Suggestions on possible itinerary

A group of five of us senior ladies, all 60+, are planning our first train trip next May from St. Louis, MO to Springfield, MA. These are the routes we are looking at:

1) St. Louis to Chicago on 304 Lincoln Service, leaving St. Louis at 3:00 PM and arriving in Chicago at 8:40 PM. There is a 50 minute layover in Chicago before catching the 448 Lake Shore Limited which departs at 9:30 PM and arrives in Springfield, MA at 5:28 PM the following day. The departure is on a Saturday and arrival is on a Sunday.
Questions regarding this itinerary: Do you think there will be a problem with only 50 minutes between trains? There is a $21 per person difference in the price for reserved Coach vs Business Class. These seems like a no brainer to me, go for the Business Class, but none of us have ever been on a train so what do we know? Is it worth the difference in price? From what I have read, we would board from the Metropolitan Lounge if we purchase business class, is that correct?

2) On the return trip the following Friday, we would leave Springfield, MA at 5:55 AM to Washington, DC on the 141 Northeast Regional, arriving at 1:08 PM. There would be a 2:57 layover in DC, and we would catch the 29 Capitol Limited at 4:05 PM to Chicago, arriving the following day, Saturday, at 8:45 AM. There would be a 5 hour layover in Chicago, then take the 21 Texas Eagle to St. Louis, arriving at 7:21 PM Saturday.
Question: There is a difference of $55 dollars per person for Coach vs Business Class. Is there a special waiting room in DC for Business Class passengers?

What is the difference in seat size coach vs business class? I've read that in some of the business class the seating is 2+1 vs the 2+2 in coach. Does that apply to any of the trains listed above? Would there be any advantage to booking as round trip vs two one-way trips from St. Louis - Springfield, MA - St. Louis?

I'm sorry this post is so long. I'm just trying to get all this worked out so that I can tell the other ladies the situation! Thanks for any insights anyone is willing to share!

I cannot answer all of your questions since I am not familiar with the Lincoln Service. I do not know if a 50 minute layover in Chicago is sufficient. My guess is that it is not, but someone more familar with that connection hopefully will respond.

I always choose business class when offered. I, too, am a senior woman over 60.

Yes, the last I heard, the Chicago Metropolitan Lounge permits BC passengers in the lounge, however, the Club Acela in Washington DC does not.

There is no advantage to booking a round trip vs two one way trips. In fact, in my opinion, it is better to book two one way trips.

Jolycu, I suggest that you join Amtrak Unlimited as a member. It is free and easy. Currently, we are experiencing some "issues" with our guest forum and, if you register as a member, this thread can be moved to the Amtrak Forum. In that location, I believe it will be more visible. Thank you.

In recent times there have been some specials that were only available on one-way trips.

My wife and I will be taking the SS to RGH in Sept. We were able to book on a "two-for-one" price for one-way trips. WHen I tried t for a round-trip, it would not allow the discount.

pennyk said:

Jolycu, I suggest that you join Amtrak Unlimited as a member. It is free and easy. Currently, we are experiencing some "issues" with our guest forum and, if you register as a member, this thread can be moved to the Amtrak Forum. In that location, I believe it will be more visible. Thank you.

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Thank you pennyk. I have joined as you suggested. How do I have this post moved to the Amtrak forum?

Qapla said:

In recent times there have been some specials that were only available on one-way trips.

My wife and I will be taking the SS to RGH in Sept. We were able to book on a "two-for-one" price for one-way trips. WHen I tried t for a round-trip, it would not allow the discount.

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Thank you for your response Qapla. I will watch for specials such as the one you mentioned.

For your stayover in Chicago on the return, if you're not already familiar with these I recommend Millennium Park - especially the popular Cloudgate, and the adjacent Art Institute (if that's your thing). It will likely be too early in the day, but the architectural river cruise is excellent.

I usually get emails from Amtrak letting me know what specials are new

Although, sometimes I read about them in the little news-bits I get with my Chrome browser on my Android phone

Thank you.

