Amtrak request for proposal-Nationwide Food & Beverage Service

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The Jones Act preserves some US Flag freight, but virtually all cruise ships are foreign, mostly flags of convenience. Regional airlines are always whining about the pilot shortage, and have been especially vocal about the raising of qualifications. They rather let jobs go unfilled than pay more to attract more candidates, and they don't have as robust a supply of ex military to draw from. They got away cheap for years, and want to keep it that way. Boo hoo.
 
crescent-zephyr said:
ehbowen said:
Yes, especially the foreign flag vessels.
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are there any US cruise ships?
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CCC1007 said:
crescent-zephyr said:
ehbowen said:
Yes, especially the foreign flag vessels.
Click to expand...
are there any US cruise ships?
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I only know of one, Pride of America, which is operated by NCL.
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That is the only full-sized, US registered cruise ship. There are some small coastal, great lakes, and river cruise ships....account of the Passenger Vessel Service Act...

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/documents/pvsa_icp_3.pdf
 
PVD said:
The Jones Act preserves some US Flag freight, but virtually all cruise ships are foreign, mostly flags of convenience. Regional airlines are always whining about the pilot shortage, and have been especially vocal about the raising of qualifications. They rather let jobs go unfilled than pay more to attract more candidates, and they don't have as robust a supply of ex military to draw from. They got away cheap for years, and want to keep it that way. Boo hoo.
Click to expand...
The Jones Act applies to freight...the PVSA to passenger....
 
crescent-zephyr said:
North Carolina has vending machines on their lounge cars. They also stock free mini-bottles of water for all passengers. I can't remember if the coffee is free, or if it's a pay machine. The vending machines have always been well-stocled and working and the waters have all been well stocked when I rode the Piedmont trains.

California has a different menu on their trains, as does the state sponsored Cascades trains. At one time the cascades operated the bistro car with 2 employees, allowing some foods prep on the train. For example, ordering oatmeal at breakfast you would get oatmeal spooned into a bowl from a pot with all the toppings like in a diner, not the usual add hot water to an instant tub like on most cafe cars. that was like 5 years ago though, may have changed.
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When there was only a singe Piedmont, they had a blind man on board who sold BBQ and a few other items. Good, hot food. They dumped him but I don't know why.

crescent-zephyr said:
ehbowen said:
Yes, especially the foreign flag vessels.
Click to expand...
are there any US cruise ships?
Click to expand...
River boats and other small ships that only ply U.S. waters.
 
CCC1007 said:
crescent-zephyr said:
ehbowen said:
Yes, especially the foreign flag vessels.
Click to expand...
are there any US cruise ships?
Click to expand...
I only know of one, Pride of America, which is operated by NCL.
Click to expand...
Because it travels around Hawaii and has no foreign ports to go to. When I cruised to Alaska a few years ago I had to leave from Vancouver because of the Jones Act. Think of all of the commerce that is lost because those cruise ships can't leave from American ports. Example of laws and regulations that do more harm than good and do not achieve the intended purpose.

Speaking of laws and keeping on topic, what does Amtrak lose because it has to comply with local laws and regulations? For instance I remember being on a train many years ago and I couldn't get a drink because it was Sunday and we were in a "dry" state or county or something. Perhaps it won't add up to much but an airline doesn't have to close the bar because it is flying over a "dry" state. Can't Amtrak get an exemption to local laws?
 
cocojacoby said:
Speaking of laws and keeping on topic, what does Amtrak lose because it has to comply with local laws and regulations? For instance I remember being on a train many years ago and I couldn't get a drink because it was Sunday and we were in a "dry" state or county or something. Perhaps it won't add up to much but an airline doesn't have to close the bar because it is flying over a "dry" state. Can't Amtrak get an exemption to local laws?
Click to expand...
I travel on the Silver Meteor quite often leaving Florida on a Sunday. Georgia is a dry State and dinner is usually served when in Georgia. There is usually an announcement stating that if passengers want to get an alcoholic beverage, they need to get it before the train crosses into Georgia. I usually purchase my beer or wine in the cafe car (while still in Florida) and bring it with me to the dining car when in Georgia.
 
cocojacoby said:
Because it travels around Hawaii and has no foreign ports to go to. When I cruised to Alaska a few years ago I had to leave from Vancouver because of the Jones Act. Think of all of the commerce that is lost because those cruise ships can't leave from American ports. Example of laws and regulations that do more harm than good and do not achieve the intended purpose.

