Chief #3 (passengers instructed to leave SSL after Fullerton)

Unbelievable, customers told that after Fullerton they must ...
vacate sslounge and return to their rooms/ seats and remain there.....so crew can clean the car before arrival into LA...

Isn't Fullerton close to LA? This sounds like a classic case of employees being under pressure to clean and turn the equipment quickly. If I didn't already know an airline guy was in charge this would be a major clue!

ref5035 said:

Unbelievable, customers told that after Fullerton they MUST ...
VACATE sslounge and return to their rooms/ seats and remain there.....so crew can clean the car before arrival into LA...

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Hadn't ridden the SW Chief just yet (down the road I hope to), but I experienced the same thing on a different Amtrak long distance train, not long ago. Which was right after Glenview on #8/28(eastbound Empire Builder), they made everyone in the Sightseer Lounge move back to their original seat. Along with close down the cafe car, on the lower level. Not sure why they do that(probably to start the process of cleaning the train?), but they do.

They want people off the clock as quickly as possible.

Guess what ...were on time -!

Michigan Mom said:

Isn't Fullerton close to LA? This sounds like a classic case of employees being under pressure to clean and turn the equipment quickly. If I didn't already know an airline guy was in charge this would be a major clue!

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This has been going on since forever. But sure, blame Richard Anderson.

Trogdor said:

This has been going on since forever. But sure, blame Richard Anderson.

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If you're the guy at the top, the buck stops there, and he's getting paid plenty of them. I don't think my comment is going to ruin his day and I will always sympathize more with people doing the actual work as opposed to overpaid executives.

Michigan Mom said:

Isn't Fullerton close to LA? This sounds like a classic case of employees being under pressure to clean and turn the equipment quickly. If I didn't already know an airline guy was in charge this would be a major clue!

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Wrong! The staff is off the clock once the train stops at the terminal. Do expect them to keep working for free so you can hang out in the lounge?
Plus, everyone needs to be ready to detrain when the train arrives.

Uh... who did you mean to direct this to? I never expect anyone to work for free and I don't even use the lounges.

Michigan Mom said:

If you're the guy at the top, the buck stops there, and he's getting paid plenty of them. I don't think my comment is going to ruin his day and I will always sympathize more with people doing the actual work as opposed to overpaid executives.

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But your original comment still makes no sense at all.

If I didn't already know an airline guy was in charge this would be a major clue!

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So, when this exact same thing was happening under Warrington, Gunn, Kummant, and Boardman, was that a major clue than an "airline guy" was in charge? What does the lounge car closing 30-60 minutes before arrival at the terminal (which, again, has been happening since forever) have to do with an "airline guy" being in charge?

I don’t really think it’s that big of a deal to have to leave the lounge car at that point. It’s about 30 to 40 minutes out which is standard practice on all long distance trains. On planes the last 30 minutes of a flight you are guaranteed to be in your seat with the seatbelt on to prepare for landing. At least on the train we are still able to move around.

A bigger problem is closing the cafe and dining cars often well over an hour ahead of the end of the run, which leaves a lot of potential revenue uncollected as well as inconveniencing passengers. Ditto failing to open the cafe and dining cars until long after the train leaves its originating station.

Sleeping car attendants also rush to have the rooms made up prior to arrival at the terminating station. We've been asked, on more than one occasion, to sit in a different room while ours was being made up.

PVD said:

They want people off the clock as quickly as possible.

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The clock stops at route termination regardless of what the OBS are doing or not doing.

AmtrakBlue said:

WRONG! The staff is off the clock once the train stops at the terminal. Do expect them to keep working for free so you can hang out in the lounge?
Plus, everyone needs to be ready to detrain when the train arrives.

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No need to shout. This is not a case of customers trying to force anyone to work off the clock. It's a case of employees agreeing to a contract that says the clock stops at route termination and then doing everything they can to ensure they don't work a minute more than necessary. The customers are not a party to the contract and are treated like they're simply in the way. Some customers are unhappy with this situation.

After you stop getting paid no routine work is necessary. In most cases, for hourly wage earners, it would be illegal to expect workers to work without pay. Customers may have a legitimate beef. Lack of awareness of the situation fuels that. If Amtrak wanted to pay people to work after the route terminates they could. The sad truth is that if the train is expected to be delivered in a certain condition at routes end, the passengers may well be in the way.

Realistically with 30 minutes to go, how many people are really going to want to pay amtrak prices for a drink and a microwaved snack when they can grab a drink and some real food around the station? So if you expect the lounge and cafe to remain open until arrival at the end station then you need to expect to pay for it in increased fares as Amtrak will need to cover the increased wage bill somehow.

Finally by making passengers return to their seats its also ensuring that passengers start packing their belongings up and are ready to deboard at the end, reducing left luggage and the hassle of returning it to passengers, reducing the oportunity of theft of belongings and limiting stragglers who will sit in the lounge right until the very end if they can then return to original seat only once the train is at a standstill then spend the next 10 minutes repacking their bags.