Charles said:

For your stayover in Chicago on the return, if you're not already familiar with these I recommend Millennium Park - especially the popular Cloudgate, and the adjacent Art Institute (if that's your thing). It will likely be too early in the day, but the architectural river cruise is excellent.

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(I am Jolycu). The question about business class being worth it is a moot point. They only offer business class on the St. Louis to Chicago section (less than 6 hours) and the Springfield, MA to DC section (a little over 7 hours.) Looks like reserved coach is the way to go!

Joyce L Cunningham said:

Thank you pennyk. I have joined as you suggested. How do I have this post moved to the Amtrak forum?

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I moved it for you. (only staff is able to move threads). Thanks for joining AU - Welcome

JLC said:

(I am Jolycu). The question about business class being worth it is a moot point. They only offer business class on the St. Louis to Chicago section (less than 6 hours) and the Springfield, MA to DC section (a little over 7 hours.) Looks like reserved coach is the way to go!

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Did a check on Amtrak's website for fares, and unfortunately this is right as far as business class goes(BC is not offered). Your only option for upgrading on the Lake Shore Limited train between Chicago and Boston(combined trains #48 and #448, make sure to book #448 as that's the section of the train that'll go on to Springfield and later Boston) besides a basic coach seat, would only be a Viewliner sleeper car. I've heard mixed reviews about contemporary dining(which replaced the dining car on LSL), so I'll allow those other posters to chime in on that. Supposedly as of late some new hot menu items were added, and I remember reading at first (about contemporary dining, hadn't ridden LSL since contemporary dining was added) contemporary only had cold menu items. Glad that isn't the case anymore!

And as for the reliability of the #304 to #48/448 connection, it seems it'd be pretty reliable, as since January 2019 those 2 trains (searched 48 btw, as I didn't get any results when I typed 448 in) only missed connecting 3% of the time, so I'd say this connection is pretty safe: https://juckins.net/amtrak_status/archive/html/connections.php?a_train_num=304&c_train_num=48&station=Chi&date_start=01/01/2019&date_end=07/28/2019&df1=1&df2=1&df3=1&df4=1&df5=1&df6=1&df7=1&buffer_mins=5&sort_dir=DESC&dfon=1

If you do this trip, hope it goes well for you! And of cours if you were worried about your chances of making a same day connection, you can take train 302. Remember you can use the Metropolitan Lounge in Chicago for free, EVEN if you aren't traveling in business or a sleeper beyond Chicago. Recently for example when I rode a sleeper on the Empire Builder back to Chicago, I quickly sat for a little in the Metropolitan Lounge despite that I wasn't traveling in business or sleeper beyond Chicago. Not sure how the sleeper and/or Acela lounge in DC works(on tye question if business class travelers can also use that for free, I'd be surprised if business class travelers couldn't use that lounge in DC for free) if you travel that way, as I've never tried using that lounge when I was in DC.

No BC Passengers in the East Coast Lounges( BOS/NYP/PHL/WAS), only Acela FC,Sleeping Car Passengers and Select +,Executive and Lounge Coupon Holders allowed.

Bob Dylan said:

No BC Passengers in the East Coast Lounges( BOS/NYP/PHL/WAS), only Acela FC,Sleeping Car Passengers and Select +,Executive and Lounge Coupon Holders allowed.

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Thanks, Bob Dylan. Didn't realize the rules are a tad different with Amtrak's east coast lounges(and that business class passengers on east coast can't use those lounges), vs. the Metropolitan Lounge in Chicago.

Thanks every one for your replies. So far we have decided to go with the original itinerary I posted above, with reserved coach seating. We wanted the 3:00 departure from St. Louis because we will be driving from Springfield, MO which will be about a four hour drive. Leaving at 3:00 in the afternoon, we wouldn't have to leave home at 2:00 in the morning to make sure we had plenty of time to find the station, get parked and get checked in.

I have posted another thread in the AGR forum about using points and companion fares if any of you are experienced and would like to chime in. This forum is becoming an invaluable resource for planning our travels!