Click to expand...
The Jones Act governs freight cabotage....it is the Passenger Vessel Services Act that regulates passenger traffic.

The airlines are also restricted from wholly domestic traffic in a foreign land. Or in what percentage of foreign ownership of a domestic airline is allowed.

It is interesting, that among the various modes, only railways are permitted to have full local traffic rights over their own lines in foreign countries (not via trackage rights). There are requirements for a separate 'corporation' for those lines, and local staffing as well.....
 
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railiner said:
cocojacoby said:
Because it travels around Hawaii and has no foreign ports to go to. When I cruised to Alaska a few years ago I had to leave from Vancouver because of the Jones Act. Think of all of the commerce that is lost because those cruise ships can't leave from American ports. Example of laws and regulations that do more harm than good and do not achieve the intended purpose.

Click to expand...
The Jones Act governs freight cabotage....it is the Passenger Vessel Services Act that regulates passenger traffic.

The airlines are also restricted from wholly domestic traffic in a foreign land. Or in what percentage of foreign ownership of a domestic airline is allowed.

It is interesting, that among the various modes, only railways are permitted to have full local traffic rights over their own lines in foreign countries (not via trackage rights). There are requirements for a separate 'corporation' for those lines, and local staffing as well.....
Click to expand...
There's a bunch of text missing in your quote.
 
The PVSA is pretty generous in what is allowed to foreign flagged ships, since they can leave and return to the same US port if they go to a foreign port and return with the same passengers. What business is lost? Not too many starving major cruise limes. There is a reason they keep buying more new ships every year, and they are getting bigger and bigger.
 
Not that I am some qualified business-man, but having traveled around the country through various methods and eaten at alot of "quick service" restaurants if I were to create an Amtrak food and beverage plan it would be this -

1 - Chef / Food prep employee

1- Sleeper Lounge Attendant. (physical diner or CCC type car)

Lunch / Dinner menu would consist of a few cooked items that can be mixed / matched with pre-prepared items to create a variety of dishes. For example, by cooking chicken breasts and salmon you can now prepare grilled chicken sandwich, grilled chicken entree, salmon entree, salad with grilled chicken, salad with grilled salmon, vegetarian entree salad, Vegetarian Burger. That's 7 options that only require chicken breasts, salmon, veggie patties, buns for chicken and veggie burgers, and the base salad. Now include a choice of 1 pre-made side (potato salad, chips, pasta salad,) and 1 pre-made dessert (cheesecake, chocolate mousse, package of gluten free cookies) and you're set.

Breakfast just make up a big batch of scrambled eggs, french toast, breakfast potatoes, bacon and sausage. Everything from that list can be quickly plated. Have some continental breakfast plates ready to go (yogurt, fruit, choice of cereal, croissant) and have a breakfast plate with choice of scrambled eggs or french toast.

The chef can pre-prepare some coach meals for lunch/ dinner (grilled chicken salad, grilled salmon salad, veggie salad) that can either be sold in the lounge or delivered at-seat by coach attendants.

This eliminates the service staff, which really aren't necessary. But the end result would be plated food prepared on board. Not boxed food prepared a few days ago.

It does eliminate the dining car as a diner, but I don't know how to keep the dining car as-is without it continuing to lose alot of money.
 
cpotisch said:
railiner said:
cocojacoby said:
Because it travels around Hawaii and has no foreign ports to go to. When I cruised to Alaska a few years ago I had to leave from Vancouver because of the Jones Act. Think of all of the commerce that is lost because those cruise ships can't leave from American ports. Example of laws and regulations that do more harm than good and do not achieve the intended purpose.
Click to expand...
The Jones Act governs freight cabotage....it is the Passenger Vessel Services Act that regulates passenger traffic.
The airlines are also restricted from wholly domestic traffic in a foreign land. Or in what percentage of foreign ownership of a domestic airline is allowed.

It is interesting, that among the various modes, only railways are permitted to have full local traffic rights over their own lines in foreign countries (not via trackage rights). There are requirements for a separate 'corporation' for those lines, and local staffing as well.....
Click to expand...
There's a bunch of text missing in your quote.
Click to expand...
I only wanted to respond to what I left in...I can't figure out how to remove the entire unwanted quote's when quoting a post......sorry....
default_blush.png
 
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In the case of the PVSA, it is a little deeper than just being flagged in the United States of America. The hull of the vessel is required to be built and launched in the USA, unless a waver is granted by an Act of Congress that must be renewed every so many years by another Act of Congress. Additionally, a US flagged vessel is required to adhere to USCG safety requirements and inspections (which are very strict), and all staff aboard in all departments must adhere to US labor and wage laws.

