Amtrak moving forward to stop all, most LDT

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Lots of interesting ideas here having to do with capacity trains can possibly provide. I too contend that much of the troubles of our long distance routes is the removal of nearly all connection with other passenger service. Look at NY or Chicago. The stations are loaded with people coming and going and lines are long for people boarding. But look at St.Louis, the center of the nation with basically one route for long distance. When I moved from there to southern Illinois the train used to connect in Centralia or Carbondale to the City of New Orleans and too Kansas city to the west. A definitely much quicker way than going one day north and then returning 5 hours more just to go south by rail. That same route used to carry people past KC to Omaha. So all the interconnecting cities no longer have easy or any access to travel South. Same for many lines, the National Limited was a potential short cut to Washington ad New York and perhaps Florida, but they stopped running it. We have simply starved the natural routes people would use and at the expense of other lines as well.

On the privatization of passenger long distance. As good as that sounds I fear no one in their right minds would take that on. The cost of stations, food services, track maintenance ect. not to mention new equipment would seem almost impossible to afford on a private basis. Yes the old days the companies could easily run extra sleepers and coaches if needed, something that kept the revenue higher in peak times that possible today, but that infrastructure no longer exist and probably isn't coming back. That private rail "Pullman" service the attached to the City of New Orleans went though our town. One thing was they wouldn't take on passengers in between, you had to ride end to end for about three times what Amtrak was already charging. A recipe for disaster I would think. They started off saying they would run something like 5 or 6 cars including fancy lounges and high class diners. But when my friends who had some money decided to ride it they had removed most of the equipment leaving a sleeper and diner and four passengers on board. Too expensive and too limited a schedule. You can't run passenger service and then eliminate its use to most of the route.
 
The issue I have with the potential privatization of Amtrak is the UK attempt at privatization isn't exactly a success. Essentially they traded a public monopoly for government enforced private monopolies that get 3 times more subsidy money, 20%-60% higher fares (after inflation), and service that in many instances isn't exactly better. Amtrak would likely suffer the same fate as far as the long distance routes would be concerned. The price would go up, the service wouldn't be better for those who need a coach seat, and we'd likely end up subsidizing it more than Amtrak presently is. This is also assuming the railways would even allow anyone other than Amtrak or the odd commuter agency run trains on their tracks. What would likely happen is we'd overpay the railways for not much better than the existing service. Then the corridors would be disjointed and the states would likely contract out to other companies that currently run commuter trains. Given how blatantly stupid our leaders are when they get a wiff of privatization, we wouldn't get a better system out of it.

Also another thing that happens with privatization is that you can't really expect a private company to run socially beneficial programs (in this case passenger services in rural areas) and not gouge people. UK commuters and rural residents get gouged when it comes to train and bus fares. Even a month of BART fares in San Francisco cost about the same as some UK monthly rail passes commuters buy. It would be better to allow Amtrak to segment the market better and give it the funding to do so. But this would require better leadership instead of anti transit Heritage Foundation people running Amtrak these days.

Part of how we can get better service would be to push where we can for something better. Better rules for Amtrak, a rail policy on par with what the highway get, and having this be something that won't be 100% up to the states. Things aren't going to change unless rail advocates push for better instead of trying to defend the scraps trains get.
 
The biggest problem in the US is the private ownership of the railroad infrastructure, and no willingness to figure out how to fix that. Arguably the worst mistake in privatization in UK was that of the infrastructure, and they reversed it rather quickly. And yet we are stuck with it for better or worse. I do not expect that we will get a vibrant passenger system as long as the rail infrastructure is privately owned. They have no incentive for any reasonable price to support passenger service. That is why they consciously tried to destroy it and got out of it. Nothing really has changed about that basic fact in 50 years.

Only those places that have re-acquired the trackage de jure or de facto for primary public use, do we see vibrant passenger service. There are exceptions where a rail service acts as a good attachment to a vibrant real estate business - some would say akin to the Japanese private railroad model. But no freight railroad in and of itself, without itself being attached to a passenger rail dependent real estate business has any incentive to go that route either.

