Amtrak's New "Fresh Choices" Dining on CL & LSL

This bit about "no hot items" intrigues me. Even the airlines sell hot items in boxed meals in US domestic Y. What makes Amtrak stand out as being unable to do so given they have a whole kitchen capable of heating a few items available, puzzles me. Heck even the Cafe is able to handle that!

Thirdrail, any insights on that? Is it just a pure cost equation? Does a Hamburger and chips pack cost more than the ones that are shown as example on the menu? Afterall they do carry pre-packaged Burgers, Hot Dogs and Pizzas, as well as Jimmy Dean Breakfast Sandwiches in the Cafe. What gives?

If you purchased a reservation on one of these trains with downgraded service and want to cancel, I would register a complaint with your credit card to remove any fee. Amtrak has no intention of providing the service you contracted with them. Since they clearly state they will save millions of dollars with this, they are obviously not providing the service you paid for.

The breakfast choices look horrible too. Your choices are high carbohydrates, or high sugar. Thats what they hope will keep you on Amtrak. By making you obese, you won't fit in a 17" X 28" airline seat.

I've never had an Acela 1st class meal, but I would think that would make a much better meal with not much extra effort than the cold MREs that they're going to distribute.

Actually MREs are better since they come with a heating packet to get the food hot. Too much salt in most of those though.

Can you imagine how the employees feel about getting a "fresh" "choice" everyday.

John Bredin said:

The message announcing this makes it clear that this plan is not set in stone. We all know of experiments that Amtrak has tried and then withdrawn when they didn't work. Feeding back that an experiment once tried is a failure for particular reasons is right and proper. Feeding back that experiments should never be tried and have failed before they even begin is easily and rightly discounted as unhelpful.

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The most recent significant meal "experiment" occurred on the Silver Star. We all know how that turned out. Under this administration and in this climate, any experiment that doesn't completely fail, will generally stay. We are reaching the tipping point for service and amenities, only time will tell what's next.

Paul Dow said:

If you purchased a reservation on one of these trains with downgraded service and want to cancel, I would register a complaint with your credit card to remove any fee. Amtrak has no intention of providing the service you contracted with them. Since they clearly state they will save millions of dollars with this, they are obviously not providing the service you paid for.

The breakfast choices look horrible too. Your choices are high carbohydrates, or high sugar. Thats what they hope will keep you on Amtrak. By making you obese, you won't fit in a 17" X 28" airline seat.

I've never had an Acela 1st class meal, but I would think that would make a much better meal with not much extra effort than the cold MREs that they're going to distribute.

Actually MREs are better since they come with a heating packet to get the food hot. Too much salt in most of those though.

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I would first read the fine print on your ticket. Bet it says they reserve the right to make changes at any time.

The minefield surrounding food service has been laid by Congress over a number of years. Dancing around the issue has accomplished very little. Like or not, with the attitudes towards funding what they are, it should be increasingly obvious that the current system is unsustainable. I really enjoyed "community dining" particularly at breakfast when it was more likely to be seated with coach passengers (Amish, foreign tourists, young people on a budget), but in general, people's eating habits and preferences are changing, just look at the upheaval in the restaurant business, it has been very difficult for many chains to adopt. Blaming the person at the helm at this moment for things that were in the works for quite a while, or doing what is in essence inevitable show a lack of understanding of how large businesses operate. When you include the drinks and amenity kit, you may come up pretty close in cost to the food items served now, but you are looking at eliminating 1 if not 2 positions on each trip. Using the DC as a lounge at other times is actually a big plus for a train like the LSL, because of the split car for BC there was very little "hangout" space if you didn't want to stay trapped in your room or seat.

Paul Dow said:

The breakfast choices look horrible too. Your choices are high carbohydrates, or high sugar. Thats what they hope will keep you on Amtrak. By making you obese, you won't fit in a 17" X 28" airline seat.

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Indeed. Particularly since I hate cream cheese and dislike yogurt, meaning my breakfast would be a cold bagel with butter (I hate cream cheese), and some fruit. Compare that to the hot buttermilk pancakes or french toast with powdered sugar that I was offered before.

Seaboard92 said:

Amtrak's spinsters aka the Marketing Department clearly need an award for being able to turn a clear downgrade of service (especially towards coach passengers) into an exciting, "fresh new development. That is an incredible level of spinning that even I haven't obtained yet. And I thought my degree helped me out a lot

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Well, they get that award if they are successful in convincing people it's raining, not a dog pissing on their legs (with credit due Judge Judy).

From the comments here, they don't get the award. Let's see what the wider public thinks. They vote, and they vote with their wallets.

Ryan said:

chrsjrcj said:

Ryan said:

This may be a trade I can deal with if all of the whiners that eternally claim that they are going to stop riding actually do so, and stop posting here in the process.