20 or more years ago, there were more US-built passenger hulls still in the water and thus a higher likelihood of US-flagged passenger vessels. Me and my family sailed aboard the US-flagged American Hawaii Cruises SS Independence, precursor to the NCL M/V Pride of America. Beautiful steam-powered ocean liner that was entirely US-crewed and was the last true US-flagged ocean-going passenger vessel still in service. I am no fan of the absurdly ugly PoA, but I remember that it was a three-ring circus to have the ship built by a US shipyard... And it was almost cancelled when AHC died during the post-9/11 tourist crash.
 
crescent-zephyr said:
Not that I am some qualified business-man, but having traveled around the country through various methods and eaten at alot of "quick service" restaurants if I were to create an Amtrak food and beverage plan it would be this -

1 - Chef / Food prep employee

1- Sleeper Lounge Attendant. (physical diner or CCC type car)

Lunch / Dinner menu would consist of a few cooked items that can be mixed / matched with pre-prepared items to create a variety of dishes. For example, by cooking chicken breasts and salmon you can now prepare grilled chicken sandwich, grilled chicken entree, salmon entree, salad with grilled chicken, salad with grilled salmon, vegetarian entree salad, Vegetarian Burger. That's 7 options that only require chicken breasts, salmon, veggie patties, buns for chicken and veggie burgers, and the base salad. Now include a choice of 1 pre-made side (potato salad, chips, pasta salad,) and 1 pre-made dessert (cheesecake, chocolate mousse, package of gluten free cookies) and you're set.

Breakfast just make up a big batch of scrambled eggs, french toast, breakfast potatoes, bacon and sausage. Everything from that list can be quickly plated. Have some continental breakfast plates ready to go (yogurt, fruit, choice of cereal, croissant) and have a breakfast plate with choice of scrambled eggs or french toast.

The chef can pre-prepare some coach meals for lunch/ dinner (grilled chicken salad, grilled salmon salad, veggie salad) that can either be sold in the lounge or delivered at-seat by coach attendants.

This eliminates the service staff, which really aren't necessary. But the end result would be plated food prepared on board. Not boxed food prepared a few days ago.

It does eliminate the dining car as a diner, but I don't know how to keep the dining car as-is without it continuing to lose alot of money.
Click to expand...
I will repeat...there is no way one attendant can handle a sold out Builder or Starlight. I can't speak for other trains, but...this simply wouldn't work on many trains.
 
Well... Alter staffing as needed. If one attendant can handle the Capitol with 2 sleepers and a Transdorm, let's just say add an attendant when the train sells more than 2 full sleepers?

That solve the problem?
 
pennyk said:
cocojacoby said:
Speaking of laws and keeping on topic, what does Amtrak lose because it has to comply with local laws and regulations? For instance I remember being on a train many years ago and I couldn't get a drink because it was Sunday and we were in a "dry" state or county or something. Perhaps it won't add up to much but an airline doesn't have to close the bar because it is flying over a "dry" state. Can't Amtrak get an exemption to local laws?
Click to expand...
I travel on the Silver Meteor quite often leaving Florida on a Sunday. Georgia is a dry State and dinner is usually served when in Georgia. There is usually an announcement stating that if passengers want to get an alcoholic beverage, they need to get it before the train crosses into Georgia. I usually purchase my beer or wine in the cafe car (while still in Florida) and bring it with me to the dining car when in Georgia.
Click to expand...
Yep. More than once, I bought a Bailey's at lunch out of ORL/WPK/DLD and then ordered a coffee at dinner to have it in.
 
crescent-zephyr said:
Well... Alter staffing as needed. If one attendant can handle the Capitol with 2 sleepers and a Transdorm, let's just say add an attendant when the train sells more than 2 full sleepers?

That solve the problem?
Click to expand...
If one attendant is "handling" two full sleepers and a transdorm, THAT is a problem in itself. Quality, availability of the attendant, and both employee and pax morale are bound to suffer.
 
Might need two dining car staff: one to prepare food, and an LSA to take orders, sell alcohol, take payment from coach customers, and keep things tidy outside the kitchen in the dining car.
 

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