Emp Serv to GCT, LSL NYP Suspended, Other NYP Changes 2018

cpotisch said:

AmtrakBlue said:

cpotisch said:

jis said:

Summer is actually not peak travel at Penn Station New York apparently. It is more like slow traffic time with schools off and people off on vacations elsewhere and such. That summer peak traffic is more of an LD thing. Not for commuter service, which is most of the traffic into and out of Penn Station..

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It is peak for the Chicago trains.

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2 trains vs how many commuter trains?

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Yes, thousands. But this track work sabotages all Empire Corridor trains. And those trains have peak ridership in the summer and early fall. Obviously this isn’t gonna happen, but wouldn’t winter be the ideal time to close those tracks?

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Sabotages? Nobody is sabotaging those trains. Track work is seriously needed and Amtrak, who knows its ridership, seems to think this to be the best time to do the track work. No matter when the track work is done, passengers are going to be inconvenienced.


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cpotisch said:

Yes, thousands. But this track work sabotages all Empire Corridor trains. And those trains have peak ridership in the summer and early fall. Obviously this isn’t gonna happen, but wouldn’t winter be the ideal time to close those tracks?

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Poppycock! It does not sabotage any Albany train. They just run from GCT.

Only trains affected are four beyond Albany trains which includes the Lake Shore Limited.

I am sure the well being of the 428 other movements in Penn Station per day are considered to be way more important by all the stakeholders of Penn Station, including Amtrak. I am sure Amtrak would hate to lose movements on the NEC due to track failures, and even the Empire Corridor and Lake Shore Limited users will be displeased with unscheduled outages due to problems with the Spuyten Duyvil bridge, if it is not given the TLC of preventive maintenance in a planned shudown. That sort of thing is done by all responsible owners of infrastructure everywhere in the world.

The problem with closing in winter is that typically very little work gets done in the winter, so it is very inefficient to try to get such work done in the winter.

In short my friend, you are whistling in the wind.

cpotisch said:

jis said:

Summer is actually not peak travel at Penn Station New York apparently. It is more like slow traffic time with schools off and people off on vacations elsewhere and such. That summer peak traffic is more of an LD thing. Not for commuter service, which is most of the traffic into and out of Penn Station..

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It is peak for the Chicago trains.

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[citation needed]

If you can’t manage a time table, I’m going to have to see the data behind that assertion.

blueman271 said:

jis said:

cpotisch said:

65/66/67 are all overnights from BOS to NPN, right?

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You know? You could crack open a timetable at amtrak.com and get these elementary questions answered for yourself

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God forbid somebody come to an Amtrak forum and ask questions about Amtrak. How dare he!

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Give a man a fish, and he’ll be hungry in a few hours. Teach him to fish and he’ll be able to fend for himself.

The kid is wandering around like a small child that wanders into a theater in the middle of the movie and asked incessant questions about what’s going on. Time to be a big boy and learn for yourself that which is simple.

jis said:

I am sure the well being of the 428 other movements in Penn Station per day are considered to be way more important by all the stakeholders of Penn Station, including Amtrak. I am sure Amtrak would hate to lose movements on the NEC due to track failures, and even the Empire Corridor and Lake Shore Limited users will be displeased with unscheduled outages due to problems with the Spuyten Duyvil bridge, if it is not given the TLC of preventive maintenance in a planned shudown. That sort of thing is done by all responsible owners of infrastructure everywhere in the world.

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Especially given that many people use more than one stakeholder's trains, and if the mental association of "Amtrak" is "the guys who ruin my commute", said person is not likely to consider using Amtrak for their intercity travels. There's enough such people, let's not make more.

cpotisch said:

jis said:

Summer is actually not peak travel at Penn Station New York apparently. It is more like slow traffic time with schools off and people off on vacations elsewhere and such. That summer peak traffic is more of an LD thing. Not for commuter service, which is most of the traffic into and out of Penn Station..

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It is peak for the Chicago trains.

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Which is why they are still running the train. Just like they ran the Crescent and shuttled the passengers. I'm not sure what the big deal is....particularly since not ONE of the people in this thread (myself included) have the final plan.

I'm sure you're fine with the crews trying to work on an underground tunnel and a movable bridge that is 118 years old during the the short, cold days of the winters. However, you tend to get more work done when you have the long days of summer....which is why most major track projects occur in the summer.

The funny thing is you're second guessing and criticizing a plan that isn't even made. Meanwhile, the passengers for the Adirondack, Maple Leaf and Ethan Allen haven't uttered a peep.

This is why nothing gets done.

Thirdrail7 said:

cpotisch said:

jis said:

Summer is actually not peak travel at Penn Station New York apparently. It is more like slow traffic time with schools off and people off on vacations elsewhere and such. That summer peak traffic is more of an LD thing. Not for commuter service, which is most of the traffic into and out of Penn Station..

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It is peak for the Chicago trains.

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The funny thing is you're second guessing and criticizing a plan that isn't even made. Meanwhile, the passengers for the Adirondack, Maple Leaf and Ethan Allen haven't uttered a peep.

