Gateway, D.C., & Chicago Trump Infrastructure Priorities

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As we have seen, anything that is not part of a federal rule is open for modification. Even some legislated rules are open for reinterpretation. All beliefs in continuity of established traditions are misguided. Gateway officials are exactly as clueless as the rest and are currently just whistling in the wind.

I am sure Gateway will eventually get done. But we have been saying something like that since the ‘90s and that is not saying much, as we have seen so far. [emoji53]

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jis said:
As we have seen, anything that is not part of a federal rule is open for modification. Even some legislated rules are open for reinterpretation. All beliefs in continuity of established traditions are misguided. Gateway officials are exactly as clueless as the rest and are currently just whistling in the wind.

I am sure Gateway will eventually get done. But we have been saying something like that since the ‘90s and that is not saying much, as we have seen so far. [emoji53]

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What do you think will actually get done regarding Gateway in 2018 and 2019?

Do you think it is fair for NJ Transit to implement a Trans-Hudson Ticket Surcharge to fund the Hudson Tunnel Project, or, instead, should the NJ TTF contribute to the Hudson Tunnel Project?
 
I have no idea what will happen until we see what the federal Infrastructure Program proposal looks like.

NJ TTF does not have money to make a significant contribution to Gateway. Most of it is already spoken for to take care of current debt servicing for various capital programs funded by the TTF.

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anyone that thinks the trump budget will have increased funds for any amtrak project or anything really for the public good is d e l u s i o n a l
 
jis said:
I have no idea what will happen until we see what the federal Infrastructure Program proposal looks like.

NJ TTF does not have money to make a significant contribution to Gateway. Most of it is already spoken for to take care of current debt servicing for various capital programs funded by the TTF.

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But NJ increased the gas tax substantially. I was under the impression that some of this money would go to the Hudson Tunnel Project.

Also, NY Governor Andrew Cuomo's office is fighting back:

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/state-budget-director-robert-mujica-issues-letter-fta-deputy-administrator-williams-regarding

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-31/cuomo-seeks-to-salvage-agreement-on-financing-hudson-rail-tunnel
 
The gas tax change in NJ merely made the TTF solvent, i.e. able to meet its existing obligations, with little left over beyond the stuff NJT has already planned to spend from it for SOGR and equipment replacement like the MLV power cars and the add on ALP45-DPs etc.

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The gas tax in NJ remains far too low. I wanted at least a 35 cent increase. I think they could still do with a 35 cent increase. Gas is far too cheap in NJ- its still way cheaper than any surrounding state. I think thats what the issue is- the gas stations would really be hurt by the loss of out of state customers.
 
kellyhwilliams said:
anyone that thinks the trump budget will have increased funds for any amtrak project or anything really for the public good is d e l u s i o n a l
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Congress forms the federal budget and passes all legislation. The president can recommend a budget, make comments but he has nothing to do with it until it gets to his desk for signature. At that point all he can do is veto it or sign the legislation.
 
Green Maned Lion said:
The gas tax in NJ remains far too low. I wanted at least a 35 cent increase. I think they could still do with a 35 cent increase. Gas is far too cheap in NJ- its still way cheaper than any surrounding state. I think thats what the issue is- the gas stations would really be hurt by the loss of out of state customers.
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We live near the PA border.and I can safely say that the gas prices in that state mirror the prices of gasoline in my area. Drivers cannot come over to NJ to save anything and you pay $1.00 in toll to do so.
 
dlagrua said:
kellyhwilliams said:
anyone that thinks the trump budget will have increased funds for any amtrak project or anything really for the public good is d e l u s i o n a l
Click to expand...
Congress forms the federal budget and passes all legislation. The president can recommend a budget, make comments but he has nothing to do with it until it gets to his desk for signature. At that point all he can do is veto it or sign the legislation.
Click to expand...
Close, but no. The President forms the budget and submits it to Congress for approval. They mark it up and send it to his desk for signature. To say that he has "nothing to do with it" is incorrect.
 
In reality though, they ignore huge swaths of it. All money bills originate in the House. They are free to completely ignore the Presidential proposal and write their own alternative. Calling such a thin a “markup” is well, ....

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But the two documents may not bear nor is required to beat any semantic relationship to each other, no matter what it is called [emoji6]

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Ryan said:
dlagrua said:
kellyhwilliams said:
anyone that thinks the trump budget will have increased funds for any amtrak project or anything really for the public good is d e l u s i o n a l
Click to expand...
Congress forms the federal budget and passes all legislation. The president can recommend a budget, make comments but he has nothing to do with it until it gets to his desk for signature. At that point all he can do is veto it or sign the legislation.
Click to expand...
Close, but no. The President forms the budget and submits it to Congress for approval. They mark it up and send it to his desk for signature. To say that he has "nothing to do with it" is incorrect.
Click to expand...
Very well said!

But, remember, Amtrak has the strong support of Senators Booker and Schumer--and Congressman Rodney Frelinghuysen--who is chairman of the House Appropriations Committee. In his 2018 THUD Bill, $400 million was set aside for projects that serve both inner-city and public transportation trains--such as the Hudson Tunnel Project.

