Given the Perfect Scenario, Could A Train Go BOS-NYP-WAS Non-Stop?

My insight is just tea leaf readings. Nothing more or less.

Amtrak continue to state Acela is a money maker.

Regionals do not make money per Amtrak.

Buying more Acela type of trainsets.

Been stated before by people other than Thirdrail7 to make more money requires more Acela service. Limited slots available. So replace the money losing regionals trains with the money making Acela trains is a possibility if not the plan.

Also good money on the Slivers + Crescent get turn at Washington DC back to Florida/NOL. Another few slot been used poorly.

My max length regionals idea is a off peak, all stop service. Maybe with baggage. The people who need to connect with trains outside of the NEC, that is a different and lower price point then the Acela trains. Even if you just time it to connect with long distance trains, your going to have a market. Both the connecting trains and a group of people who need to travel but the Acela is outside of there means.

Just two train, one in each direction would be need. Ok maybe 3 each direction for 6 a day. If your including 66+67.

This way more slots are available for the Acela trains, and there a lower cost product for those who dont have a time sensitive travel. If price a few seats at lost leader price point. You get to fight with the bus people for there crowds. First 64 (one coach) seats at one dollars. There your hook. People will check out the times and price available. Still might go with the bus or grab a Acela. But now your in play.

Again Amtrak does really compete with anyone. When the economy tanked, they refused to lower prices as they would just lose more money. There no real supply and demand. There thinking is only the Acela makes money.

So the tea leafs say more Acela less regionals.

However you still have trains going off NEC so you need something other than a long extension cord.

Just-Thinking-51 said:

My insight is just tea leaf readings. Nothing more or less.

Amtrak continue to state Acela is a money maker.

Regionals do not make money per Amtrak.

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Whaaaatt?? The Regionals do make money for Amtrak, good money, based on the Route performance results. In the September, 2017 monthly report (unaudited), which is on the website, and is in the new less informative shorter format, the Regionals generated a net surplus of $206.7 million in operating earnings for FY2017. The Acelas generated more money with a net surplus of $290.5 million, but the Regionals are doing fine. The Regionals also carry far more passengers on the NEC with 8.57 million in FY2017 compared to 3.44 million passengers on the Acelas.

The goal of the 28 trainset Acela II order is to expand capacity and capture more revenue from the Acela set or group of business & well heeled travelers on the NEC, not to replace the Regionals in any way.

The quick math says $84/passenger net surplus on Acelas and $24/passenger on the Regionals. Tweaking supply and demand to push some Regional passengers to Acela and extract more revenue from the rest seems like an obvious strategy.

The question becomes, though: could Amtrak actually net more income (not just revenue, but income) by trying to more heavily handicap the Regionals? Sure, some would switch to Acela, but many on the lower end of the ticket pricing would go to the bus services instead (netting Amtrak $0 in revenue instead of the $50-$75 they get now from low bucket or Saver fares.) Some in the middle might move to either driving or the air shuttles; part of what keeps them on Amtrak is that it's cost efficient compared to the non-bus alternatives, but a significant price increase might shoo them away entirely.

Amtrak may not have the right balance at this moment, but I think any significant move to handicap the Regionals to try and steer business to the Acela would backfire more than it would help Amtrak's balance sheet.

Is the NEC really severely slot restricted except in NJ and CT during certain hours, and part of the CT slot limitation east of NHV is an artificial creation to pander to rich boaters.

jis said:

Is the NEC really severely slot restricted except in NJ and CT during certain hours, and part of the CT slot limitation east of NHV is an artificial creation to pander to rich boaters.

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CT slot limitation:

A issue that can be revisited.

A issue for weekends and holidays.

A issue that does not apply to state funded services.

NJ and the tunnel is not a easy fix.

Just-Thinking-51 said:

jis said:

Is the NEC really severely slot restricted except in NJ and CT during certain hours, and part of the CT slot limitation east of NHV is an artificial creation to pander to rich boaters.

Click to expand...

CT slot limitation:

A issue that can be revisited.

A issue for weekends and holidays.

A issue that does not apply to state funded services.

NJ and the tunnel is not a easy fix.

Click to expand...

But the tunnel related slot limitations in NJ on weekdays are mostly during the morning and evening rush hours. Actually the slot limitation through the North River Tubes on weekends due to single tracking is probably a more severe problem. but that being on weekends also does not have to carry as much traffic. Actually, for the time being most of the slot problems through the tunnels could probably be addressed by simply banishing all Morris and Essex Line trains to Hoboken and dealing with at least a few of the NEC/NJCL NJT train by either turning them in Newark or sending them off to Hoboken instead of NYP

I think there is a lot that could be done with time table juggling, which is possibly socio-politically infeasible due to the fractured nature of governance of the NEC. Perhaps if the NEC Commission had real teeth things could be handled more rationally, both for traffic management and financial management.

While a lot of what is being said is true, we are looking at current conditions. We are not look taking the projected future into account. We are not looking at the prospect of more LIRR service entering the station. We are not looking a Metro-North's plan to run through Penn Station. We are not looking at desire to operate RVL trains into Penn.

These will cause FUTURE slot limitations. Personally, I agree with Jis. Sure the tunnels need replacing but if there were reasonable use of the surrounding resources, a lot of this stuff wouldn't be necessary.

I've said it for years: there is too much traffic in NYP and there is NO excuse for it. It shows a lack of imagination and a lack of diversification of resources. The agencies are marching in a straight line, following the tempo, without seeing the crowd around them.

There is no excuse for not using the assets surrounding New York. The "Summer of Hell" was brilliant and showed what I've said for years is possible. Send some of the MidClowns back to Hoboken. Send some the NEC trains there as well. Kill some of the PJC snob expresses and let them stop at North Elizabeth like the Coast Line passengers. Speaking of Coast Line passengers, divert some of them to Hoboken...and let them ride ferries and PATH. NYC is surrounded by water. the only part of NYC not surrounded by water is the Bronx, which is has water on three sides. Now that the 7 train has been extended to Hudson Yards on 11th ave, there is NO excuse for not having a subsidized ferry from Hoboken to that station. You can come right from Hoboken station to the NYC with a direct connection. You can have some of the Coast Line passengers do this from South Amboy and Belford, just as they did when the gas prices exploded. Wrong Island passengers can do the same.

What happened to Penn when all of these trains were diverted? it operated smoothly.

Build the piers!!!!!!

Third Rail and jis need to be hired as Consultants for Amtrak and given authority to create realistic,common sense Schedules ALL NE Trains in/out of the Apple.

Ryan said:

Clearly WAS-BWI-NYP is the only stopping pattern than makes sense.

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No, no. WAS-BAL-NYP-BOS is the only way to go.

By the way, how much time would that really save for through travelers? I recently rode the Acela up to BOS and back to BAL. Stops were: WIL, PHL, NWK, NYP STM, NHV, PVD, RTE, BBY and BOS and it took about 6 hours. How much time would you really save if it ran nonstop (or only a stop at NYP)?