New dining options (flex dining) effective October 1, 2019

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Are you saying all but one crew member will lose their jobs?
That is what I assume. That certainly appears to be what happened with the Lake Shore when it went to contemporary dining. (I assume it is the same with the Capitol but I haven't been that train.) Only one employee needed to run the (dining)(lounge)(table) car or whatever those multi-million dollar dining cars are called now.
 
That is what I assume. That certainly appears to be what happened with the Lake Shore when it went to contemporary dining. (I assume it is the same with the Capitol but I haven't been that train.) Only one employee needed to run the (dining)(lounge)(table) car or whatever those multi-million dollar dining cars are called now.

In my one and only experience with "contemporary dining", it seems to me more than one employee is needed to "prepare" the meals in a timely fashion. The employee I noticed seemed to be over her head.

There was actually a second employee but she seemed to be working the tables. I am not exactly sure what her function was as I did not stay in the car. I took my meal to my roomette.
 
In my one and only experience with "contemporary dining", it seems to me more than one employee is needed to "prepare" the meals in a timely fashion. The employee I noticed seemed to be over her head.

There was actually a second employee but she seemed to be working the tables. I am not exactly sure what her function was as I did not stay in the car. I took my meal to my roomette.
On our trip on the Lake Shore in May, there seemed to be only one person doing it all. This didn't seem to be a problem at breakfast because the patronage was spread out but at lunch everyone seemed to come at once and she was a bit overwhelmed.
 
I mentioned this in one of the other threads regarding rude Amtrak staff. Many on here have been advocating through the years to call in and complain about the staff, food etc in the dining car, well I'm sure Anderson will eventually come out and use those complaints as justification for all of this. People used to complain about the free food in domestic coach and now those are gone. The airlines justified it by saying people complained that the food sucked.

Generally complaining in corporate America, will not improve things, just gives it an excuse to save cost by cutting it.

Complaint: Your staff are rude and apathetic.
Anderson: Due to high number of complaints over the years regarding our dining car staff, we decided eliminate any interaction with the dining car staff going forward. blah blah blah.

Complaint: The lounge lizards from coach and crew are taking up all the space in the cafe car.
Anderson: Due to the high number of complaints from sleeping car passengers that our lounge car is overcrowded, we decided to dedicate the dining car 100% for our sleeping car passengers. No coach passengers allowed.

Complaint: Your dining car prices are too high for coach passengers.
Anderson: No worries, we will no longer have a dining car for the price conscious passengers to worry about.

Etc etc etc.
You forgot some:
Complaint: Your staff use multiple tables in the cafe car.
Anderson: Due to high number of complaints about this, we're reducing staff by eliminating dining personnel. We removed station agents already so they don't apply for those kind of positions on the trains.

Complaint: Your cafe food always runs out.
Anderson: We're considering cutting back on cafe hours which will allow us to eliminate those employee slots and have car attendants do that job on a shorter part-time basis. This way fewer hours mean fewer items will be sold so we don't run out of food. If there are enough complaints about the reduced hours, we'll consider removing the cafe car altogether. Thanks for the great idea.

Complaint: Only a few stations have baggage handling.
Anderson: We plan to eliminate baggage handling completely and thus eliminate the half-empty baggage cars as well as the remainder of the station agents. We might also be able to eliminate some conductor positions since they won't have to worry about baggage or baggage cars. However, to increase the passenger experience, we'll let them load all their baggage at all stations but charge a small handling fee for the opportunity.
 
I can survive the contemporary dining on the CL at dinner-even it means an early dinner from something prepared in the station or a just-in-time pizza delivery in Chicago.

But breakfast was gross last year. Has that changed?
 
If that's true about Amtrak Cascades having some special items in its cafe car not served on other Amtrak regional trains, I'd love to see the cafe car menu for that train. Now makes me wonder if i.e. Pacific Surfliner has any special cafe car food items served only on that train, not available on other Amtrak regional(or long distance) trains?

From the Amtrak Cascades website:
https://www.amtrakcascades.com/sites/default/files/AmtrakCascadesBistromenu_0.pdf

From the Pacific Surfliner website:
https://blog.pacificsurfliner.com/2...es-salads-and-bistro-boxes-available-onboard/

.. .. .. and the PS article was illustrated with a nice photo of one of the Superliners that they've scored.
 
From the Amtrak Cascades website:
https://www.amtrakcascades.com/sites/default/files/AmtrakCascadesBistromenu_0.pdf

From the Pacific Surfliner website:
https://blog.pacificsurfliner.com/2...es-salads-and-bistro-boxes-available-onboard/

.. .. .. and the PS article was illustrated with a nice photo of one of the Superliners that they've scored.

