Amtrak's New "Fresh Choices" Dining on CL & LSL

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Maglev said:
When I was in England around 1990, I rode the "Pullman" train from London to Penzance and had dinner on board (I think Jis recently took this trip...). Food was ordered on the train but prepared off the train and picked up en-route. The meal was delicious!
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Something like this might work on Amtrak for sleeper passengers if meals were ordered at the time tickets are purchased. This would allow a central commissary to prepare the meals. Another idea is to have random restaurants along the route prepare the food, but I think this would be more complicated (although it is in essence what is done on the Empire Builder).
 
Maglev said:
Maglev said:
When I was in England around 1990, I rode the "Pullman" train from London to Penzance and had dinner on board (I think Jis recently took this trip...). Food was ordered on the train but prepared off the train and picked up en-route. The meal was delicious!
Click to expand...
Something like this might work on Amtrak for sleeper passengers if meals were ordered at the time tickets are purchased. This would allow a central commissary to prepare the meals. Another idea is to have random restaurants along the route prepare the food, but I think this would be more complicated (although it is in essence what is done on the Empire Builder).
Click to expand...
Are you sure that the Empire Builder has food cooked at random places on the way?
 
jis said:
Maglev said:
Maglev said:
When I was in England around 1990, I rode the "Pullman" train from London to Penzance and had dinner on board (I think Jis recently took this trip...). Food was ordered on the train but prepared off the train and picked up en-route. The meal was delicious!
Click to expand...
Something like this might work on Amtrak for sleeper passengers if meals were ordered at the time tickets are purchased. This would allow a central commissary to prepare the meals. Another idea is to have random restaurants along the route prepare the food, but I think this would be more complicated (although it is in essence what is done on the Empire Builder).
Click to expand...
Are you sure that the Empire Builder has food cooked at random places on the way?
Click to expand...
I meant the boxed food for the Portland section.
 
AmtrakBlue said:
crescent-zephyr said:
Interesting to note Anderson (or whoever) may be looking at other overnight trains for ideas... both overnight trains that operate in England, the Night Riviera and the Caledonian Sleeper (both trains depart London and offer a 1 night journey arriving the next morning) operate in a very similar way. Breakfast is advertised at your cabin or "in the lounge if you prefer" - sleeper class passengers have exclusive use of the lounge, coach passengers may purchase food to eat at their seat. All passengers receive an amenity kit. Lots of interesting comparisons. Dinner is not included, but can be purchased in the lounge, or be delivered to your room. If you google either train name along with the word "breakfast" you will see a pretty basic, mostly pre-packaged breakfast. The "hot" breakfast items on both trains look to be extremely basic "heat and serve" dishes. And many of the photos are of all prepackaged items with cereal.
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Wonder if the same people who say Amtrak should be more like the European trains will complain that Amtrak is starting to look more like the European trains. [emoji848]
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Is this intended to be a facetious comment? Overnight sleeper trains represent less than 1% of European passenger train inventory. When Americans say they want passenger service which is more like European trains this isn't what they're talking about.
 
Maglev said:
jis said:
Are you sure that the Empire Builder has food cooked at random places on the way?
Click to expand...
I meant the boxed food for the Portland section.
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Also the "Big Sky Chicken Dinner" which is a cold boxed dinner that is loaded onto the Empire Builder in Montana and sold in the lounge car. Seeing how this has been going on for 20+ years it tells us 2 things.

1. It is possible to load food from a private caterer mid-trip.

2. Coach passengers are interested in a higher quality, cold, boxed meal that they can purchase and eat at their seat or in the lounge. Keep in mind that this is available on a long distance train that offers a full service dining car to coach passengers. One could then assume, that some coach passengers would PREFER a cold, boxed meal that they can pick up and eat at their seat, vs. the traditional dining car experience.
 
jis said:
Maglev said:
When I was in England around 1990, I rode the "Pullman" train from London to Penzance and had dinner on board (I think Jis recently took this trip...). Food was ordered on the train but prepared off the train and picked up en-route. The meal was delicious!
Click to expand...
Charlie was on it recently too. It is the Caledonian Sleeper service operated by a private franchisee, Serco for Scottish Rail Regulators which is the contracting agency, in a new franchise for 15 years. Even trying to propose such an operation in the US would be liable to be treated as blasphemy these days. C'est la vie.

BTW, it is getting brand spanking new Mark V cars, manufactured by CAF (75 cars) delivered more or less on time. They go into service in October this year.
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These are 2 different things.

1 - The Caledonian Sleeper does not offer a dining car. They offer a dinner menu in the lounge, which is only available to sleeping car passengers. They also offer a limited at your seat menu to coach passengers.