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Might as well support dismantling the whole national system and shut this side down, then you'd never have to read any whining again.

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Nope. We literally have no idea what this food is like, and we have chicken little running around like the world is ending. God forbid we wait and see how this plays out before passing judgement. The litany is things that turn out better than the torches and pitchforks crowd makes them out to be is nearly endless.

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So what level of criticism are you willing to allow before you bring out your own pitchfork? I've never understood why you get a pass for attacking people's opinions as if you have any more right to judge them than they have to judge Amtrak.

Holy crap, a lot of people are posting here. There are 10 posts in the last 20 minutes.

spinnaker said:

Paul Dow said:

If you purchased a reservation on one of these trains with downgraded service and want to cancel, I would register a complaint with your credit card to remove any fee. Amtrak has no intention of providing the service you contracted with them. Since they clearly state they will save millions of dollars with this, they are obviously not providing the service you paid for.

The breakfast choices look horrible too. Your choices are high carbohydrates, or high sugar. Thats what they hope will keep you on Amtrak. By making you obese, you won't fit in a 17" X 28" airline seat.

I've never had an Acela 1st class meal, but I would think that would make a much better meal with not much extra effort than the cold MREs that they're going to distribute.

Actually MREs are better since they come with a heating packet to get the food hot. Too much salt in most of those though.

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I would first read the fine print on your ticket. Bet it says they reserve the right to make changes at any time.

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Exactly. It is quite likely that the contract is mostly to get you from point A to point B provided no Force Majeure intervenes. The rest of it may not be part of the contracts that you actually entered into, unfortunately. But hey, if you have the time and energy, give it a shot. You may get yourself an additional stash of AGR points. I doubt that the credit card company will pick a fight with Amtrak over it.

Devil's Advocate said:

Ryan said:

chrsjrcj said:

Ryan said:

This may be a trade I can deal with if all of the whiners that eternally claim that they are going to stop riding actually do so, and stop posting here in the process.

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Might as well support dismantling the whole national system and shut this side down, then you'd never have to read any whining again.

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Nope. We literally have no idea what this food is like, and we have chicken little running around like the world is ending. God forbid we wait and see how this plays out before passing judgement. The litany is things that turn out better than the torches and pitchforks crowd makes them out to be is nearly endless.

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So what level of criticism are you willing to allow before you bring out your own pitchfork? I've never understood why you get a pass for attacking people's opinions as if you have any more right to judge them than they have to judge Amtrak.

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There, now he is done with getting the pass. We'll just have to wait and see when his pitchfork comes out.

But, on the whole letting off steam here is good I think. It probably reduces the chance of someone actually going postal and causing real harm somewhere. Emotions are running high and they need to be dissipated somehow somewhere in a harmless way.

AcrossTheOcean said:

Looking at the pictures of the boxed meals, I think I am going to have to bring a lot of extra snacks when I ride the CL in late summer. There is no way the breakfast someone took a picture of will keep my bottomless pit of a 12 year-old from going hungry before 1 in the afternoon. Fortunately I have a few months to think about what to pack.

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What boxed meals are you looking at to make this definitive judgment? In this thread I see pictures of the Empire Builder cold meals, a VIA meal, and various existing Amtrak meals. I don't see pictures of the proposed boxed meals. Honest question; if there's a link to a picture of these proposed meals -- IMHO, impossible unless a contractor has already been selected, and unlikely even then because a contractor can tweak its offerings for a particular customer -- I'd love to see it.

cpotisch said:

Holy crap, a lot of people are posting here. There are 10 posts in the last 20 minutes.

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What I was going to mention. The good that comes out of all of this is it gets people talking.

Speaking of which. Is anyone planning on writing Amtrak? Email or snail mail?

My main complaint is how this was done. as I mentioned above this should have been decided last year if they were going to do it for this year.

spinnaker said:

cpotisch said:

Holy crap, a lot of people are posting here. There are 10 posts in the last 20 minutes.

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What I was going to mention. The good that comes out of all of this is it gets people talking.

Speaking of which. Is anyone planning on writing Amtrak? Email or snail mail?

My main complaint is how this was done. as I mentioned above this should have been decided last year if they were going to do it for this year.

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At minimum they really should allow for free cancellations. Maybe if you make a big fuss with customer relations, they'll give in.

Devil's Advocate said:

I've never understood why you get a pass for attacking people's opinions as if you have any more right to judge them than they have to judge Amtrak.

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As you've demonstrated, I don't get a pass. Anything I post is subject to the same amount of critisism thta I dole out.
As far as what level of critisism is appropriate, I think that it's just important to stick to the facts and wait until we know something before casting judegement. Maybe that's just crazy and old fashioned.

cpotisch said:

At minimum they really should allow for free cancellations. Maybe if you make a big fuss with customer relations, they'll give in.

