Amtrak's New Unfriendly Group Rates Policy

JoeBas said:

Exactly. You want to know who to blame? Tour operators who gobble up all the prime time seats months and months and months in advance, wait until the last second to try and sell them, and dump them for a refund weeks or even DAYS before the train actually travels; seats which then often go unsold, due to people not have time to plan to take the trip, because when they checked it was uber bucket or "Sold out".

Keep strangling that golden goose, and eventually you kill it.

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If playing the blame game, the former Amtrak policies shared it with tour operators for allowing it or even promoting it. The new policy is less tour-friendly, more everyday pax-friendly. A good thing.

Treating tour operators as a desirable class probably dates back many years, before and after Amtrak, when there was plenty of spare equipment and a vibrant extra board (staff) to press into service. The extra business added to their bottom lines. The equipment surplus is long gone, and the extra board is not what it used to be. It shouldn't be surprising that Amtrak finally saw that treating tour operators as desirable clients was a fool's errand.

As one of those everyday pax, it is nice to know that I won't be sharing as many train journeys with others who are part of a group movement. Many I've encountered in the past behaved as if they were the ultimate entitled class. And if a few more sleeping accommodations open up as a result of the new policy, that's a win-win.

Let the tour operators go the PV route if they want to survive. It's still possible, if they begin and end itineraries at a route terminus where switching equipment and yard space are available.

crabby_appleton1950 said:

Similarly, but different, there have been news stories here in Albuquerque of national chain ticket agencies buying up huge blocks of tickets for local concerts and plays to resell at higher prices, and thus blocking out individuals who are unable to buy just one or two tickets at what would be the regular price.

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You've come close to describing what is more commonly referred to as ticket scalping. The re-sale happens online, or even the night of the concert outdoors at grossly inflated pricing. That's illegal in a few places.

Skyline said:

You've come close to describing what is more commonly referred to as ticket scalping. The re-sale happens online, or even the night of the concert outdoors at grossly inflated pricing. That's illegal in a few places.

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Anti-scalper laws are generally written in a manner that mainly impacts small scale private resellers. For instance, an anti-scalping law will make it illegal to resell a ticket at more than a maximum permitted markup over the originally printed ticket price. Ticketmaster's reselling business (and other high-volume corporate scalpers) get around these simplistic laws by creating a new ticket with a new price. That way they can charge an unlimited markup with no fear of punishment or intervention.

I am faced with what I think is a situation where America by Rail possibly has quite a few bedrooms on hold on the California Zephyr. I was fortunate to get one of the last bedrooms, but I prefer a different one. I have phoned Amtrak many times. About 25% of the agents have informed me that there are rooms available on hold but they cannot book them. The other agents claim there is only one room left (which agrees with the website). I know there is an ABR tour that will be taking that train since I am on that tour (but making my own train reservations for the rail portion for many reasons). The tour has "limited space available" but is not sold out. I am making the assumption that ABR is holding rooms until their tour sells out. I am also assuming that when the tour sells out, ABR and Amtrak will release the unsold rooms. I am continuing to monitor Amtrak's website and ABR website with the hope that I will be able to change my room if rooms are released. I hope my assumptions are not erroneous and that I am not wasting my time.

pennyk said:

I am faced with what I think is a situation where America by Rail possibly has quite a few bedrooms on hold on the California Zephyr. I was fortunate to get one of the last bedrooms, but I prefer a different one. I have phoned Amtrak many times. About 25% of the agents have informed me that there are rooms available on hold but they cannot book them. The other agents claim there is only one room left (which agrees with the website). I know there is an ABR tour that will be taking that train since I am on that tour (but making my own train reservations for the rail portion for many reasons). The tour has "limited space available" but is not sold out. I am making the assumption that ABR is holding rooms until their tour sells out. I am also assuming that when the tour sells out, ABR and Amtrak will release the unsold rooms. I am continuing to monitor Amtrak's website and ABR website with the hope that I will be able to change my room if rooms are released. I hope my assumptions are not erroneous and that I am not wasting my time.

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Last October I encountered America by Rail on the Sunset Limited traveling between NOL and LAX. When I tried booking a bedroom ten months out, only one bedroom was available, bedroom A, which I took. I continually checked, via Amsnag and several phone calls, for availability and the bedrooms remained "sold". On board the train, indeed ABR was aboard. Turns out, Bedroom E was not occupied until Houston, the remaining bedrooms and many of the roomettes were occupied by ABR customers.

Tours can plug reservation availability. I guess the reason I've never been affected by it is I'm flexible with travel dates if I'm traveling Amtrack. I can see there is more probability of a problem if booking multiple routes of running into the problem. Throwing in a Airline ticket to make a schedule helps. But, Amtracks arrival times and on time record sometimes prohibit that

I will give you one quick scenario to show what issues a club or RR history group might face now with this policy. Again, I can see why individuals (esp. those who aren't part of a RR History group who likes to Amtrak excursions) might be happy with this new policy, but if you are part of a club or organization or non-profit who does Amtrak excursions and trips... this is a real damper.

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I see where you're coming from. However I don't see why groups can't live by the same trip planning constraints as everyone else, and having rooms and/or seats removed from inventory in large clusters only to be refunded later, creates a problem for Amtrak and every traveler who would have paid for that space fully intending to take the trip (or bear the cost of cancelling). So if the group, like some posters here (I am not one of them) can commit to a trip 10 months out, they can book the trip. If, like me, they can't.. then we have to live with what inventory is available within a shorter timeframe.

Michigan Mom said:

I will give you one quick scenario to show what issues a club or RR history group might face now with this policy. Again, I can see why individuals (esp. those who aren't part of a RR History group who likes to Amtrak excursions) might be happy with this new policy, but if you are part of a club or organization or non-profit who does Amtrak excursions and trips... this is a real damper.

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I see where you're coming from. However I don't see why groups can't live by the same trip planning constraints as everyone else, and having rooms and/or seats removed from inventory in large clusters only to be refunded later, creates a problem for Amtrak and every traveler who would have paid for that space fully intending to take the trip (or bear the cost of cancelling). So if the group, like some posters here (I am not one of them) can commit to a trip 10 months out, they can book the trip. If, like me, they can't.. then we have to live with what inventory is available within a shorter timeframe.

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Agree. There will always be some people who just won't be able to plan that far ahead (or prefer not to, even if they could) -- whether individuals, commercial tour clients, or non-profit club members. The "rules" should be applied to all, consistently. That way everyone has an equal, fair opportunity to book a seat or sleeper.

I realize the original comments in this thread were from a few years ago, but nonetheless, if a railroad club has been running the same trip for 30 years, then surely they ought to have some idea of how many people would go on a trip like that and book to that approximate level. If the general practice has been to book 300 seats and then hand half of them back right before departure because they didn't sell, well then, they ought to figure out how to better manage their own planning of these events rather than shutting out anyone else from booking while they do their own club thing.

I mean, I think context is important. A group that wants to travel in the middle of July is a different animal than one that wants to travel in February. Also, while groups should have a sense of their likely demand size (or at least, a floor on it), Amtrak should also have a sense of that as well (and when demand will likely manifest) and be more flexible on off-peak days or when they have equipment lying around (sort of akin to an airline swapping a 737 and a 757 on a pair of flights for a day or two).