This is why nothing gets done.

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Are they being forced to change trains? That's why.

And if the Broadway were still running, CHI-NYP passengers wouldn't have to change trains either.

So if I'm following the logic here... because a 100-200 passengers a day may be forced to change trains in ALB, Amtrak should scuttle this plan and more inconvience the 1000s of commuters going in and out of NYP every day.

And as has been pointed out, some of the work is to be done on the Spuyten Duyvil bridge. Amtrak should postpone that to what, the winter?

You know, I suspect if as much time spent hand-wringing over this was spent on lobbying for more money, Amtrak would be flush with cash.

Philly Amtrak Fan said:

Thirdrail7 said:

The funny thing is you're second guessing and criticizing a plan that isn't even made. Meanwhile, the passengers for the Adirondack, Maple Leaf and Ethan Allen haven't uttered a peep.

This is why nothing gets done.

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Are they being forced to change trains? That's why.

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Although the plan is subject to change, let's see what the FIRST TWO POSTS of this thread stated:

Thirdrail7 said:

Now that things are firming up, there is great chance that NO Empire service will operate into NYP this summer. The majority will be diverted to GCT while some of the longer distance trains (e.g. the Adirondack) may terminate in ALB.

Keep a sharp watch.

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Northeastern292 said:

Last I heard is that everything south of ALB will be shuttle service with everything north and west originating in either ALB or (in the case of the Lake Shore) BOS.

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So, YES Phillyfan, if things hold, those passengers MAY have to transfer as well.

Philly Amtrak Fan said:

And if the Broadway were still running, CHI-NYP passengers wouldn't have to change trains either.

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They don;t have to. Thanks to Senator Byrd, The Cardinal is around to help them out! It's a good thing he was elected, instead of your neighbor, Stephen Bloom who doesn't even want to fund another Pennsylvanian....let alone another long distance train.

I think it would be worth the slight inconvenience of changing trains in Albany, if that means getting to use Grand Central instead of Penn Station. Perhaps at Grand Central, they'll even have a reasonable boarding process.

Until Amtrak announces its plans were are just yelling into the wind !

bms said:

I think it would be worth the slight inconvenience of changing trains in Albany, if that means getting to use Grand Central instead of Penn Station. Perhaps at Grand Central, they'll even have a reasonable boarding process.

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If you prefer Grand Central you could always change to Metro-North at Poughkeepsie or Croton-Harmon.

Thirdrail7 said:

cpotisch said:

jis said:

Summer is actually not peak travel at Penn Station New York apparently. It is more like slow traffic time with schools off and people off on vacations elsewhere and such. That summer peak traffic is more of an LD thing. Not for commuter service, which is most of the traffic into and out of Penn Station..

Click to expand...

It is peak for the Chicago trains.

Click to expand...

Which is why they are still running the train. Just like they ran the Crescent and shuttled the passengers. I'm not sure what the big deal is....particularly since not ONE of the people in this thread (myself included) have the final plan.

I'm sure you're fine with the crews trying to work on an underground tunnel and a movable bridge that is 118 years old during the the short, cold days of the winters. However, you tend to get more work done when you have the long days of summer....which is why most major track projects occur in the summer.

The funny thing is you're second guessing and criticizing a plan that isn't even made. Meanwhile, the passengers for the Adirondack, Maple Leaf and Ethan Allen haven't uttered a peep.

This is why nothing gets done.

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Clearly the weight of evidence is against me. I should have done more research/thinking before posting. So I do apologize for that.

brianpmcdonnell17 said:

bms said:

I think it would be worth the slight inconvenience of changing trains in Albany, if that means getting to use Grand Central instead of Penn Station. Perhaps at Grand Central, they'll even have a reasonable boarding process.

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If you prefer Grand Central you could always change to Metro-North at Poughkeepsie or Croton-Harmon.

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Change... trains? Do those words go together without one of the Horsemen making an appearance?

There's plenty of historic precedent for this. Until the West Side Connector was built all these trains (including the LSL) ran into GCT. Amtrak managed to stock the cafe cars and LSL diner and ran a shuttle bus all day between the NYC stations. It was awkward, but it worked. (BTW, back in the day the Amtrak designations for the NYC stations were NYG and NYP - should we use those again?)

Actually the three New York City codes are

NYG-Grand Central Terminal.

NYP- Pennsylvania Station.

NYS- Sunnyside Yard

And here is a bonus one.

HUD- Hudson Tower in New Jersey. It's a PV destination.

Grand Central is still NYG. It never changed to anything else. And of course Penn Station is still NYP. That also has never changed. NYC is not a station code (nor a specific airport code either).

Seaboard92 said:

Actually the three New York City codes are

NYG-Grand Central Terminal.
NYP- Pennsylvania Station.
NYS- Sunnyside Yard

And here is a bonus one.
HUD- Hudson Tower in New Jersey. It's a PV destination.

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Isn't Sunnyside SSYD or something like that?