From a business perspective it makes absolute sense to close the lounge early, if it was communicated correctly and customers expectations managed (such as announcements 30 minutes before closure, signs on the walls of the lounge explaining that it closes at Fullerton and even notifications on the website etc then the vast majority of customers wouldnt have an issue and accept this as the norm.

Id go one further and advise all sleeper passengers that they need to vacate their rooms 30 minutes before arrival and offer them a seat in the diner, after all what other use will it have in 18 months?

PVD said:

After you stop getting paid no routine work is necessary. In most cases, for hourly wage earners, it would be illegal to expect workers to work without pay. Customers may have a legitimate beef. Lack of awareness of the situation fuels that. If Amtrak wanted to pay people to work after the route terminates they could. The sad truth is that if the train is expected to be delivered in a certain condition at routes end, the passengers may well be in the way.

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If a ratified contract states that the pay clock stops at route termination and that the OBS must not leave the train until it is ready for the next departure then you end up with a perfectly legal but unfortunate situation we have today. Passengers are "in the way" because Amtrak and the union came to a labor agreement that treats end route customers like an annoyance to be moved about and shooed away. I've been on several trains where the last meal was extremely limited and dining service was closed hours before arrival. It's not the end of the world but it's also a legitimate annoyance. The fact that this has been going on for a long time does little to make Amtrak look better to new and infrequent passengers.

I don't think regular riders like it either, but unless Amtrak decides to allow for after arrival work on the clock, it isn't going to change. There is no customer centered solution to the situation that doesn't involve Amtrak spending money it doesn't want to spend.

What is it exactly that the crew has to do in the SSL prior to arrival? If they closed the downstairs cafe and collected all trash why can't the passengers stay in the lounge upstairs? Presumably coach cleaners work on the whole train when it's serviced so any debris left would be their responsibility. Sitting in the lounge as you come into a big city is always interesting and it would be nice to remain there until arrival at the station.

tricia said:

A bigger problem is closing the cafe and dining cars often well over an hour ahead of the end of the run, which leaves a lot of potential revenue uncollected as well as inconveniencing passengers. Ditto failing to open the cafe and dining cars until long after the train leaves its originating station.

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For the former, in a way I see why the diner closes when it does. So that staff can start to clean things down, and get the dining car ready to be reused again when it gets to that train's terminating station. And for certain train sets, IIRC they are turned around to go out in the other direction later in the day. When I rode the Empire Builder going east(#8/28) to Chicago, they did last call for lunch meals in the dining car in Columbus. Which to me seemed fine, plus they didn't force me off the dining car despite that I was finishing my lunch meal there just before we hit Milwaukee.

I think you have a legitimate argument on the cafe car and the dining car going outbound, since occasionally the crew has taken a little long to open those things up on outbound trains after the originating station. In most cases though, the opening time hasn't bothered me.

Finally like another person said, the practice of closing the cafe car 1 stop before the final arriving terminal station doesn't bother me. And as like one person said, *one can find better food (vs. typical cafe food) outside the train, and for a better price often, if he/she waits till the train's terminating station.

*- I can see how this practice may be annoying for say someone boarding at the last station before a train becomes discharge only, AND if a train is running late enough that one doesn't have time to find a meal in _____ city, due to the fact one may immediately have to turn around and board an outbound Amtrak train.

Palmland said:

What is it exactly that the crew has to do in the SSL prior to arrival? If they closed the downstairs cafe and collected all trash why can't the passengers stay in the lounge upstairs? Presumably coach cleaners work on the whole train when it's serviced so any debris left would be their responsibility. Sitting in the lounge as you come into a big city is always interesting and it would be nice to remain there until arrival at the station.

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I'd imagine they would need to do a stock take and also cash up the tills and balance the books? Would you want to count the takings when passengers are milling around? Yes they might be upstairs but there's always one who will nip down stairs with the pretence of wanting to use the toilets

30 minutes seams reasonable to me. Gives employees time to get things in order, helps clear passageways. Crew members can flat be rude coming down the isle with there gear. I've noticed passengers that are barely mobile throughout the trip are hot footing it to the door to get off the minute the train stops. Cruise ships are the worst, leave your room with all your luggage at 8 am and depending on customs may have to wait 3 hrs to depart

They close the cafe on the Surfliner as well on the 500 series trains that terminate at LAUS once Fullerton is reached. Same thing was done last time when I was on the SWC. Make an announcement that they needed to prepare the train and clean things up.

so what does Bright line do ? Their trips right now are not very long!

I get the impression that the problem stems from closing the car and chasing people out more than the idea of cutting off sales,and possibly closing off access to the lower level. Single level trains are a different story, but I don't recall ever being chased from the car, even when the cafe was closed.