all the stuff about equipment problems. There again, that is just one issue the company has! Now let's combine all of Amtrak's issues as a company in the big picture. When we look at the big picture (with a management mindset such as mine), we see the direct results of how this company has been MANAGED!!!!
So everydaymatters,
for me "ever day matters!" Your forum name says it all in this instance! Amtrak furloughed me due to the SDS deal in 2006. I am at a freight railroad, now. I have no plans to leave it! It is managed properly (for the most part), and the difference is clear. Sadly, Amtrak has lost me! I didn't chose the furlough part. I did chose not to exercise my seniorty to chase the job. It wasn't worth it any longer. Things would turn out the same in the long run, so I left in good terms under furloughed status. I won't return at recall. When upper management gets their act together , then things will improve! I'll get off the soapbox, now.
OBS gone freight....
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