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zephyr17 said:
The narrow reservations window and not using the whole car are the result of destaffing the dining cars in a program put in place about 5 years ago. They don't have enough waiters to operate the whole car. Most of the time now you have an LSA plus one or two waiters. If I recall correctly when fully staffed it was at least 6 waiters, 3 for each side, plus the LSA. Someone may recall the precise number for a fully staffed Superliner diner.

The diners have been under attack for a long time.
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So, if they aren't using the whole dining car, why seat strangers together instead of letting each party have their own table?
 
Many times at breakfast I had my own table, but I always eat before the the rush and the wait list. Dinner, they casually seat one side of one half of the car when there is one server used. Then a half hour or so later they seat the other side. This allows the server to work four tables or 16 people per Reservation time.
 
All depends on the crew... I’ve had solo tables for all meal periods of the years.

I enjoy sitting with other passengers, but I don’t particularly care for sitting next to a stranger in a booth... it can be prettty awkward.
 
I guess I have traveled so much on Amtrak over the decades that sitting with other strangers or next to a stranger just seems normal to me and most everyone else I have met traveling. I have enjoyed some great conversations with people from different part of the US as well as the World. I have sat with three others traveling on business as I usually am which has also developed into great conversations that occasionally even continued into the Lounge or Sightseer.
 
crescent-zephyr said:
I enjoy sitting with other passengers, but I don’t particularly care for sitting next to a stranger in a booth... it can be prettty awkward.
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Maybe the most "interesting" experience I have had was on the Southbound Silver Meteor in two days after Christmas last year. I was seated in a booth with a gentleman and two young twin sons, about 10 years old. (The Father sat opposite to me.) My initial thought was that I could converse with the boys' Father OK, but what about the twins? It turned out to be a very interesting and engaging experience for all 4 of us. This was the first train trip for the boys; the Father had traveled by Amtrak beforem but not extensively. They were headed to Orlando for Disney World. Since Dinner was shortly after we left WAS, the boys were still excited. They were in Coach and I had a Sleeper and all three of them were interested in learning about my accommodations. I shared my Amtrak and Disney World experiences with them. The boys talked about sports and school (as a retired teacher, that conversation resonated with me). It was pleasant start to my Amtrak trip!

I remain amazed as to how often these casual contacts with fellow passengers turn out to be very pleasant and memorable moments on my trips.
 
dlagrua said:
One employee reheats pre-prepared meals in a convection oven and serves them. I was told by RPA that this was the model that Anderson wants for the Eastern trains. Large convection ovens were purchased for the Viewliner diners but AFAIK have not been installed as yet.
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Isn't this the model for meal service that the airlines use? Given Anderson's past connection with Delta, that model may eventually benefit dining on Amtrak. I have enjoyed some very satisfactory meals on Delta's Business Class flights. Michelin Star quality? Of course, not. But, still quite good.
 
I didn’t mean to sound antisocial as though I wouldn’t enjoy the chance to meet new people, in fact I like sitting with new people on cruise ships where there is room to breathe. The close quarters in what I’ve seen in pictures of the dining car seems a bit awkward. It almost seems like the tables are close enough to meet people without sitting at the same table.
 
Winecliff Station said:
I didn’t mean to sound antisocial as though I wouldn’t enjoy the chance to meet new people, in fact I like sitting with new people on cruise ships where there is room to breathe. The close quarters in what I’ve seen in pictures of the dining car seems a bit awkward. It almost seems like the tables are close enough to meet people without sitting at the same table.
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There's no question that the booth seating is "tight" particularly with the person sitting next to you. (That's why I prefer an aisle seat.) Awkward, yes, it can be and have experienced that. Really, however, those situations have been rare.
 
Dakota 400 said:
Isn't this the model for meal service that the airlines use? Given Anderson's past connection with Delta, that model may eventually benefit dining on Amtrak. I have enjoyed some very satisfactory meals on Delta's Business Class flights. Michelin Star quality? Of course, not. But, still quite good.
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I agree 100%. If they are looking to cut costs, the Cardinal model is as low as they should go on Eastern trains. I had two meals (breakfast and dinner) this past Saturday and both were quite satisfactory. Any menu that includes Railroad French Toast (even the Cardinal’s heat and eat version) isn’t all bad. Add some healthier, fresher options to satisfy the younger crowd, and that would be at least a workable approach.
 
zephyr17 said:
The narrow reservations window and not using the whole car are the result of destaffing the dining cars in a program put in place about 5 years ago. They don't have enough waiters to operate the whole car. Most of the time now you have an LSA plus one or two waiters. If I recall correctly when fully staffed it was at least 6 waiters, 3 for each side, plus the LSA. Someone may recall the precise number for a fully staffed Superliner diner.