Looking at that page for Pacific Surfliner, I found this pdf of its cafe car menu(and interesting you can buy LA or San Diego transit passes in that cafe area): https://pacificsurfliner.files.word...afe_wall-menu_16.75x12.6875_fnl_preview-1.pdf

I wish the Pacific Surfliner menu, had more info on some of the unique items only served on that train. Plus I REALLY liked seeing that one, for the Cascades. That seems so much better, than the cafe car menus I've seen for Illinois regional Amtrak trains, and as I vaguely remember Michigan trains. Been a couple of years since I last rode a Michigan Amtrak train, so dunno if Amtrak and Michigan DOT have done any minor efforts to improve its cafe car menu(probably not I suspect).

However, that detail on Cascades' menu was weird about it only accepting Canadian bills, but not coins. Really? Seems weird you can't use both bills and coins, to pay for purchases. Though I assume a Canadian passenger would be fine, as long as they had some sort of card on them to pay for purchases.
 
Looking at that page for Pacific Surfliner, I found this pdf of its cafe car menu(and interesting you can buy LA or San Diego transit passes in that cafe area): https://pacificsurfliner.files.word...afe_wall-menu_16.75x12.6875_fnl_preview-1.pdf

I wish the Pacific Surfliner menu, had more info on some of the unique items only served on that train. Plus I REALLY liked seeing that one, for the Cascades. That seems so much better, than the cafe car menus I've seen for Illinois regional Amtrak trains, and as I vaguely remember Michigan trains. Been a couple of years since I last rode a Michigan Amtrak train, so dunno if Amtrak and Michigan DOT have done any minor efforts to improve its cafe car menu(probably not I suspect).

However, that detail on Cascades' menu was weird about it only accepting Canadian bills, but not coins. Really? Seems weird you can't use both bills and coins, to pay for purchases. Though I assume a Canadian passenger would be fine, as long as they had some sort of card on them to pay for purchases.
It's sad, but banks won't accept Canadian coins. When I was a kid they circulated widely in Oregon and Washington.

Right from the start (1973/75) of planning for the Cascades corridor we assumed good food. It came to me when I was in the diner on Train 11 on a state business trip, the sun was setting (on the original schedule) and we were rolling through some of the best food farmland in America and being served generic items and packaged stuff from elsewhere. I think everyone who worked on the idea after me thought of the same thing.
 
It's sad, but banks won't accept Canadian coins. When I was a kid they circulated widely in Oregon and Washington.

Right from the start (1973/75) of planning for the Cascades corridor we assumed good food. It came to me when I was in the diner on Train 11 on a state business trip, the sun was setting (on the original schedule) and we were rolling through some of the best food farmland in America and being served generic items and packaged stuff from elsewhere. I think everyone who worked on the idea after me thought of the same thing.

Gotcha, on Canadian coins. That's weird many banks choose not to accept those, vs. the Canadian bills! And one more thing I saw on that Pacific Surfliner food menu pdf after I first read it, when I reread it one more time before typing this new comment: that the Surfliner trains do serve beef and chicken tamales! I wish more Amtrak trains(national long distance and regional), would serve tamales. At least the long distance dining cars do have chilaquiles as a lunch menu item, which is nice! And yep I did order that, for one of my lunches while riding the Empire Builder recently. Sorry for the delay posting that trip report, I want to post some pics from my Cardinal trip on that thread, before I start typing my EB trip report.
 
I am still surprised CL lost its dining car sooner than some others. Always thought of CL as the flagship train of the east side of Mississippi, if you will, connecting DC to Chicago. Amtrak would want to make a good impression on politicians who might fancy a LD ride.
 
Looking at that page for Pacific Surfliner, I found this pdf of its cafe car menu(and interesting you can buy LA or San Diego transit passes in that cafe area): https://pacificsurfliner.files.word...afe_wall-menu_16.75x12.6875_fnl_preview-1.pdf

I wish the Pacific Surfliner menu, had more info on some of the unique items only served on that train. Plus I REALLY liked seeing that one, for the Cascades. That seems so much better, than the cafe car menus I've seen for Illinois regional Amtrak trains, and as I vaguely remember Michigan trains. Been a couple of years since I last rode a Michigan Amtrak train, so dunno if Amtrak and Michigan DOT have done any minor efforts to improve its cafe car menu(probably not I suspect).

