We assume it was.....
New dining options (flex dining) effective October 1, 2019
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KiraPi
Train Attendant
It looked like a microwave, it sounded like a microwave, the food tasted like it came from a microwave. What's the difference?
At the risk of endlessly repeating myself, I have pointed out numerous times the fallacy of counting as revenue, what the sleeper passenger actually ordered/ate.
You pay for the potential meals when you buy the ticket. The amount credited to F&B is the revenue but it does not appear that this is being done.
You are correct that this can be an arbitrary amount, thus AMTRACK has control over the revenue side to show profit or loss.
Without showing the revenue side, no proper accounting or analysis of the F&B operations can ever be made.
Cutting costs w/o revenue methodology is smoke and mirrors!
Recent trip to Seattle on American Airlines for family business. Can't say that this meal was great but tasty and better than the boxed stuff now being pushed on the sleeper passengers. It was marinated Chicken breast, w Couscous salad, Artichoke olives with pita bread and hummus. Desert was ice cream with Baileys Irish Cream and your choice of toppings w whipped cream. Why cannot Amtrak at least meet this low standard?
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I think the affect this will have on the trains' future is overstated. Will some people stop riding as a result? Sure, but I would argue that some of those who do probably prefer air travel (or car travel) over rail travel anyway. To me, there is so much more to to the train travel experience than the dining car- and you can still hang out in the dining car and socialize if you want. While I enjoy going to the dining car and eating, for me the food itself has always been just ok (I am younger and never rode in the grand days of true dining car meals.) I'm disappointed but not surprised by the change, but so long as the food is at least ok I will deal with it. Don't get me wrong I'd like to see them make more improvements to this to make it more acceptable, but I won't stop riding the train over the food. There's simply too much more about riding the train I like (plus the fact I don't fly.) The Silver Star survived losing the dining car, so will these trains with flex dining. And many people have complained about the CONO and Cardinal food for years so for those two trains its basically status quo. I do think they need to look long and hard about what to do for the western trains because I don't think this particular model would do well there (and I think those trains would stand to lose more ridership if they severely downgraded the F*B.) I'm not convinced they are simply going to apply this model to the western trains - they may make some changes to try to "modernize" it and satisfy the mandate, but I'm pretty sure it will look differently than what they're doing here. I don't know that I believe the rumors that this is going system wide in a year and a half. Sure maybe some change will come in and a year and a half, but that doesn't mean they are simply going to copy and paste this over to the other trains. Rumors were saying that the Texas Eagle was one of the next trains to get downgraded, but that didn't happen.
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Yet.
Delta does some very good things on the main TCON pairs. I can't say that their offerings on some of the shorter pairs are amazing (and they sometimes run out of the better option, IMO) but they're better than nothing and I do legitimately enjoy getting a passable meal en route.
It says something, however, that at this point I can probably get a better meal RIC-JFK-MCO than RVR-ORL.
I'm reserving my final word about this until I've had a chance to sample the meal service on my trip to the Gathering. (I'l be riding the Capitol out to Chicago and the Cardinal back home, so I get to sample 2 breakfasts and 4 lunch/dinners).
However, for all the moaning about reheated (by whatever method) precooked food, everyone should remember that even in the "golden age" of, say 10 years ago, nearly all the food in the Amtrak dining was precooked, and a lot of it was really tasty (remember those lamb shanks! and the short ribs! all precooked and reheated.) They also has some real nasty failures, even with traditional dining. I particularly remember a "braised beef" entree on the Southwest Chief back in 2015 that was dry, chewy, and undercooked (for braised beef.)
And , in fact, for most popularly-priced land-based dining, the food is precooked and reheated. The only places where you can get food cooked to order is either in small restaurants where the staff is overworked and underpaid (my daughter works in one, so I know), or really fancy fine dining establishments where the price of a full meal, including sales tax (but not tip) can run you $50 -$100 per person. Preparing the food in the cramped quarters of a moving train to a captive audience would result in such dining costing considerably more than that to the customers. If you want to add white glove service, be prepared to pay even more.
Let's face it, you want fresh cooked food, and you're not willing to cook it yourself, be prepared to pay through the nose. And don't expect to find it on a train, at least right now under the current political climate. Food service involving fresh cooked food on a train cannot pay for itself, it needs to be cross- subsidized. Maybe the Canadian political system can tolerate that for VIA, but in today's USA it's not going to fly for Amtrak.
However, for all the moaning about reheated (by whatever method) precooked food, everyone should remember that even in the "golden age" of, say 10 years ago, nearly all the food in the Amtrak dining was precooked, and a lot of it was really tasty (remember those lamb shanks! and the short ribs! all precooked and reheated.) They also has some real nasty failures, even with traditional dining. I particularly remember a "braised beef" entree on the Southwest Chief back in 2015 that was dry, chewy, and undercooked (for braised beef.)
And , in fact, for most popularly-priced land-based dining, the food is precooked and reheated. The only places where you can get food cooked to order is either in small restaurants where the staff is overworked and underpaid (my daughter works in one, so I know), or really fancy fine dining establishments where the price of a full meal, including sales tax (but not tip) can run you $50 -$100 per person. Preparing the food in the cramped quarters of a moving train to a captive audience would result in such dining costing considerably more than that to the customers. If you want to add white glove service, be prepared to pay even more.
Let's face it, you want fresh cooked food, and you're not willing to cook it yourself, be prepared to pay through the nose. And don't expect to find it on a train, at least right now under the current political climate. Food service involving fresh cooked food on a train cannot pay for itself, it needs to be cross- subsidized. Maybe the Canadian political system can tolerate that for VIA, but in today's USA it's not going to fly for Amtrak.
jis
Permanent Way Inspector
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Devil's Advocate
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Why would people who prefer air travel choose Amtrak LD service in the first place?