The diners have been under attack for a long time.
Click to expand...
There were never 6 waiters in a Superliner diner. Possibly four when they were first introduced, but never more than 3 in the last 20 years or so. You can very easily work a diner with one waiter on each side, if you handle reservations properly and have an effective kitchen staff.
 
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I do remember 4 servers working all the tables (every table was for revenue) on the CZ/DW/Pioneer in the early 1990's when the trains separated in SLC. I might be wrong, but I thought there were two Dining Cars also. Of course this was three trains, so a lot of passengers.
 
Lonestar648 said:
I do remember 4 servers working all the tables (every table was for revenue) on the CZ/DW/Pioneer in the early 1990's when the trains separated in SLC. I might be wrong, but I thought there were two Dining Cars also. Of course this was three trains, so a lot of passengers.
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When the three trains (5,25, and 35) all ran combined Chicago to Salt Lake City, you were correct...there were two diner's. The Chicago/Oakland diner known as the "Chicago Diner", and the Chicago/Los Angeles diner, known as the "L A Diner". The Pioneer diner ran Salt Lake City to Seattle...it was either a diner or SS Lounge (can't remember, but I don't think the Pioneer had both. Also can't recall if the Desert Wind picked up a SS Lounge in SLC...
During the years that the Pioneer split at Denver, and ran thru Wyoming, not sure of the consist...
 
railiner said:
When the three trains (5,25, and 35) all ran combined Chicago to Salt Lake City, you were correct...there were two diner's. The Chicago/Oakland diner known as the "Chicago Diner", and the Chicago/Los Angeles diner, known as the "L A Diner". The Pioneer diner ran Salt Lake City to Seattle...it was either a diner or SS Lounge (can't remember, but I don't think the Pioneer had both. Also can't recall if the Desert Wind picked up a SS Lounge in SLC...
During the years that the Pioneer split at Denver, and ran thru Wyoming, not sure of the consist...
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I can add to your info, having been on a CZ/Desert Wind that dropped the Pioneer in Denver. I don't believe there were two diners out of Chicago on that trip; the one we'd had dinner on the first night was still with us after the Pioneer split. The Desert Wind picked up a Santa Fe hi-level diner at SLC. Having some familiarity with Amtrak cuisine up to that point, I remember being surprised how different the menu and service model was on it. Not in a bad way - in fact it was really good, but unlike any other Amtrak train.

I'm guessing you might know too... was the 3-train split done at Ogden, UT, for awhile? That sticks in my mind from the trip prior to this one, although was in the middle of the night.
 
I remember being in one of the former Santa Fe El Capitan hi-level dining cars on the Southwest Limited in the 1970s. Does anyone know what the seating capacity of these diners was compared with the superliner diners?

I recall one very nice meal in particular and perhaps it was because I had two of them. It was a delicious chicken dinner with mashed potatoes with gravy and some peas. Very tasty. Just as I finished my meal, the waiter stopped by our table and said "Would one of you gentleman like another chicken dinner? We had an extra one sent up from the kitchen by mistake." Everyone else at our table declined but I snapped it up and enjoyed another one of those delicious dinners although it was a bit much to eat. A nice memory.
 