The St Louis station can be a little hard to find if you aren't on highway 64. Long-term parking isn't usually a problem unless it's a holiday. It can be a bit of a walk to the station, so I wouldn't cut it too close.

dogbert617 said:

Thanks, Bob Dylan. Didn't realize the rules are a tad different with Amtrak's east coast lounges(and that business class passengers on east coast can't use those lounges), vs. the Metropolitan Lounge in Chicago.

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I didn't know that either, good to know (thanks, Bob). Almost every trip I 've taken to the east coast has involved a sleeper but the day will come when I take a BC trip up or down the east coast from WAS so now I'm prepared.

I have been doing more research and here is our plan:
We will go to St. Louis and spend the night before our trip at the Drury Inn at Union Station. (My sister-in-law stays with Drury and Choice Hotels for her job and has tons of points so most of our rooms on this trip will be free .) We'll take the 7:55 AM train to Chicago and then have a 7+ hour layover, then catch the train as above at 9:30 PM. Instead of Springfield, MA, we will be getting off the train at Albany-Rensselaer at 2:30 PM because we can rent a car at the train station there on Sunday. If we went to Springfield we wouldn't be able to get a car until Monday.

We will then drive an hour north to Lake George, NY and spend the night there, then on to Montreal the next morning. We will spend a day and night there, then off to Bar Harbor, ME for two days. After Bar Harbor, we'll drive down the coast to Dover, NH for a night, then back to Albany-Rensselaer, leaving there Friday evening at 7:00 PM.

Now, I have some other questions. I have applied for the Amtrak World MC that you get the 20,000 points on, but I haven't received it yet. That would be enough for two of our round trip fares, plus we could use the companion fare for a third and only pay for two fares out of pocket. If I were to book our fares now at the value rate and pay for them, could I cancel them for a refund then book again using the points and companion ticket once I receive those perks from Mastercard? I am worried that if I wait, I won't be able to get reservations. But if I buy now and cancel later, the fares may be higher then. And if I cancelled those reservations, is there any way I could guarantee that I could get them back?

One more question: Why is there such a disparity in prices for the same train? On the trip back, one shows 49 Lake Shore Limited for $601.85 and 449 Lake Shore Limited for $455.40. It's my understanding that it's the same train so why the different prices? This is for 4 adult share fares and 1 senior fare.

Thanks again for all your input. We are all really looking forward to this trip!

Sounds like a great trip.
If you make reservations and then cancel when you receive your points, you likely will be charged a penalty for cancellation. I am not sure if coach seats sell out on the Lake Shore Limited, however, I imagine the fare will increase over time. I am pretty sure that sleepers sell out and I know the fares increase.

I assume the price disparity betwen 49 and 449 is a result of supply and demand. It appears that 449 may be still in a low bucket whereas 449 is in a higher bucket. Yes, it is the same train as far as Albany.

It's been awhile since I started this thread, but we have finally locked down our itinerary. Someone on another thread posted that business class was again being offered on the LSL so I was able to upgrade our tickets to business class most of our trip.
1) Lincoln Service 300 business class, leaving St. Louis at 4:35 AM and arriving 10:00 AM Chicago. We'll have several hours to spend in Chicago and will take advantage of the Metropolitan Lounge.
2) LSL 448 business class, leaving Chicago at 9:30 PM, arriving Buffalo, NY 8:46 AM. Will be renting a van there, and among other things, will drive to Niagara Falls, NY and walk across the bridge to Canada. I think we'll all be ready for a walk after riding the train all night!

On the return trip:
1) LSL 449 business class, leaving Albany-Rensselaer NY at 7:05 PM and arriving Chicago at 9:50 AM. Will only have a few hours to kill so will probably spend it in the Metropolitan Lounge.
2) Texas Eagle 21 coach class, leaving Chicago at 1:45 PM and arriving St. Louis at 7:21 PM.

I had originally planned to use points to purchase a pack of lounge passes for use on the return trip (5,000 points), but the upgrade to business class from coach on LSL 449 for the five of us was only 5,347 points which was a much better use of the points!