When did "cause my daughter says so" become some sort of mike drop? I eat at "fancy" made-to-order restaurants all the time but the price per person almost never reaches $50+ unless we're drinking. Where I live those kinds of prices are generally limited to tourist traps and date night steak houses.
So in your view our choices are limited to cheap pantry/freezer meals or white glove service with nothing in between?
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I think there are a lot of people that like the train but also like the conveniences of flying (and I'm sure many people enjoy both equally for different reasons) and for some maybe the food changes make the train no longer worth it, and that's fine. But I guess my argument is, was the food really that great anyway where these changes negate all the other benefits of taking the train? (More relaxing trip, ability to get up and walk around wherever, scenery, comfort of a sleeper, etc.) And I don't think boycotting really does anything when you have a leadership that wouldn't mind just discontinuing the trains anyway. Just to clarify, I don't agree with the changes and I think the old model was better. But at the same time I don't necessarily think the end is coming for these trains either.
Winecliff Station
Service Attendant
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck and tastes like a duck.....of course this is not to suggest Amtrak will ever be serving duck.
Goose!
Ryan
Court Jester
Once we lived in a world where facts mattered. Now, perhaps not so much.
Dakota 400
Engineer
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I have enjoyed duck entrees. I once ordered goose. My digestive system was in full rebellion that night!
Interesting perspective from a millennial, not used to long-distance trains, etc. Fairly objective considering. Although there seems to be a debate whether they use convection ovens or microwaves, the writer seemed fairly certain. I'm starting to think both are in play. Those breakfast sandwiches are sold in large boxes by Costco and they are definitely microwaved - no heated oven option of any kind. Perhaps the dinner entrees are actually heated...
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I thought I had heard they were currently using a microwave and the plan was eventually overhaul the Viewliner 2 diners and replace the microwaves with large convection ovens. It seems like from Amtrak's letter to RPA that the process to install the ovens has been stalled, but that the executive leadership was going to push to get it done.
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My biggest concern ridership wise is that a lot of the articles that have come out have actually incorrectly stated that Amtrak is removing the dining cars everywhere (And some even make it sound like they aren't even offering anything except the café car.) Many do not clarify that the two night trains are not affected by this change. I think the two night trains stand to lose a lot more ridership with a downgrade like that than do the single nights. I think the ratios between experiential travelers and people using the train for basic travel purposes varies between the two with the two night trains getting more of the former. I think Amtrak should be correcting some of these articles that haven't correctly reported the trains. I have seen where Peter Wilander's office has requested certain media stories to correct the record, but I think they need to address all of them.
Mystic River Dragon
Engineer
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I just read something titled "Amtrak's dining cars sad decline."
The interesting thing about it is not the content, but where it appeared.
The writer talks about the same things some of us do. She thinks, as some of us here do, that the real goal is to make Amtrak travel such a miserable experience that Congress will get rid of Amtrak completely. She also says that she had the food on a trip from New York to Chicago and that they were "barely edible microwave dinners."
Know where I read this? Not on a train discussion site, not online, not in a huge NYC or DC newspaper.
It was a printed letter to the editor in a local newspaper (Newark Star Ledger--not tiny, but not huge, either), where the letters are usually about local matters.
So the word is spreading deeper and farther than we could have imagined, and people who are not "train nuts" are sitting up and taking notice.
The interesting thing about it is not the content, but where it appeared.
The writer talks about the same things some of us do. She thinks, as some of us here do, that the real goal is to make Amtrak travel such a miserable experience that Congress will get rid of Amtrak completely. She also says that she had the food on a trip from New York to Chicago and that they were "barely edible microwave dinners."
Know where I read this? Not on a train discussion site, not online, not in a huge NYC or DC newspaper.
It was a printed letter to the editor in a local newspaper (Newark Star Ledger--not tiny, but not huge, either), where the letters are usually about local matters.
So the word is spreading deeper and farther than we could have imagined, and people who are not "train nuts" are sitting up and taking notice.
Devil's Advocate
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If Amtrak's food exhibits unacceptable taste or texture that's mostly down to poor quality ingredients, extended storage, and/or sloppy preparation. Microwaves aren't perfect but their fundamental limitations are well understood and commercial versions are in common use.
Cho Cho Charlie
Engineer
As I mentioned numerous times, who do publically traded cruise lines do it? What accounting magic do they employ, to divvy up cabin fares paid by passengers, to show their stockholders (their equivalent to Congress for Amtrak) a profitable revenue stream for their "free/included" Main Dining Room?
Rail Freak
Engineer
You mean to "Tell the Truth", reminds me of an old TV Game Show! LOL
seat38a
Engineer
Well lets start with labor, which is substantially cheaper on a cruise than on Amtrak. Do you really need number breakdowns when your paying base salaries as $50/month for a room steward (Straight from his mouth) and then making up the rest by taking out involuntary tips on your room charge of the customers?
On 20, the Crescent coming into Culpepper Va about 21/2 hrs late. At 7 am they were out of the breakfast sandwiches (the attendant called it Jimmy Dean. Said they only had one and the guy in front of me got it She said the people boarding in New Orleans ate them yesterday morning and there was no where to pick any more up before D.C.
Pretty pathetic. So far I'd say it's worse than the intro last year on the CL!
Pretty pathetic. So far I'd say it's worse than the intro last year on the CL!
chrsjrcj
OBS Chief
Cruise Ships that are not registered to the United States, do not have to follow US laws. Amtrak does.