HUD is the code for Hudson NY Amtrak station on the Empire Corridor. So the code for Hudson tower is some secret designation which probably confuses folks a bit too. Not something that is visible to the public through any reservation system.

Palmetto said:

dlagrua said:

frequentflyer said:

Or send the pax down to WAS to take the Capital Ltd.

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The LSL leaves NYC at 3:45 PM, The CL leaves WAS around 4 PM. A typical Amtrak connecting train would get you into WAS about 1-2 PM for the layover. That means a NY departure on the regional to WAS would have to be around 10-11 AM. This extends the NYP-CHI trip 5-6 hours to about 25 hours. Then there is no luggage service until you arrive in WAS so you are limited to the small carry on's. .That sounds like it won't be a good alternative. ..

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I did that, and I think it's a great alternative. And being in sleeper class, I used the Met Lounge in DC. If one is in a hurry, then one should not be taking the train IMHO. If Amtrak wanted to, they could put a baggage car on an NER down to DC to solve the no-baggage-problem. I think they did that recently when the Crescent was terminating in DC instead of New York.

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Agreed. I live in CT 60 miles out of NYC. Been through Chicago many times and most often take the NEC-CL alternative mostly because it's easier to find roomettes on the Capital over the LSL. The timing is not much different. For me catching the train in Bridgeport it's still one transfer either in NYP for the LSL or WAS for the CL.

JoeBas said:

Change... trains? Do those words go together without one of the Horsemen making an appearance?

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Either the Horsemen or the words Broadway, Pittsburgh and/or Limited seem to appear.

jis said:

Grand Central is still NYG. It never changed to anything else. And of course Penn Station is still NYP. That also has never changed. NYC is not a station code (nor a specific airport code either).

Seaboard92 said:

Actually the three New York City codes are

NYG-Grand Central Terminal.

NYP- Pennsylvania Station.

NYS- Sunnyside Yard

And here is a bonus one.

HUD- Hudson Tower in New Jersey. It's a PV destination.

Click to expand...

Isn't Sunnyside SSDY or something like that?

HUD is the code for Hudson NY Amtrak station on the Empire Corridor. So the code for Hudson tower is some secret designation which probably confuses folks a bit too. Not something that is visible to the public through any reservation system.

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SSYD is the currently used. NYS was used in the past but the Hell Gate Line is designated NYS for instructions and operations. It caused confusion.

The same goes for Hudson Yard. For private cars, HUD is often used on the manifests. However, to avoid confusion with Hudson, New York, the proper designation is XHU. This caused problems for Hunter (the former XHU), which is now X94.

Add the Cardinal into the discussion.

Starting with 50(29MAR2018) & 51(01APR2018), the Cardnial will not operate North of Washington until further notice.

KnightRail said:

Add the Cardinal into the discussion.

Starting with 50(29MAR2018) & 51(01APR2018), the Cardnial will not operate North of Washington until further notice.

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Here come the Superliners.....(again)?

KnightRail said:

Add the Cardinal into the discussion.

Starting with 50(29MAR2018) & 51(01APR2018), the Cardnial will not operate North of Washington until further notice.

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As predicted and eluded to:

Thirdrail7 said:

cpotisch said:

dlagrua said:

I don't see this as a good move for Amtrak. The LSL is one of Amtrak's most crowded trains and the New York-Chicago passengers will be left with the 3 day Cardinal as the only choice. Problem is that the Cardinal is a small train with one or two sleepers, a cafe car and maybe three coaches. That train could not possibly take the additional passenger load. Moving the LSL temporarily to Grand Central station makes the most sense.

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Exactly! The tiny, 3-day, frequently sold out Cardinal, would take on the passenger load of a LONG, DAILY, frequently sold out train. There are a lot of people who want a one-seat ride from NYC to Chicago. This will interfere with all of them.

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OlympianHiawatha said:

If this pans out, hopefully someone at Amtrak will figure out how to beef up the consists on the Cardinal and Cap to get pax to Washington and then run them on up to NYC via Regional or Acela.

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And what makes you so sure the Cardinal will still operate to NYP during this outage?

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I see it will not have connections, which is what plagued the CHI-NYP via WAS operation in the past. Once the decimation of the popular city pairs is complete, PhillyAmtrakFan may have his wish....by the end of the summer.

KnightRail said:

Add the Cardinal into the discussion.

Starting with 50(29MAR2018) & 51(01APR2018), the Cardnial will not operate North of Washington until further notice.

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I don't see that on the site. Could you please post the link or page?

EDIT: On the booking page, the Cardinal indeed does not seem to be operating past WAS, but don't see it actually listed as a service alert.

cpotisch said:

KnightRail said:

Add the Cardinal into the discussion.

Starting with 50(29MAR2018) & 51(01APR2018), the Cardnial will not operate North of Washington until further notice.

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I don't see that on the site. Could you please post the link or page?

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Perhaps it was in an internal memo. But I can verify it as someone posted on FB that their IND-PHL (or somewhere north of WAS) rez for sometime this summer showed only IND-WAS on the ticket.