Viewliner II Part 2: Dining Car Production, Delivery, Speculation

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KnightRail said:
Tomorrow: Dover & Frankfort
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You must have gotten my mental message.  I was wondering when Dover was coming down the NEC as I was heading home parallel to where I usually catch the new cars.  :D

I was also thinking, don't be sending them now - it's dark and cold now.  :p
 
Looks like Albany is the only one missing.  Good news, maybe the Star or Cardinal will get a Lounge.  Some of the early deliverers are probably ready for a long maintenance, so good thing there are spares. :)  
 
stappend said:
Looks like Albany is the only one missing.  Good news, maybe the Star or Cardinal will get a Lounge.  Some of the early deliverers are probably ready for a long maintenance, so good thing there are spares. :)  
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I don't think that this delivery means we're any closer to the Star or Cardinal getting a ViewDiner. They've had enough cars to outfit those trains for many months. IMO, available equipment really is not the issue here, it's management.
 
cpotisch said:
I don't think that this delivery means we're any closer to the Star or Cardinal getting a ViewDiner. They've had enough cars to outfit those trains for many months. IMO, available equipment really is not the issue here, it's management.
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During Penn Station repairs:

Cars available: 22

Assigned:

19-20 - 4

448-449 - 4

97-98 - 4

Protect:

BOS - 1

SSY - 1

CHI - 1

HIA - 1

NOL - 1

Total Assigned & Protect: 17

Unassigned: 5

Today (NYP repairs done)

Cars available: 24

Assigned (proposed):

19-20 - 4

48-49 - 3

50-51 - 2

91-92 - 4

97-98 - 4

Protect:

SSY - 1

CHI - 1

HIA - 1

NOL - 1

Total Assigned and Protect: 21

Unassigned: 3

While there were insufficient cars over the Summer, I think there would be now. The Unassigned (shops) will be augumented when 00 - Albany is delivered, and the decision to recall 8400 - Indianapolis from axle count service is  made.
 
Does anyone else think there might be use for diners on Northeast Regional trains?   They certainly have the greatest occupancy of any Amtrak routes, and plenty of people are on the trains for extended periods over meal times.
 
Maglev said:
Does anyone else think there might be use for diners on Northeast Regional trains?   They certainly have the greatest occupancy of any Amtrak routes, and plenty of people are on the trains for extended periods over meal times.
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I personally don't think so, since the Regionals don't have sleepers and even the longest ones take no more than about 12.5 hours end to end.
 
I don't think having a sleeping car in the consist is a prerequisite for having a dining car.  I rode the Merchants Limited loads of times in the late 60's and very much enjoyed the dining service on it.  Parlor car was very good too.  But:  that was then, this is now.  Trouble is, Amtrak is probably unwilling to try and experiment with anything these days that would enhance the customer service.  Along with the airlines, it's a race to the bottom, it seems.
 
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More to the point, Amtrak is probably unwilling to try anything that might increase net foodservice costs, which operating a Viewdiner as a dining car in NEC Regional service likely would.
 
cpotisch said:
I personally don't think so, since the Regionals don't have sleepers and even the longest ones take no more than about 12.5 hours end to end.
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Back in the day, the Northeast trains did have full dining service.  In the summer of 1975 I was a regular passenger on the Bankers, WAS TO BOS.  I rode from PHL to NYP.  It had a diner, and I was able to get served a full dinner between Trenton and Newark.  I seem to remember they did a good business.  Streamlined service - choice of fish, chicken or steak, prixe-fix with 2 veg, salad and roll.  You filled out your order, all the waiter had to do was take your check, bring your food, and collect the money.  It should work even better today, what with preplated. meals, but I think the eating public today wants more menu choices, which complicates things.
 
MARC Rider said:
Back in the day, the Northeast trains did have full dining service.  In the summer of 1975 I was a regular passenger on the Bankers, WAS TO BOS.  I rode from PHL to NYP.  It had a diner, and I was able to get served a full dinner between Trenton and Newark.  I seem to remember they did a good business.  Streamlined service - choice of fish, chicken or steak, prixe-fix with 2 veg, salad and roll.  You filled out your order, all the waiter had to do was take your check, bring your food, and collect the money.  It should work even better today, what with preplated. meals, but I think the eating public today wants more menu choices, which complicates things.
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Oh yeah, the train I  rode in the 70s was the Merchants Limited.
 
But remember that the (often vast) majority of diner "sales" on most routes come from sleeper passengers, which have meals included. So that would have to be different for a diner to work well without sleepers.
 
What has not been explained by Amtrak is what amount of sleeper revenue is allocated to the F & B revenue.  Is it a fixed amount for each sleeper passenger, or is it a fixed amount from what each passenger eats,  or is it just the amount each sleeper passenger charges ?  Depending on how charged has big effects on F&B revenue and some effect on how much the sleeper revenue is  ?   Our congress critters need to know !  
 
west point said:
What has not been explained by Amtrak is what amount of sleeper revenue is allocated to the F & B revenue.  Is it a fixed amount for each sleeper passenger, or is it a fixed amount from what each passenger eats,  or is it just the amount each sleeper passenger charges ?  Depending on how charged has big effects on F&B revenue and some effect on how much the sleeper revenue is  ?   Our congress critters need to know !  
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This is a point I have made repeatedly regarding the revenue allocated for the sleeper meals. Take a roomette for example, whether one or two persons occupy the roomette, the roomette cost which includes meals is the same. Thus, it would seem logical to allocate revenue for meals for two people whether or not two people actually occupy the room. Accordingly, when one person is occupying the room a substantial “profit” should be realized.

To consider what the sleeper passenger actually eats as the measure for revenue makes no sense. The amount that a passenger eats actually determines the “cost” of the food consumed.

To account otherwise is nonsensical since if the sleeper passenger “pays” for the meals but does not eat anything, under the attributing revenue based upon what is eaten, there would be no revenue even though the meals were actually paid for. The failure to eat them, decreases the cost (no food eaten), and actually presents AMTRAK an opportunity to sell the same food twice by selling it to a coach passenger and increase revenue even more.

Until we know how revenue is allocated, however, we can’t make a determination whether the F&B operations make a profit or not.

Since I am just repeating myself ad nauseam, somebody figuratively, knock me up the side of my head if I do this again![emoji773]
 
JRR -  -  Thanks seems we are on the same page.  To expand If 2 passengers are in a roomette then the same amount that is allocated for one passenger would seem to be in order.  @ people certainly increases the overall sleeper designated revenue. The same should apply as well for mote than 1 in a bedroom.  That does mean some reduction may be in order if a 2nd or more persons is a minor ?

But until we really know how Amtrak is doing this instead of what should be done is making these figures from Amtrak almost meaning less. 
 
I'm going to repeat that half of the dining car customers on the LSL were from coach, before they started trashing dining service on the LSL PennCentral style.

If there was one competent person in management of Amtrak, they'd take advantage of this.
 
neroden said:
I'm going to repeat that half of the dining car customers on the LSL were from coach, before they started trashing dining service on the LSL PennCentral style.

If there was one competent person in management of Amtrak, they'd take advantage of this.
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That is one of the reasons why I thought the LSL was a bit of an odd choice for contemporary dining. They cut coach pax out of the dining experience when they account for 50% of diner customers, on a train which often runs with five or six coaches. Doesn't strike me as a particularly good choice.
 

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