So we are where we are, and we will putter along with a few exceptional passenger systems being built outside of the generic American Railroad Industry. And in that context Amtrak will pretty much putter along in the delta neighborhood of where it is, for the foreseeable future.
 
Public ownership of the tracks merely requires political will -- that is clear enough from Massachusetts.

I think the poiltical will ebbs and flows, but the directional trend is mostly good, with the exception of the triply-idiotic Conrail selloff.

We are making progress in New York.

Every time I talk to anyone in government, I tell them they need to buy the tracks.
 
I would also add if you are having the state buy the tracks, they should be held by one entity rather than many. California has had that as an issue since the state bought off the NWP to bail out the SP in the 80s. Now that line is split between SMART and the NCRA, and Caltrain owns most of its route. If there was contiguous publicly owned tracks, it should be owned by one entity to prevent screw ups or short sided decisions. I know that can happen at the state level, but hopefully having to handle a larger area will reduce the possibility of a decision being made in favor of a commuter agency, but against the interests of a freight operator or Amtrak. I say this because a lot of disjointed agencies in California lead to stupid outcomes in other areas, primarily in higher education or my county having at least 4 bus agencies instead of 1.
 
The biggest problem in the US is the private ownership of the railroad infrastructure, and no willingness to figure out how to fix that.
That is only in regards to passenger rail. The biggest positive in the US is the private ownership of the freight railroad infrastructure.
 
The creation of the interstate highway system, over expansion of railroads fueled by stock speculation and the postal service switch to air-mail.
Add in:
  • inability for railroads to change fares or drop routes and stations without a mother-may-I from both state and federal regulators. The Pennsy didn't help matters when they reported parent holding company income (which included profits from diversification and "separate" railroads like the N&W) and not the PRR's actual losses.
  • excessive property taxes on railroad infrastructure including on double tracked (that would be useful to today's Amtrak) and passenger stations and terminals. Airports are usually owned by state or local governments and don't pay property taxes.
 
Add in:
  • inability for railroads to change fares or drop routes and stations without a mother-may-I from both state and federal regulators. The Pennsy didn't help matters when they reported parent holding company income (which included profits from diversification and "separate" railroads like the N&W) and not the PRR's actual losses.
  • excessive property taxes on railroad infrastructure including on double tracked (that would be useful to today's Amtrak) and passenger stations and terminals. Airports are usually owned by state or local governments and don't pay property taxes.
 
That is only in regards to passenger rail. The biggest positive in the US is the private ownership of the freight railroad infrastructure.

At least Americans fervently like to believe that. More power to them. [emoji51]

Doesn’t do much for the poor hapless captive customers who get the worst of monopolistic pricing with no consideration of social or economic value.
 
Do you ride on the MBTA in Boston too?

An odd thing about government agencies is that they try to think and behave like they are businesses with no social responsibility. That is the fashion of the day I am afraid.
 
Please be reminded that the topic of this discussion is Amtrak moving forward to stop most LD trains. Please try to keep the discussion on topic and avoid any political discussion and/or name calling. Thank you.
 
Please be reminded that the topic of this discussion is Amtrak moving forward to stop most LD trains. Please try to keep the discussion on topic and avoid any political discussion and/or name calling. Thank you.

Apologies, Penny. You are right. I think we're all frustrated. I wish we could fix this :( Anyone with the power to delete, please delete my off-topic posts here. Thanks.
 
It never ends, does it? I never thought my opinion on the need for Amtrak, and LD trains would change, but I’m leaning in that direction. Not about the importance of the LD train, but about WHO runs them. I realize it would now, and likely always, have to be subsidized, like all modes are, either directly or indirectly, but Amtrak has had about 45 years, and the LD product they provide the traveling public just sux eggs. Except for the scenery. My opinions are very biased, having worked the LD trains in pre-Superliner and during the introduction of the Superliner fleet. No doubt there are good, even GREAT staff working onboard Amtrak. But at the mgmt level, the institutional knowledge on the “need” and the “how a LD train should be operated” are long gone. (Let alone how to market them). American passenger rail needs more Brian Rosenwald-types.....
 
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