However, that detail on Cascades' menu was weird about it only accepting Canadian bills, but not coins. Really? Seems weird you can't use both bills and coins, to pay for purchases. Though I assume a Canadian passenger would be fine, as long as they had some sort of card on them to pay for purchases.

Read their blog post: https://blog.pacificsurfliner.com/2...es-salads-and-bistro-boxes-available-onboard/

Accepting foreign bills but not coins is a common thing worldwide. Most currency exchanges won't accept coins and will not give you coins back. Most airport duty free will not give change back nor accept foreign coins as well.
 
I can survive the contemporary dining on the CL at dinner-even it means an early dinner from something prepared in the station or a just-in-time pizza delivery in Chicago.

But breakfast was gross last year. Has that changed?

Does contemporary dining include the option of getting something from the cafe car if you’re in a sleeper? It would make sense if the cost is comparable.
 
Does contemporary dining include the option of getting something from the cafe car if you’re in a sleeper? It would make sense if the cost is comparable.

I don’t think so - but maybe that will be a change as part of the announcement? Another way they could do it is just stock some of the same cafe car items (or similar items) in the diner for sleeper passengers that want lighter fare - then that would leave more food in the cafe car for the coach passengers who cannot get the box meals - especially as the crescent and silver meteor have lunch meals where someone may not want one of the larger box meals.
 
It's sad, but banks won't accept Canadian coins. When I was a kid they circulated widely in Oregon and Washington.
The same is true in reverse. It's not unusual to get US coins in change here for that reason - vendors try to unload them rather than taking them to the bank. With the American dollar currently much higher we tend to separate them and save them for travel. 10-12 years ago, when the currencies were last even, there was a lot of US change floating around.
 
Well I just noticed this on the Amtrak food page that would seem to confirm that the coach dining service is coming off the Auto Train....the question is - is it going to be replaced by anything - or will coach passengers have the option of purchasing a meal in the sleeper diner? On the link below notice under Auto Train coach menu: Available until January 14, 2020.

https://www.amtrak.com/dining-car

Perhaps they believe this cut will push the Auto Train to break even (by Amtrak accounting standards) and that the cut will make up in reduced expenses any ridership reductions...but I would only see that happening if this came with a reduction in coach fares and/or vehicle fares.
 
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It’s just the regular capitalist stand point. We can do more with less. It stinks but I don’t have any fight left in me to fight this. I’ve been fighting this administration tooth and nail since April of 2018 and I just can’t keep it up.

That’s the other big problem there are so many things to fight that we just get tired of fighting. I will email Richard and Stephen however.

While I can appreciate your feelings on the current regime, the food and beverage situation is not their doing. Your email should or to Congress, not Mr. Anderson or Mr. Gardner.

I'd like to remind people of post I made in the Amtrak's New "Fresh Choices" Dining on CL & LSL just over a year ago regarding Amtrak's food and beverage mandate and the FAST ACT of 2015

At the end of that post ,I stated

This law was passed in 2015 and it is 2018. They have two years to comply with this law as written.

It is now 2019. Unless their is relief from that provision, Amtrak's F&B services must cover its costs by December 4th, 2020.

To be clear, I consider Contemporary Service a downgrade. That is because unlike the Silver Star, the prices didn't drop for the sleepers. However, Contemporary Service might be the final stand to cover the costs of providing the service.

Unless we want all trains to end up like the Star or even worse, the Keystones, something needs to be done.
 
For the last two years I have tried to get RPA to engage on the matter of rescinding the FAST Act language with Congress, but to no avail. I don’t understand their logic. Apparently there is a firm belief that one can just pick and choose which part of the law one should expect to be implemented and act dismayed if the actual implementer chooses a part that you didn’t like, and the moan about it occasionally. [emoji53]
 
Regarding Canadian coinage:

In 2017, I stayed a few days in Toronto, took the Canadian to Vancouver, spent two days, then a Cascades to Seattle. As you can imagine, I accumulated a pocketful of Canadian loonies and toonies.

During my last day in Vancouver and on board the Cascades, I used those coins exclusively as cash tips (even if paying for food or anything else by CC). By the time I was at King Street Station, no longer an issue.
 
I’ve been around long enough to remember the early ‘80s where Amtrak went to airline style meals served in the diner. This is pretty bad, and the news out of Amtrak headquarters seems for all the world like a repeat of railroad announcements from the late ‘60s. Late trains, no dining cars, an ambivalence to the passenger. It would be creative discouragement if patronage if it weren’t right out of the Southern Pacific/Penn Central playbook. It’s like Anderson is telling Congress, “ok, if you make me run these trains, I’m going to make it as unpleasant as possible.” I try to look at things from Anderson’s perspective, and hope for the best, but I can’t. There are all manner of ways that better food service could have been delivered to all passengers, at lower cost, without making the experience miserable. We need to focus on keeping the trains running until new management comes in.
 