With the 2018 spending bill likely to get approved and signed by President Trump in late January, we may very well see some money go the Hudson Yards 3rd Section of the Concrete Casing.
 
jis said:
But the two documents may not bear nor is required to beat any semantic relationship to each other, no matter what it is called [emoji6]
Click to expand...
Actually, they do. All of the marks are to the President's budget.

What comes out the other end may look absolutely nothing like what was submitted (and in fact what the folks in Congress start negotiating from may differ greatly), but the budget process is President's Budget, marked up and passed by the legislature, then signed (hopefully) by the President.
 
So you do agree with the basic point I was making. Which was that the Congress can write up whatever they like completely ignoring everything that the President proposed. Essentially something like a substitution amendment to a motion. That’s all I was saying. More about the effective content than the syntactic niceties.

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Andrew said:
Ryan said:
dlagrua said:
kellyhwilliams said:
anyone that thinks the trump budget will have increased funds for any amtrak project or anything really for the public good is d e l u s i o n a l
Click to expand...
Congress forms the federal budget and passes all legislation. The president can recommend a budget, make comments but he has nothing to do with it until it gets to his desk for signature. At that point all he can do is veto it or sign the legislation.
Click to expand...
Close, but no. The President forms the budget and submits it to Congress for approval. They mark it up and send it to his desk for signature. To say that he has "nothing to do with it" is incorrect.
Click to expand...
Very well said!

But, remember, Amtrak has the strong support of Senators Booker and Schumer--and Congressman Rodney Frelinghuysen--who is chairman of the House Appropriations Committee. In his 2018 THUD Bill, $400 million was set aside for projects that serve both inner-city and public transportation trains--such as the Hudson Tunnel Project.

With the 2018 spending bill likely to get approved and signed by President Trump in late January, we may very well see some money go the Hudson Yards 3rd Section of the Concrete Casing.
Click to expand...
As a matter of fact, because Congress has chosen to basically ignore what the President proposed for the rail and transit part of the DOT budget and chose to substitute their own, that Amtrak will likely have a non zero National System budget and there is the $900 million for the tunnel. But without a broader agreement with the executive branch going forward there is no certainty about further federal funding. It is hard to execute a multi year project without such certainties in place regarding funding.

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dlagrua said:
Green Maned Lion said:
The gas tax in NJ remains far too low. I wanted at least a 35 cent increase. I think they could still do with a 35 cent increase. Gas is far too cheap in NJ- its still way cheaper than any surrounding state. I think thats what the issue is- the gas stations would really be hurt by the loss of out of state customers.
Click to expand...
We live near the PA border.and I can safely say that the gas prices in that state mirror the prices of gasoline in my area. Drivers cannot come over to NJ to save anything and you pay $1.00 in toll to do so.
Click to expand...
I, too, live near the border. I live in Jersey and my favorite breakfast spot is in Pennsylvania. I can lean out my front door and see the river and Pennsylvania, about a block away. I pay $8 to cross, and wish theyd raise the toll on northern bridges, honestly.

I actually usually fill in PA, because I am infuriated by gas station attendants kvetching about the location of the gas filler on my Metris.

However, down here, the price difference is usually about 50 cents a gallon on premium. I usually take 18 gallons, so, uh, yeah. Did the math.
 
Sounds to me as if the issue is not whether Gateway (and other rail infrastructure projects) should be funded and built, but rather HOW and WHERE that funding should happen.

And spending less money on something as important as rail doesn't always translate into "cutting corners".
 
Having the federal taxpayer cover the entire cost of funding the projects does not seem reasonable in my view.

The NY governor’s office compares this to a family mortgage. The country tried nothing down family mortgages last decade which was a major contributor to the housing crisis. Having skin in the game keeps people more attuned to what the costs actually are.

And most families don’t have governors, senators and congress people who will be lobbying to change the terms to be more favorable to the states for the life of the loans. And to have the feds pick up the inevitable cost overruns. Cost overruns which will mostly windup in the pockets of state politicians’ supporters anyway.

Are the projects needed? Yes. Does the federal taxpayer need to pick up the whole tab? No, IMHO.

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OK, let's start the discussion on this one. Back to the drawing board AGAIN on funding for the Hudson River Tunnel project.

On Friday, the Trump administration finally, firmly derailed a two-year-old plan to relieve Amtrak’s busiest, most profitable, and most vulnerable stretch of track, the corroded tunnel that connects New York City to New Jersey. In a letter sent late Friday, the Trump DOT used its strongest language yet to emphasize that it was not on board with an Obama-era agreement to split with the states the cost of a new rail tunnel under the Hudson River, the centerpiece of a slate of Amtrak repairs known as the Gateway Project.
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MODERATOR NOTE: Because there is another active thread on this topic, this "new" thread was merged with the previous topic.
 
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Congress is going to end up stepping up and earmarking this. The maladministration is doing its best to ruin everything, but this hurts too many Republican Congressmen.
 

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