Proposals for Restored Gulf Coast Service

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17 drawbridges ? what is needed is the current openings that occur or maybe just the closings if that is what some draw bridges do ? Traffic thru the bridge openings and times would need documenting as well. Any calendar differences ? You take the train schedule and match them to the boat transit times with tide tables as well if tides affect the bridge transits. What bridges not manned full time ? Not so simple is it ?
 
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If the service does get restored, would it make more sense to route it through Jacksonville or Orlando, FL?
The route from New Orleans passes through Jacksonville before turning south to Orlando.
True, but I wasn't sure which would be the ideal stop based on Amtrak revenue and/or passenger preferences.
 
If the service does get restored, would it make more sense to route it through Jacksonville or Orlando, FL?
The route from New Orleans passes through Jacksonville before turning south to Orlando.
True, but I wasn't sure which would be the ideal stop based on Amtrak revenue and/or passenger preferences.
It has to go somewhere to get serviced and turned. The Sanford shops north of Orlando will handle that.

But seriously, which is the more popular destination, Jacksonville or Disney World?

The to-be-restored line has been carefully worked out. Give the study some study.

www.newsherald.com/assets/pdf/DA2111216.PDF
 
Local newspaper: Gulf Coast wants two trains: One NOL to Orlando, the other NOL to Mobile.

http://www.sunherald.com/news/politics-government/article162135023.html
That Mobile-New Orleans route will be a great corridor someday.
If it gets built before sea level rise floods that coastline. At the current rate.... I'm thinking not.

I wish advocates in these states the best of luck in spending local money on this project, but I would prioritize routes which aren't going to get washed out.
 
It was just announced on another list that CSX has put up the Tallahassee and PA subdivisions for sale. These stretch from Baldwin to Pensacola. I'm sure this throws a monkey wrench into the entire non-moving process. But it sure can't help to dream what it would be like if Amtrak could buy this line.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Amtrak Forum mobile app
 
It was just announced on another list that CSX has put up the Tallahassee and PA subdivisions for sale. These stretch from Baldwin to Pensacola. I'm sure this throws a monkey wrench into the entire non-moving process. But it sure can't help to dream what it would be like if Amtrak could buy this line.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Amtrak Forum mobile app
On the one hand it throws a monkey wrench in the works since there would likely be yet another operator on the route in question. On the other hand, I rather suspect that a Class II/III railroad is probably more likely to be friendly towards the guaranteed paycheck that Amtrak would offer (a daily Sunset East over perhaps 300 miles of track would offer about 219,000 train-miles; multiply as appropriate to sort out the annual paycheck) with virtually no cost towards the railroad in question than CSX has been. If it came with, say, $50-100m in track improvements and the like then I'd be hard to see the railroad in question turning it down. The only real risk on that side is that Amtrak might have to pick up more of the maintenance bill than they would otherwise.

The real risk, though, is simply the addition of another party to the process (and with it, room for finger-pointing about delays if the train were to get started).
 
... CSX has put up the Tallahassee and PA subdivisions for sale. ... from Baldwin to Pensacola.
CSX, 2017: "That stretch is vital to our system. Putting any Amtrak trains on it will seriously disrupt our freight operations. We'll need a Billion for upgrades to avoid harm to our core business."

CSX, 2018: "We don't even need those tracks in Florida for our freight business. See if we can unload them on a short-line or some other sucker."

(Edit: Removed quote marks, but then restored them. I don't believe a reader should think that CSX would so bluntly say "unload them on a short-line or some other sucker". The cartoonish language reveals that it is a paraphrase for editorial effect, not a real quote.)
 
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CSX, 2017: "That stretch is vital to our system. Putting any Amtrak trains on it will seriously disrupt our freight operations. We'll need a Billion for upgrades to avoid harm to our core business."

CSX, 2018: "We don't even need those tracks in Florida for our freight business. See if we can unload them on a short-line or some other sucker."
The quotation marks used above imply these are actual statements (verbal or written) by CSX. If so, the source should be given. If not, they should be deleted.
 
CSX, 2017: "That stretch is vital to our system. Putting any Amtrak trains on it will seriously disrupt our freight operations. We'll need a Billion for upgrades to avoid harm to our core business."

CSX, 2018: "We don't even need those tracks in Florida for our freight business. See if we can unload them on a short-line or some other sucker."
The quotation marks used above imply these are actual statements (verbal or written) by CSX. If so, the source should be given. If not, they should be deleted.

Assuming the subs are for sale, even if they didn't directly say it, it couldn't be more clear. Haven't you heard Niemi24s? Actions speak LOUDER than words.
 