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By way of example, this is a reasonable ask, and something that Amtrak should do.

Disputing with your credit card is a whole different story. You bought a ticket to get you from Point A to Point B - that's still going to happen.

If you look at this logically....

This is a major operational change. The SCA's will be expected to do more work (deliver more meals and drinks), the LSA in the sleeper lounge will have a very different job than prior. These operational changes need to happen first... And then when they see what does and doesn't work, they can tweak some other changes like hot entrees. Eliminating the "heating up" process keeps that from being a large bump in the road as this process gets rolled out.

For historical reference, when simplified dining came out all we had was the Bob Evans breakfast scramble.... Eventually it was decided that 1 chef could handle scrambled eggs, but not "eggs any way" so fresh scrambled eggs came back on the menu, but not eggs cooked any way like it was prior to SDS. Meaning we went from fresh eggs cooked anyway... To a prepackaged egg bowl (huge downgrade) to fresh scrambled eggs.

I think there are some really smart possibilities for extra revenue with a sleeper lounge. If you can offer an espresso bar for the mornings, a wine and cheese plate in the afternoons, and deluxe desserts in the evennings... If done right this could be a positive for passengers and for revenue.

From where I sit, really logically, I'm ready to pass on future Amtrak travel given the cost, declining quality, indifferent service, difficulty getting to / from stations, etc.

My last trip, on the Texas Eagle, is pretty instructive. My economy sleeper was a S-1 refurb, but which was showing it's age. Lots of rattles, the AC wasn't working that great, and the ceiling panels looked grimy. Shower walls dull, no juice out, bottled water was available, but no ice. As I looked around the car, I couldn't help but notice that in Bedroom A (which had been listed as available 24 hours earlier for DFW - CHI for $580 one way) had a big chunk of duct tape holding a ceiling panel up, and other rooms looked tired with loose drapes and iffy carpet. So a real bargain.

As I sat in my room, the conductor and another attendant were running by at one point because something was going on in the transdorm, a leak which made the car smell bad. I looked ahead and could see towels all over the carpet in front of the center top shower.

The diner was well run at least (it was the typical CCC), with the standard Amtrak fare.

The sightseer lounge was a S-1 rebuild but was extremely tired. Panels around the windows were bulging from all the coats of paint over the years, and the bins / railings around the chairs were dirty and worn.

Now, I spent roughly 2 1/2 times as much to take the train as to fly. It was an OK trip, but not super special. Looking through dirty windows at the passing scenery, the main thought that kept going through my mind is how old the equipment is and why aren't we looking at new equipment. I just don't see in the current Amtrak leadership any appreciation of the LD rail service map. I know at least two of my dining companions on the trip who were similarly frustrated by the quality of the trip, one of whom was in the transdorm and was frustrated by the condition of her car, and another who boarded at a rural station that was untended and it gave them the creeps.

spinnaker said:

Maybe I am naive but aren't the meals with diner cars made to order? If so, how can there be any waste there? Just keep the raw food refrigerated for the next run. With pre-prepared meals I see a lot of potential for waste.

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Paging neroden I think this is your department.

spinnaker said:

Maybe I am naive but aren't the meals with diner cars made to order? If so, how can there be any waste there? Just keep the raw food refrigerated for the next run. With pre-prepared meals I see a lot of potential for waste.

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The only thing I can say is "made to order" with a straight face is the steak. Eggs are supposedly cooked on board but you can't order them any way other than scrambled. Potatoes are baked on board but that process is started long before you arrive at the table. Other than that nearly everything else is precooked, frozen/refrigerated, and then merely reheated before serving.

I’m just curious. If they do offer the cold sleeper meals to coach passengers, how much do you think they would charge? What F & B revenue value do you think Amtrak will cost out each cold sleeper meal?

fixj said:

I’m just curious. If they do offer the cold sleeper meals to coach passengers, how much do you think they would charge? What F & B revenue value do you think Amtrak will cost out each cold sleeper meal?

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Too much.

How much is too much?

All of this might resurrect the "calling ahead and having a pizza delivered to the train" discussions.

How about train-side food vendors (if allowed) a-la the "burrito lady" in ELP? Of course, if the train is late and the stop is cut short that might not always work.

http://www.amtrakfoodfacts.com/ Take a look at each item. Pretty much everything is a "kit" or sous-vide meaning it comes pre bagged or "made by" on the current menu for the LSL.

- The steak on the LSL is also sous-vide and not cooked to order. Learned something new today.

- Correct me if I'm wrong but it looks like on the LSL, everything is just reheat, slap on Amtrak plastic plate and serve.

- Even the omelet on the LSL isn't cooked fresh and just assembled from precooked items including the eggs.

- I'm also guessing that the "kits" are single heat and serve a la tv dinner or boxed meals.