3 to 14 no longer a guaranteed connection?

Heck, it’s not even bookable anymore on the app. The only routings from CHI to SEA for sale are Empire Builder and Zephyr/Starlight connection in SAC.

I wonder, would they still guarantee the connection if you already have a reservation for the 3-14 routing?

Yep, that connection definitely isn't bookable anymore. And just to make sure it wasn't just excluded from CHI to SEA bookings, I looked at routings from Albuqerque to Paso Robles (two stations only served by the SWC and CS), and 3 to 14 still wasn't an option.

But the way I understand it, someone who booked their ticket when it was allowed is still owed all the "perks" of it being guaranteed, so you should be okay.

It is only a 2 hour window connection time from a train that travels 3 days and 2500 miles.  I would assume that connection was a miss many days.

NativeSon5859 said:

Heck, it’s not even bookable anymore on the app. The only routings from CHI to SEA for sale are Empire Builder and Zephyr/Starlight connection in SAC.

I wonder, would they still guarantee the connection if you already have a reservation for the 3-14 routing?

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I believe if I had that connection booked, I would contact Amtrak to make sure it was still valid.  As is usually the case, "assuming" is not always the best policy.  

I'm shocked that they allowed it in the first place.  

NativeSon5859 said:

Heck, it’s not even bookable anymore on the app. The only routings from CHI to SEA for sale are Empire Builder and Zephyr/Starlight connection in SAC.

I wonder, would they still guarantee the connection if you already have a reservation for the 3-14 routing?

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I see the TE#421 - CS#14 is still bookable

I just made this connection in December and it went fine. In fact, the connection has only been missed on 12% of days in the past year, so I am surprised it was ended. Other connections with much worse rates still exist such as 30 to 91 at WAS (22%) and 14 to 28 at PDX (20%).

I'll take this as potentially good news: maybe they're thinking about changing the Starlight's schedule to an earlier departure.

Rail Freak said:

I see the TE#421 - CS#14 is still bookable

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Under normal circumstances this is a much safer connection...about five hours...compared to the two hours from 3 to 14. Granted the current trackwork-modified schedules have changed that a bit.

That seems silly. Just looking at the past 7 days you would've made the connection 7 times out of 7, with most trips arriving 20 minutes early.

There seems to be enough schedule padding just getting into LA, plus the two hour connection window. If this is the case (and I haven't checked Amtrak's website), then I hope no one is shocked when there is a ridership decline on both trains.

In the past four months you would have missed the connection nearly 20 times.  

FWIW I just talked to two separate agents. The first had no idea what I was talking about. The second just said “it’s not showing because most likely the trains are sold out.” Which I sincerely doubt is the case.

NativeSon5859 said:

FWIW I just talked to two separate agents. The first had no idea what I was talking about. The second just said “it’s not showing because most likely the trains are sold out.” Which I sincerely doubt is the case.

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Yeah, I’m sure it’s just a case of the Starlight being completely sold out south of Emeryville every day for the next 11 months. Sure.

cpotisch said:

Yeah, I’m sure it’s just a case of the Starlight being completely sold out south of Emeryville every day for the next 11 months. Sure.

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I doubt that the agent looked at 11 months worth of data.

That said, I did a test for November 6th, CHI-SEA.  Trains 3 & 14 show up as an valid option.  Arrive LAX at 8:00 AM and depart LAX at 10:10 AM.  So it's still booking for at least some dates.

cpotisch said:

Yep, that connection definitely isn't bookable anymore.

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I ran another test for February 6th and May 15th, just to spread out the dates.  It is most definitely bookable on each of those dates.  Each date had the same 2:10 layover in LAX.

VTTrain said:

In the past four months you would have missed the connection nearly 20 times.  

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Yes, but the guaranteed connection could still have been upheld in the vast majority of those cases. Every single destination served by the CS in California, except for Dunsmuir, is served by other Amtrak services. In many cases, it's actually faster to NOT connect to the Coast Starlight.

Even for passengers traveling to points in Oregon and Washington, you can "catch up" to the Coast Starlight in SAC by leaving LAX as late as 2:10 p.m. on a Thruway bus to Bakersfield. Over the past 12 months, train 3 arrived in LAX after 2:10 p.m. on just 8 days. So there is an extremely high likelihood of making a same-day connection in LAX. Granted, sleeping car passengers won't appreciate the downgrade for the portion of their journey they spend catching up to the CS, but they are generally compensated for that.

In fact, there is little reason for Amtrak to "un-guarantee" this connection, since the vast majority of passengers can be re-accomodated at little to no cost to Amtrak. And since there does not appear to be any evidence that the connection is no longer guaranteed (it's bookable on most future dates), I would suggest this thread has run its course.

1@NativeSon5859[/USER] As far as I can tell, this was actually just a brief site hiccup of some kind, since 3-14 is now showing up as an option on every day I can see (including the ones that I checked earlier and saw otherwise). Just ARROW being funky, I guess.

fairviewroad said:

Every single destination served by the CS in California, except for Dunsmuir, is served by other Amtrak services

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Sorry to nitpick, but Redding is also exclusively served by the CS...

cpotisch said:

Sorry to nitpick, but Redding is also exclusively served by the CS...

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You'll notice I said "other Amtrak services."

Redding (and Chico) is served by four Amtrak Thruway buses every day. Each connects to/from a San Joaquins train in either Sacramento or Stockton.

fairviewroad said:

You'll notice I said "other Amtrak services."

Redding (and Chico) is served by four Amtrak Thruway buses every day. Each connects to/from a San Joaquins train in either Sacramento or Stockton.

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You sure? I'm checking again and all I'm seeing is that the Redding station is only served by the Starlight. :wacko:

cpotisch said:

You sure? I'm checking again and all I'm seeing is that the Redding station is only served by the Starlight. :wacko:

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Redding, for reasons that make sense only to Amtrak, uses two different station codes.

RDD = the train station, used for the Coast Starlight

RDR = the downtown transit center, used for Thruway buses.

In reality, the two "stations" are at the same location.

You can see the timetable for Redding bus service on page 4 of the San Joaquins timetable.

The Redding train station is on one side of the tracks and the transit center is on the other, facing away. There's a fence between the tracks and the transit center, so you have to walk out to the street and around to get from one to another. I guess that's enough of a difference.

TiBike said:

The Redding train station is on one side of the tracks and the transit center is on the other, facing away. There's a fence between the tracks and the transit center, so you have to walk out to the street and around to get from one to another. I guess that's enough of a difference.

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Sure, but the two locations in Redding are closer to each other than the train platforms are to the bus boarding area in places like SAC and LAX (and others, I'm guessing).

Giving the two locations separate codes is needlessly confusing and is yet another way that Amtrak turns away customers who aren't savvy enough to figure out the system.

fairviewroad said:

Giving the two locations separate codes is needlessly confusing and is yet another way that Amtrak turns away customers who aren't savvy enough to figure out the system.

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That’s the salient point.  If it fooled someone here, how many others does it fool?  It probably happens quite frequently.