Lake Shore returns to normal operation

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lordsigma

Engineer
AU Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2017
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Saw the final summer 449 about 30 minutes ago at Springfield en route to Chicago. Last time I’ll get to see a viewliner II diner there for a while I would imagine. 48 is back today running to NYP - looks like it may be the first revenue train returning to NYP via the Empire Connection. Is 448 Boston section running as a train or bus today?
 
Looking at the Amtrak status page it looks like 48 is heading to NYP, even though other Empire service is heading to NYG.
 
B&Ofan said:
Looking at the Amtrak status page it looks like 48 is heading to NYP, even though other Empire service is heading to NYG.
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Yes it appears that they are using today as a “transition day” for the Lake Shore (first 48 running to NYP and last trainset configured for summer ops running to Chicago for conversion back to normal ops.) But Empire Service trains still going to NYG. Would imagine they must be doing some non revenue equipment movements today and tonight from NYG to Sunnyside as they return to NYP departures for everything tomorrow.
 
Not to sound stupid but what is the difference between summer ops and normal ops on the LSL? Is it fewer coaches and or sleepers?
 
Entire train was running between Chicago and Boston only because of track repairs on the West Side Connection used by the New York section of the train. There was no direct service to New York City.
 
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lordsigma said:
Saw the final summer 449 about 30 minutes ago at Springfield en route to Chicago. Last time I’ll get to see a viewliner II diner there for a while I would imagine. 48 is back today running to NYP - looks like it may be the first revenue train returning to NYP via the Empire Connection. Is 448 Boston section running as a train or bus today?
Click to expand...
I am on that train right now - were you the man with his family watching on the left side of the train?
And 448 is running as a train. We met it about 30-45 min ago. It is a standard pre-May consist. It is possible it had two sleepers as I couldn’t quite tell but other than that it’s the same.
 
Amtrak706 said:
lordsigma said:
Saw the final summer 449 about 30 minutes ago at Springfield en route to Chicago. Last time I’ll get to see a viewliner II diner there for a while I would imagine. 48 is back today running to NYP - looks like it may be the first revenue train returning to NYP via the Empire Connection. Is 448 Boston section running as a train or bus today?
Click to expand...
I am on that train right now - were you the man with his family watching on the left side of the train?
And 448 is running as a train. We met it about 30-45 min ago. It is a standard pre-May consist. It is possible it had two sleepers as I couldn’t quite tell but other than that it’s the same.
Click to expand...
No I was on the far platform by the elevator to ground level but I did see the family you are referring to so you may have seen me in the distance. I was mainly there to take pictures of the demolition work on platform C at the station (where they will be building a high level platform) and caught the train as a bonus.
 
lordsigma said:
Amtrak706 said:
lordsigma said:
Saw the final summer 449 about 30 minutes ago at Springfield en route to Chicago. Last time I’ll get to see a viewliner II diner there for a while I would imagine. 48 is back today running to NYP - looks like it may be the first revenue train returning to NYP via the Empire Connection. Is 448 Boston section running as a train or bus today?
Click to expand...
I am on that train right now - were you the man with his family watching on the left side of the train?And 448 is running as a train. We met it about 30-45 min ago. It is a standard pre-May consist. It is possible it had two sleepers as I couldn’t quite tell but other than that it’s the same.
Click to expand...
No I was on the far platform by the elevator to ground level but I did see the family you are referring to so you may have seen me in the distance. I was mainly there to take pictures of the demolition work on platform C at the station (where they will be building a high level platform) and caught the train as a bonus.
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Ok gotcha. I think I might have seen you in the distance actually.
Anyone else find it kind of odd that Amtrak still has not put up a new schedule for the Lake Shore and other Hudson trains?
 
And, of course, the 'new' timetable effective 9/4 is NOT up on the Amtrak site as of 30 seconds ago. Way to go Amtrak!!!!

I'm actually leaving SPG on the 'short' 449 tomorrow! Maybe they'll have the old/new timetable online at that point!
 
lordsigma said:
Amtrak706 said:
lordsigma said:
Saw the final summer 449 about 30 minutes ago at Springfield en route to Chicago. Last time I’ll get to see a viewliner II diner there for a while I would imagine. 48 is back today running to NYP - looks like it may be the first revenue train returning to NYP via the Empire Connection. Is 448 Boston section running as a train or bus today?
Click to expand...
I am on that train right now - were you the man with his family watching on the left side of the train?
And 448 is running as a train. We met it about 30-45 min ago. It is a standard pre-May consist. It is possible it had two sleepers as I couldn’t quite tell but other than that it’s the same.
Click to expand...
No I was on the far platform by the elevator to ground level but I did see the family you are referring to so you may have seen me in the distance. I was mainly there to take pictures of the demolition work on platform C at the station (where they will be building a high level platform) and caught the train as a bonus.