2 - "Pullman Dining" is a full service dining car on select departures on the Great Western Railway. These are on the regularly scheduled day trains, not the overnight train.

3 - The Night Rivera is also operated by the Great Western Railway, however it does not offer a full dining car. It does offer a lounge car, available only to sleeping car passengers, and it also offers coach passengers the opportunity to purchase "drink and light snacks" from the "express cafe" to enjoy at their seat.
 
In addition Virgin East Coast and Virgin West Coast at least has pretty good at seat dining service in all of the First Class. The English breakfast is really good. And remarkably unhealthy too
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I've met some amazing coach passengers in the diner in recent years. Most notably Maddy from Cleveland. Her and I were talking from Cumberland to Cleveland on the sightseer after dinner. And I was a sleeper passenger with my meal included. I generally don't like Amtrak desserts so I generally don't order them.
 
Hi,

Mr. Fred Frailey wrote his opinion about the test to eliminate hot meals on the LCL and CL. He mentioned that there is a Congressional mandate to not have any monetary revenue loss from dining cars by 2020. The changes of this Congressional mandate changing before 2020 is slim to none at all, so despite the voiced opinions here.....including mine, Amtrak has to meet this requirement.

http://cs.trains.com/trn/b/fred-frailey/archive/2018/04/23/meals-on-wheels-oh-my.aspx
 
Went to look at the ticket prices on the LSL to see how they where looking (curious if they might have lowered the prices temporarily as people get upset over the diner situation). Funny enough, the booking page is extremely misleading and makes it look like the offerings have been upgraded!

Contemporary Dining Choices on Capitol Limited and Lake Shore Limited Trains Begin June 1: Sleeping car customers can choose from a variety of fresh and ready-to-serve meals in place of traditional dining service. Sleeping and business class customers will also be offered unlimited soft beverages, a complimentary serving of beer, wine or a mixed-drink and an amenity kit. Learn more about the new dining options.
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It makes it sound like you can "choose a variety of fresh ready-to-serve meals" in lieu of the traditional diner service. But that traditional dining service is still being offered...

Amtrak is going to have a ton of upset passengers when they get handed a turkey sandwich for dinner...

LSL Warning.PNG
 
The statement says "in place of". It is a fine line, but Amtrak marketing doesn't want to complicate matters with a more detailed explanation. They are trying to sell this as a change for the better. No one will know for sure what is offered and isn't until June 1st.
 
If you click on the "learn more about the new dining options" link it admits that these new con-temporary meals are taking the place of traditional dining car options with no table service available. At first glance it's written so oddly that it almost looks like I can choose between a quality meal, a fresh meal, or a ready to serve meal. Then there's the silly marketing speak where in-room service, which appears to be similar if not identical to previous efforts, is now called "enhanced" room service. When I hear "fresh" I don't generally think of ready-to-serve or prepackaged meals but I guess any remaining confusion will be instantly cleared up when folks see their first class box meal arrive. Honestly, the main issue I have with this change is Amtrak's decision not to waive any penalties for those who booked during the current dining service and don't want to be an early participant in Anderson's "enhanced" dining experiment. It just seems needlessly petty and tone deaf to me.
 
Devil's Advocate said:
If you click on the "learn more about the new dining options" link it admits that these new con-temporary meals are taking the place of traditional dining car options with no table service available. At first glance it's written so oddly that it almost looks like I can choose between a quality meal, a fresh meal, or a ready to serve meal. Then there's the silly marketing speak where in-room service, which appears to be similar if not identical to previous efforts, is now called "enhanced" room service. When I hear "fresh" I don't generally think of ready-to-serve or prepackaged meals but I guess any remaining confusion will be instantly cleared up when folks see their first class box meal arrive. Honestly, the main issue I have with this change is Amtrak's decision not to waive any penalties for those who booked during the current dining service and don't want to be an early participant in Anderson's "enhanced" dining experiment. It just seems needlessly petty and tone deaf to me.
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This is such a sad, pathetic development for Trak. I absolutely refuse to ride any line without proper diner service cooked to order food.
 