Rasputin said:
I remember being in one of the former Santa Fe El Capitan hi-level dining cars on the Southwest Limited in the 1970s. Does anyone know what the seating capacity of these diners was compared with the superliner diners?
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The Santa Fe Hi-Level dining cars seated 80 at a sitting...19 tables for four, and two tables for two. I've got a PDF of the (very good) Railway Age article on the (then) new Hi-Levels on the 1956 El Capitan page on my website.
 
ehbowen said:
The Santa Fe Hi-Level dining cars seated 80 at a sitting...19 tables for four, and two tables for two. I've got a PDF of the (very good) Railway Age article on the (then) new Hi-Levels on the 1956 El Capitan page on my website.
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Thanks. I remember that that diner was a busy place! The Southwest Limited had a separate lounge car (which happened to lose air conditioning during my July trip so it wasn't a great place to be). No part of the diner was used as a lounge.
 
jiml said:
I'm guessing you might know too... was the 3-train split done at Ogden, UT, for awhile? That sticks in my mind from the trip prior to this one, although was in the middle of the night.
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Yes. For a period the split was in Ogden before the Zephyr was moved from UP to D&RGW routing between Denver and Salt Lake City.

Originally the Pioneer was a Salt Lake City - Seattle train and the Desert Wind was an Ogden - Los Angeles train with cross platform connection with the San Francisco Zephyr at Ogden. When originally introduced the Pioneer was a Coach only train with an Am-Dinette (as it was called then). Unfortunately these days introducing a Coach only overnight train is considered to be too politically incorrect to even give a second thought to. The current philosophy seems to be trending towards "no train is better than a minimal train". :rolleyes:

Then around 1980 it got Sleeper while the Desert Wind was introduced as a Coach only train. Soon the Desert Wind also got a Sleeper and cross platform connection continued at Ogden. The through cars came in 1982 AFAIR. The splitting continued to be at Ogden until the aforementioned rerouting via D&RGW and renaming to California Zephyr.

Ironically even after the official route change the actual route continued to be via Wyoming due to a landslide and flood shutting down the D&RGW route for quite a while.

Personally, the first time I traveled on the Pioneer was with a cross platform change at Ogden in Coach (poor graduate student days, could not afford Sleeper!). On subsequent trips was with a split at Ogden on both the Pioneer and the Desert Wind, and then finally on the Desert Wind with split at Salt Lake City at the D&RGW depot. Of course there have been numerous trips on the California Zephyr since then.
 
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My mom and I rode the Pioneer from Centralia, WA to Portland back in 1988. I do remember having breakfast and dinner in the diner car. I can’t remember what we ate but I do remember it being good. At the time we were living in Centralia and I watched the Pioneer when I could. During this time until it’s demise the consist was typically an F40, sleeper, coach, coach-baggage, diner.
 
As I recall, the Diner also did double duty as Lounge/Cafe. It was good for railfans, since it used to be the last car of the train keeping the railfan window in the back available to railfans. I have many photos taken from that position as it ran through the Cache Junction area early in the morning. Beautiful up there.
 
When I rode on the Desert Wind, sometime in the late 80's, from LAX to CHI, I recall the dining car to be a diner/lounge from LAX to SLC. Our sleeper was a through sleeper, I think there was only one on the train, and it was the last car on the train. We had Bedroom A so it was really quick and easy to get to the rail fan window from the Bedroom!
 
jis said:
As I recall, the Diner also did double duty as Lounge/Cafe. It was good for railfans, since it used to be the last car of the train keeping the railfan window in the back available to railfans. I have many photos taken from that position as it ran through the Cache Junction area early in the morning. Beautiful up there.
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My children called it "The Tropical Diner" when we rode the Desert Wind in the 80's from Denver to Fullerton, as its A/C was anemic.
 
Anyone rememebr the lower level superliner lounge cars? I remember it being on the Texas Eagle when it used to split. One set would keep the diner/Lounge; one set would keep the coach/Lounge. I don’t remember a ssl car on the train back then.
 
This weekend I need to go into my large box of slides, negatives and prints from that late '70s early '80s era I have lots of photos from my train trips on the EB the SFZ the DW and the Pioneer back then.

I traveled several times round trip from New York to Portland OR after my Ph. D. adviser moved from Stony Brook to what was then Oregon Graduate Institute. The financial folks at Stony brook were quite puzzled as I repeatedly used funds from my fellowship to travel by train cross country. My excuse was that I could work on my dissertation on the way to visit my adviser and back. Being the bureaucracy that they were, they were quite happy as long as I submitted several sentences of explanation. I am not sure anyone actually ever read it. Either way they did not seem to care what I did with my fellowship grant travel money as long as I submitted legitimate receipts to document the expenditure for travel to a reasonable location for a reasonable reason. They were just a conduit.
 

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