Viewliner II Part 2: Dining Car Production, Delivery, Speculation

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Here we go again
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People looking for magic numbers and arguing about it
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Would you please explain to me why you think Amtrak is in a mad Escape From New York style dash to add back a full service dining car to the Lake Shore?

I mean, Im sure theyd like to get a return on their new dining car investment, but Im sure that when they announce a Diner back on to the Lake Shore, likely with great fan fare, they want to be sure that it wont get subbed out again a lot more than they want to change car types.

I mean, what you are implying is a bit silly: a quasi governmental organization rushing to do something without at least some kind of deadline? Thats patently absurd.
 
cpotisch said:
Yeah. I more meant as a sort of theoretically-if-everything-goes-right kind of scenario.
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In theory, the dining car could have been restored to the Lake Shore Limited or Silver Star for some time now; There remain a few Heritage cars technically still serviceable (think Thirdrail mentioned several just now falling off the active roster). Thirteen or Eighteen cars doesn't necessarily mean a thing.

But even if a full diner were quickly restored, how do you know the menu would be simultaneously expanded to something more than the Amfleet II ("diner lite") lounge can already handle?

jis said:
Here we go again
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People looking for magic numbers and arguing about it
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So, it is confirmed that 3.14159 dining cars are required for a full (dessert) menu to return to the trains. Good to know.
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jis said:
Here we go again
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People looking for magic numbers and arguing about it
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There must be some amazing prize unbeknownst to some of us for guessing correctly. Seriously though, deployment happens when it happens. Enough of the magic numbers crystal ball hypothetical scenario guessing. Want to guess numbers and see if youre right?, play the lotto. At least that way you can loose money doing so.
Anyway, looks like the usual go-up-to-get Monday and bring-back Tuesday next week.
 
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KnightRail said:
jis said:
Here we go again
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People looking for magic numbers and arguing about it
default_wink.png
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There must be some amazing prize unbeknownst to some of us for guessing correctly. Seriously though, deployment happens when it happens. Enough of the magic numbers crystal ball hypothetical scenario guessing. Want to guess numbers and see if youre right?, play the lotto. At least that way you can loose money doing so.
Anyway, looks like the usual go-up-to-get Monday and bring-back Tuesday next week.
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Right now I'm just hoping to get a diner when I take the LSL next month. There's obviously no tangible benefit in getting the numbers and timeline right, and while deployment does happen when it happens, some people (like me) are curious about what to expect, and make guesses accordingly.
 
The problem with trying to guess a "magic number" is the assumption that Amtrak actually has a magic number of their own.

Even if the diner was pulled due to lack of serviceable equipment a couple years ago (or however long ago it was), changing circumstances in the mean time may mean that sufficient equipment won't immediately result in the restoration fo dining car service.

Has there been a recent public statement from Amtrak indicating the dining cars are going to return?

Even hearing stuff from "friends who work at Amtrak" has limited credibility because decisions like these are often not made by a single person (even something as relatively simple as changing the Acela schedule on Saturday goes through a planning review, a financial review comparing revenue gain/loss to crew turn costs/savings and what have you), so even if someone "fairly high up" wants to do it, that's not guarantee enough that it will happen.
 
Trogdor said:
The problem with trying to guess a "magic number" is the assumption that Amtrak actually has a magic number of their own.

Even if the diner was pulled due to lack of serviceable equipment a couple years ago (or however long ago it was), changing circumstances in the mean time may mean that sufficient equipment won't immediately result in the restoration fo dining car service.

Has there been a recent public statement from Amtrak indicating the dining cars are going to return?

Even hearing stuff from "friends who work at Amtrak" has limited credibility because decisions like these are often not made by a single person (even something as relatively simple as changing the Acela schedule on Saturday goes through a planning review, a financial review comparing revenue gain/loss to crew turn costs/savings and what have you), so even if someone "fairly high up" wants to do it, that's not guarantee enough that it will happen.
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My guess is that the LSL's diner will get restored in line with the next bid rotation and/or menu change (since the latter probably involve approximate quantities). We're more-or-less to the point that a diner can be restored, in terms of car counts; the question now becomes the ability to do so in terms of staffing, etc. Also remember: Just because they swap in a dining car doesn't mean they'll be putting the menu back where it was just yet.
 
Anderson said:
My guess is that the LSL's diner will get restored in line with the next bid rotation and/or menu change (since the latter probably involve approximate quantities). We're more-or-less to the point that a diner can be restored, in terms of car counts; the question now becomes the ability to do so in terms of staffing, etc. Also remember: Just because they swap in a dining car doesn't mean they'll be putting the menu back where it was just yet.
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Even if they don't restore the full menu, there's quite a difference in ambience between the diner-lite and the V-II. One has curtains, silver trim, two rows of windows. The other is a tube with limited visibility, a trash can in plane sight, and a counter splitting the car.
 
cpotisch said:
Anderson said:
My guess is that the LSL's diner will get restored in line with the next bid rotation and/or menu change (since the latter probably involve approximate quantities). We're more-or-less to the point that a diner can be restored, in terms of car counts; the question now becomes the ability to do so in terms of staffing, etc. Also remember: Just because they swap in a dining car doesn't mean they'll be putting the menu back where it was just yet.
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Even if they don't restore the full menu, there's quite a difference in ambience between the diner-lite and the V-II. One has curtains, silver trim, two rows of windows. The other is a tube with limited visibility, a trash can in plane sight, and a counter splitting the car.
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Oh, I agree. Heck, I'd love to see a major order of VII diners put into service replacing cafes (and allowing those cafes to, in turn, be rolled into another dozen or two dozen cars to augment the Amfleet coach fleet) since at the cost of around two dozen non-rev seats in the cafe you'd get a full car of revenue seats in return.

One other thing to consider is that technically there may be some needed training on the new cars, which would also point to this playing out on a bid cycle.
 
Is it too late to make them cafeteria (not cafe) cars? How about a buffet car?
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Thirdrail7 said:
Is it too late to make them cafeteria (not cafe) cars? How about a buffet car?
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Done well, could be a winning plan.

PerRock said:
Thirdrail7 said:
Is it too late to make them cafeteria (not cafe) cars? How about a buffet car?
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what do you expect the difference to be?

peter
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Cafeteria = Piccadilly (server plates your selections as you move along serving line) and buffet = Golden Corral (you plate your own servings, such as from many salad bars), or similar, although I believe the terms are sometimes used interchangeably even in cases where they shouldn't be. Auto Train was once essentially a cafeteria setup, which seems more practical.
 
Think inexperienced people carrying plates overloaded with food on a silver service train rolling down the NEC at 110 mph, and then hitting a interlocking where 3 tracks are reduced to 2 such as at gunpowder or havre de grace, and you will understand why buffet and cafeteria style would not work.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum
 
Steve4031 said:
Think inexperienced people carrying plates overloaded with food on a silver service train rolling down the NEC at 110 mph, and then hitting a interlocking where 3 tracks are reduced to 2 such as at gunpowder or havre de grace, and you will understand why buffet and cafeteria style would not work.
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Back in 1987 the food was cafeteria style on a Sliver train and after you payed for your meals a Amtrak employee carry it to your table.
 
Steve4031 said:
Think inexperienced people carrying plates overloaded with food on a silver service train rolling down the NEC at 110 mph, and then hitting a interlocking where 3 tracks are reduced to 2 such as at gunpowder or havre de grace, and you will understand why buffet and cafeteria style would not work.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum
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So what's different now than when it worked previously?
 

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