Devil's Advocate said:
AmtrakBlue said:
crescent-zephyr said:
Interesting to note Anderson (or whoever) may be looking at other overnight trains for ideas... both overnight trains that operate in England, the Night Riviera and the Caledonian Sleeper (both trains depart London and offer a 1 night journey arriving the next morning) operate in a very similar way. Breakfast is advertised at your cabin or "in the lounge if you prefer" - sleeper class passengers have exclusive use of the lounge, coach passengers may purchase food to eat at their seat. All passengers receive an amenity kit. Lots of interesting comparisons. Dinner is not included, but can be purchased in the lounge, or be delivered to your room. If you google either train name along with the word "breakfast" you will see a pretty basic, mostly pre-packaged breakfast. The "hot" breakfast items on both trains look to be extremely basic "heat and serve" dishes. And many of the photos are of all prepackaged items with cereal.
Click to expand...
Wonder if the same people who say Amtrak should be more like the European trains will complain that Amtrak is starting to look more like the European trains. [emoji848]
Click to expand...
Is this intended to be a facetious comment? Overnight sleeper trains represent less than 1% of European passenger train inventory. When Americans say they want passenger service which is more like European trains this isn't what they're talking about.
Click to expand...
While I agree that Americans mean "high speed corridor trains" it really should be noted that many European trains are not high speed. The high speed corridors are fed by slower trains.

There are 2 overnight trains operating in the country of England, which is 57% the size of california. How big of a percentage do overnight trains represent in the usa? Can't be that much higher.

Obviously it's not apples to oranges... Nothing is ever a direct comparison. Just some pre-prepared food for thought.
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Rheavon said:
spinnaker said:
Was anyone informed of this change by Amtrak? I know I wasn't and I have a roomette reservation this summer. Amtrak could have at least notified people so they can make other arrangements for dinner id they chose. With a 6:40PM departure east bound from CHI there are certainly opportunities for an early dinner in the city.
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Not me. I'm riding the CL July 31 and haven't received any word on the change.
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Just an update. Got my notification today. Subject = Your upcoming trip: new meal service onboard

Hi RHEAVON

Beginning June 1, Amtrak will offer contemporary meal choices for sleeping car customers, in place of traditional dining car service, onboard the Capitol Limited and Lake Shore Limited trains. Sleeping car customers will choose from a variety of quality, fresh and ready-to-serve meals. Unlimited soft drinks, a complimentary serving of beer, wine or a mixed-drink and an amenity kit will also be offered to sleeping car customers.

Sleeping car customers will have the option to dine at available seating in the sleeping car lounge or can continue to be served in their bedrooms or roomettes.

Reservations for in room dining will be available in frequent intervals consistent with today’s standards and meals continue to be included in the sleeping car fare. A Kosher meal continues to be available with advance notice.

More information is available here

Thank you for choosing Amtrak.
 
It is so sad to think that if the new meals are not reversed, people who are just now beginning to ride Amtrak will never miss it. They won't know what it was like to travel by train in the past. They won't know about the steak dinners served on a real tablecloths. They'll happily pack extra travel food or extra money for the cafe. They will be content to ride from here to there and nothing more.
 
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As far as I know, Amtrak carries in the realm of 32 million passengers per year, around 4.7 million are long distance. Of that, Star has been dinerless for quit a while, at 377k + riders. The new program impacts trains that carry approximately 620k additional passengers. CONO and Card are another 368k with limited service. A very large part of the LD ridership are coach passengers who may or may not use the diner at all. If a few people choose not to ride, but a greater number choose to, or if ridership stays the same or similar, but losses are lower, nobody will care that a few of us are not happy about the change.
 
Rheavon said:
Just an update. Got my notification today. Subject = Your upcoming trip: new meal service onboard

Hi RHEAVON

Beginning June 1, Amtrak will offer contemporary meal choices for sleeping car customers, in place of traditional dining car service, onboard the Capitol Limited and Lake Shore Limited trains. Sleeping car customers will choose from a variety of quality, fresh and ready-to-serve meals. Unlimited soft drinks, a complimentary serving of beer, wine or a mixed-drink and an amenity kit will also be offered to sleeping car customers.

Sleeping car customers will have the option to dine at available seating in the sleeping car lounge or can continue to be served in their bedrooms or roomettes.

Reservations for in room dining will be available in frequent intervals consistent with today’s standards and meals continue to be included in the sleeping car fare. A Kosher meal continues to be available with advance notice.

More information is available here

Thank you for choosing Amtrak.
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I received the same email just now (however addressed to me). My next scheduled trip on the Capitol Limited is mid July.
 
crescent-zephyr said:
Devil's Advocate said:
Overnight sleeper trains represent less than 1% of European passenger train inventory. When Americans say they want passenger service which is more like European trains this isn't what they're talking about.
Click to expand...
While I agree that Americans mean "high speed corridor trains" it really should be noted that many European trains are not high speed. The high speed corridors are fed by slower trains.
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In my experience, although they may not be able to fully articulate it, when Americans refer to "European trains" they generally mean the whole interconnected ecosystem. The faster speeds bringing distant cities and attractions within range of day trips and weekend excursions, higher frequency levels allowing more precise and/or more flexible scheduling, active but mostly open stations with more efficient access and a wider range of goods and services, numerous and frequent connecting options, and general ease of use.
 
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