Does contemporary dining include the option of getting something from the cafe car if you’re in a sleeper? It would make sense if the cost is comparable.
I have a friend who periodically travels on the Boston section of the Lake Shore and he has been able to get a selection from the café car when he finds the contemporary selections unacceptable. It probably depends on the whims of the particular employees who are working that trip but maybe Amtrak has an actual policy on it.
 
Hi, y'all. I'm just so disappointed by this news that I finally took the time to write and send the following letter to Anderson, Gardner, and Coscia yesterday. I don't think it will make any difference, but at least I can feel like I'm doing something.

Dear Mr. Anderson, Mr. Gardner, Mr. Coscia and Amtrak Board of Directors

My name is Coby Potischman. I am a 17-year-old avid rail fan from New York City and a longtime advocate for Amtrak, as well as a member of the Rail Passenger Association. I am incredibly concerned and disheartened by all of the recent cuts to service and amenities, and particularly the decision to switch to “contemporary” boxed meals on all routes east of the Mississippi after October 1. As a longtime customer and passenger, I ask that you please read this through.

My family and I have spent thousands and thousands of dollars on Amtrak travel over the past several years, simply because it has been an incredibly enjoyable and unique way to travel. However, in recent years, the cuts and degradations to service have made our decision to take Amtrak, instead of the airlines, more and more difficult to justify.


Inter-city rail in the U.S. will never be able to compete with a plane in regard to speed. The only way for it to compete is for the overall experience and amenities to be superior.

We used to able to check baggage to and from the vast majority of stations. Now, not only are the majority of stations unstaffed, but such routes as the City of New Orleans, Texas Eagle, and Boston section of the Lake Shore Limited, have lost their baggage cars.

Until only a few years ago, on virtually all routes, we could get freshly cooked meals (the Cardinal being the only exception), served on actual glassware and China, with unique selections for each region and direction. Now, the handful of routes that do retain full-service dining cars all serve the exact same menu–quite tedious over the course of a long trip–while the ones without offer an extremely limited selection of low-quality meals, if anything at all.

I won’t even get into the cuts to Amtrak Guest Rewards, retirement of the Pacific Parlour Cars, increase in ticket prices, loss of flowers and snacks in the sleepers, discontinuation of the AAA and Veterans’ discount, reduction and increased restrictions of the Senior discount, and the tightening of the change and cancellation policy. These are smaller things, but they really do add up.

At a certain point, any person who has alternatives such as taking a plane, a car, or a bus, will no longer take Amtrak. Meanwhile, the people who either live in places served exclusively by the train, or who are physically unable to take other forms of transport, will be stuck not traveling at all, or suffering through an increasingly expensive, long and uncomfortable ride on the rails.

For Amtrak to do well, I believe it has to focus on what can make it best. I know that Food & Beverage service is mandated to turn a profit. However, that mandate was not written with the intent that the service itself has to make money; rather, those services are required to result in Amtrak as a whole being more profitable. Dining cars have always been loss leaders. The operation itself loses some amount of money, however, if it gets enough people to ride the train, it ends up paying for itself. Additionally, if need be, more money could simply be allocated from the sleepers to the diners, since the former is not required to turn a profit.

Every year, my family and I take a trip to South Florida to stay with my grandparents. We first took the train (in a Roomette) in 2011, and absolutely loved it. Since then, we have taken the Silver Service in at least one direction, almost every year, even after the Silver Star lost its dining car in 2015. The continued availability of the dining car on the Meteor is what has made it possible for us to continue taking the train for those trips.

Between these rides to Florida, multiple cross country trips, and countless other shorter day and overnight rides, we have spent more than 600 hours in sleepers, and many thousands of dollars on the tickets. And even after experiencing countless rude employees, numerous train cancellations, and even a derailment in Georgia last year, we have continued to ride and advocate for Amtrak.

But as prices increase, the meal service is degraded, checked baggage service becomes less and less available, and so on, justifying these trips has become incredibly difficult. We have tried the boxed meal service on the Lake Shore Limited multiple times, and I can say that if it is implemented on the Silver Meteor, we will no longer be able to take Amtrak to visit my grandparents. I have many friends who previously would take multiple massive cross country trips each year. But without full meal service on any route between Chicago and the East Coast, such trips are no longer feasible for them.