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So, just to wonder, but how much of that $1bn or so in improvements was on these two subs?
Actually, I don't recall an exact amounted demanded by CSX, or where they wanted to spend it. I just heard that they asked so much altogether that it seemed to stop the discussion. But the dark, unsignaled stretch (where the new train is to run overnight) lies between Pensacola and Tallahassee. My hunch is that's where a lot of money could be spent.
 
CSX could run New Orleans - Waycross freight via Montgomery and Lagrange. The underlying issue is that CSX is deemphasizing east-west freight interchange in New Orleans in favor of Memphis, which does not have the hurricane vulnerability or the drawbridge irritations.

I doubt a shortline buyer of Pensacola-Baldwin, even G&W, would have any enthusiasm for Class IV track. Class III is the best that could be hoped for in that scenario. It wouldn't make much difference to the dark territory which is 59 mph anyway, but it would on the signaled territory. The real question is whether Pensacola-Baldwin would be allowed to fall to Class II.
 
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Ideally SRC through government funding should simply acquire the trackage from CSX and setup a compact for maintaining and running it by contracting with or leasing to an outfit capable of doing so. As Neroden often says, gaining ownership of the property is the best way to enable a viable and user friendly passenger service. As for whether the states will develop adequate intestinal fortitude to do so is a different matter.

Offered enough money, almost anyone will develop and enthusiasm.
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Look at what UP has been enthusiastically doing in California!
 
With the additional funding Amtrak received for the FY 2018 budget, if this is going to happen it will be this year. In Amtrak's 5 year plan, working on the Gulf Coast project was the only route specifically mentioned and it fits in with Anderson's emphasis on corridor services in areas were the economy is growing. But, I still think the best we can hope for, at least in the near term, is service between New Orleans and Mobile. It avoids extremely expensive track and signal upgrades.

And, that segment of the route is where the money is in terms of the gulf coast casinos for the tourists and upscale beach communities as well as a growing Mobile metro area. It also might be a justification for improving the CONO if it used to provide the crew/equipment for the service. Mobile is also the logical spot for Thruway bus connections. Time to Pensacola is about 50 min, the Sunset took 2.5 hours because of the circuitous routing via Flomaton. Tallahassee is 3.5 hours from Mobile on the highway compared to 7 on the Sunset.
 
At least that will let the reluctant Florida DOT off the hook.
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They can then say it is not their problem and the Florida cities will most likely lose enthusiasm too. Very few wish to subsidize a bus operation, so they won't from the Florida end.

I don't understand the logic of why any of this will help improve the CONO. In any case only a few cars from CONO were going to run through using NOL based crew.
 
Good points, jls. Regarding improvements to CONO, I guess I was naively hoping Amtrak might market the train as a through route to the Gulf Coast and upgrade the dining/lounge to be comparable to other LD trains. But as we know, Amtrak doesn’t do marketing well.

I had never thought about who pays for Thruway connections. If it is alway the state and not Amtrak, you are probably right. But who knows, Florida might see it as an opportunity to promote a connection to the national rail network from that area. That would be especially so if the bus connection went beyond Pensacola to the beach communities along US 98: Destin, Fort Walton Beach, and Panama City beach.
 
....That would be especially so if the bus connection went beyond Pensacola to the beach communities along US 98: Destin, Fort Walton Beach, and Panama City beach.
US-98 has become so congested from P'cola eastward that it's just not viable for transportation any more. Sections that used to be open highway are now urban sprawl with a stop-light every 1/4 mile. Going from P'cola to say, Port St. Joe, I'd never consider going 98. Rather, I'd take I-10 then down SR-71 through Blountstown and Wewahitchka, even though that's a much longer route. US-98 is just that bad.
 
I think any funding is better than no funding, but I'm going to be the skeptical one and start writing some letters demanding an explanation as to how $35 million in funding is supposed to get this project anywhere.

The Southern Rail Commission has a small budget which it is responsible for, but they have not been notorious for spending that money wisely. Most members of the commission have no experience whatsoever with class I railroads, MPOs, Passenger rail or public transit authorities, or anything of the like. Despite my finicky attitude on how this was done, I am going to hope that the $35 million is spent in the right places (i.e. facilitating the extension of a couple of sidings and building a small track in Mobile to park small corridor trains for a same day turnaround to NOL).
 
I sometimes wish that diesel cars hadn't been banned. The NOLA-MOB run would be perfect for a pair of diesel cars.
 
I sometimes wish that diesel cars hadn't been banned. The NOLA-MOB run would be perfect for a pair of diesel cars.
There are DMUs available now that are not banned.
It certainly would seem more efficient that dragging a typical Amtrak consist on what amounts to a 4-hour (145 mi) commuter run. Since the proposal cited in the Sun-Herald (above) is for two trains per day, one of them could be a FRA-compliant DMU. The other could be the extension of CONO.
 
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