This is fascinating. Here we have two members, one on a train, the other on a platform as that train passes, having a conversation with each other in real time, on AU forum, not social media. Don't know about the rest of you, but this would not have been possible even as little as four or five years ago....awesome!
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https://ibb.co/erxNEe
https://ibb.co/jDUDLK
https://ibb.co/itEPSz
https://ibb.co/heFaZe
https://ibb.co/fcLnfK

Here are the pictures I took. In the foreground you can see the demolition work preparing for the new high level platform. Behind that you can see Amtrak706's Lake Shore 449 and the family they mentioned. In the first photo you can see Amtrak 465 which was departing as I arrived on the platform. Behind the Lake Shore on track 1 is a freight waiting for the two trains to clear the area. After the Lake Shore departed the freight continued and switched from the CSX B&A mainline to the Amtrak New Haven - Springfield line heading towards Hartford - I didn't see the locomotives to catch who was operating the freight train.
 
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Very cool!

90departing.png


465 departing from onboard my train.

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The head end during the layover at Rensselaer.

449assend.png


Accelerating into the night after I got off in Syracuse.
 
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B&Ofan said:
Not to sound stupid but what is the difference between summer ops and normal ops on the LSL? Is it fewer coaches and or sleepers?
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The summer consist was one locomotive instead of two; one baggage car instead of two; four coaches instead of five or six; and two sleepers instead of three.
 
cocojacoby said:
So they ran the longest 449 ever (I am assuming) over the Berkshires with only one engine? I've usually seen two engines on the smaller version every time I have seen it.
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They normally have two engines on the Boston section so that they don't need to add another locomotive or anything when it joins with the NY section in Albany. Since the combined ALB-CHI Lake Shore is a very long train, it needs two engines. Instead of adding/removing one in Albany, the Boston section runs with those two locos, even though it's totally unnecessary for such a short train.
 
I don't believe a 13 car single level train really needs two P42s on a flat profile route like the Water Level Route. Of course it does perform a little better with two than with one. Indeed the LSL has been run with a single engine from time to time. It is a completely flat route and for a period even when it had two engines they had run it with only one engine on, supposedly to save fuel and cost, the second engine simply sticking around in case the first one failed.
 
2 is the norm, but I have done one trip with one unit (and my fingers crossed). Keep in mind that during the time when the complete train operated out of NYP with just a cross platform transfer to/from the Boston section a single P32-DM took the entire train to Albany where it picked up the P-42(s) Took a bit of time to get up to speed, they run pretty fast on that stretch, but I have been towed in to Albany on a LSL that died between SDY and ALB. 2nd unit that ws just providing HEP died,, lead unit worked harder and ran out of fuel (they thought they'd make ALB and were wrong)
 
Heck, the LSL New York section in its full size (including Slumbercoach and all) was pulled by a single FL-9 too. That was all of 1800HP and 89mph max speed.

Just to give you some idea of what is possible day in and day out for operation at 80mph. in India the EMD WDP4 Class Diesel routinely a single unit powers 24 (75' car) car trains, which would be like 21 85' cars. And this is not even over flat track profile.
 
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Sure it is possible to run a 13 car long distance train with one engine on flat terrain, but you are working a 20+ year old tired GE even harder than you need to, not to mention the drastically lower acceleration. The Auto Train can get away with two engines for 50 cars not only because of the relatively flat route, but also because they do not need to accelerate away from tons of intermediate stops. They also only hit a max of 70 and usually spend considerable time sitting between 55-65 at run 8.
 
As I said, two engines will perform better than one, but they are not necessary to meet that schedule under normal circumstances. Of course with the excellent dispatching that these trains face, more the number of engines the better.
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They ran the short Boston section with three engines on one of my trips this spring. It is hard to zoom in enough to see the third engine on my phone, but I believe this is the train I am thinking of, at Albany on April 16.

IMG_20180416_182437.jpg
 
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bms said:
They ran the short Boston section with three engines on one of my trips this spring. It is hard to zoom in enough to see the third engine on my phone, but I believe this is the train I am thinking of, at Albany on April 16.
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I'm looking at it on my computer and you are correct - that is indeed three engines.
 
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I took the Diet Lakeshore one other time last month and we had three units, but the rear two were DIT and were removed at Rensselaer.

8358EEC4-86C2-4E48-9B20-D540BCD92628.jpeg
 
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