There aren’t just issues for angry railfans who want to keep the status quo at all costs.

These are issues for all the people with dietary restrictions, since limited menus and food prepared ahead of time offer little to no choice of ingredients, and are often extremely high in sugar.

These are issues for people who care about the environment; that don’t want to throw away cardboard boxes, plastic wrappers and bags, and disposable silverware at every meal.

These are issues for the people who can no longer afford their tickets, or who have to travel in coach, where they no longer have access to a dining car at all.

These are issues for people who live in remote towns without any other form of transit, who would see their rail service cut and/or replaced by buses, as you proposed this February.

These are issues for the people who take Amtrak to move, but can no longer bring nearly as many of their belongings due to the loss of checked baggage.

These are issues for the thousands of station employees and OBS staff that work hard to make passengers’ trips much more enjoyable, yet are losing their jobs.


Amtrak was not created with the goal of turning a profit. It was created when the private railroads of the time could NOT turn a profit, and the government saw the need to fund and retain adequate passenger rail service. In fact, Amtrak has explicitly stated in the “National Fact Sheets” of 2016, 2017, and 2018, that “No country in the world operates a passenger rail system without some form of public support for capital costs and/or operating expenses.”

I had been really hoping to take a very long round-trip coast to coast train trip before I head off to college next year. This would be a multi-thousand dollar trip with connections in six different cities (Chicago, Portland, Oregon, Emeryville/San Francisco, Los Angeles, Boston, and Portland, Maine), involving eight nights onboard, and sleeping accommodations the whole way. This would be the ultimate way for me to really see the country and enjoy the National Network while I still have the time to do so, before this new chapter of my life.

Yet as a vegetarian, if more of these routes lose their dining service, it would legitimately be impossible to spend that much time onboard with that sort of meal selection. And as I said earlier, I know many people who are in a similar position. It’s not just about comfort or overall luxury; this sort of service simply isn’t doable for many people and serves to make train travel completely obsolete.

I hope you consider these points in your work to improve Amtrak.

Thank you so much for reading.

- Coby Potischman
 
I have a friend who periodically travels on the Boston section of the Lake Shore and he has been able to get a selection from the café car when he finds the contemporary selections unacceptable. It probably depends on the whims of the particular employees who are working that trip but maybe Amtrak has an actual policy on it.

There is a specific policy and a specific situation that allows swapping the contemporary meals for cafe car food. If that condition isn't met, and someone is doing it anyway (which is easy enough to do in my estimation), well I suppose you can chalk that up to "making rules up as they go along."
 
Hi, y'all. I'm just so disappointed by this news that I finally took the time to write and send the following letter to Anderson, Gardner, and Coscia yesterday. I don't think it will make any difference, but at least I can feel like I'm doing something.

Hey you!!! It's good to see you back in the saddle. I appreciate your letter but I suspect it will be of little use. They have an agenda and as Mr. Anderson says, I have a law to comply with.

So, I might suggest you take your letter and send it to your congressional representative.

They have the authority to change the law...that is being cherry picked.
 
There is a specific policy and a specific situation that allows swapping the contemporary meals for cafe car food. If that condition isn't met, and someone is doing it anyway (which is easy enough to do in my estimation), well I suppose you can chalk that up to "making rules up as they go along."
Perhaps my friend is allowed to do this because he has some dietary restrictions so it may be consistent with the official policy (if that is what the official policy says.)
 
Coby--Great to see you back!:)

Excellent letter, and I agree with Thirdrail7--send it to your congressional representative, too.

Thirdrail7--Your mention of the Keystones, I suppose because they have no food at all, reminds me of the one bright spot in all this: No dining car meals will lead to just what people do on the Keystones--get great food from the local places before and after traveling!:) Someone going from PHL to HAR on the Keystone can get a good breakfast or lunch in Philly, then a snack or another meal at the other end. And all those stops in Amish farm country in between with all that great food!

So, using that as an example, I had already decided that if I ever take the CL, I will get a late lunch in WAS and then go to that local diner everyone here talks about the next morning in Chicago. Or dinner in Philly before boarding the Meteor, then breakfast on the fancy street in Winter Park, Florida, the next day.

Great boosts for the local economy, wherever people are traveling to or from.:)

Of course, that doesn't make the LD sleeper any cheaper or more pleasant, and I never though I would say this, but I really don't want to go on them anymore just for fun--only to get somewhere because I don't fly--so I think my LD trips will be cut down greatly. No one wants to feel they are being taken advantage of, and that's what the same price for less is.
 
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