MikefromCrete
Engineer
I don't think there is a person on this board who doesn't think that the Sunset (and the Cardinal) should be daily. This tri-weekly stuff reeks of the old Southern Pacific plan to get rid of passenger trains.
11-2 LAX Connection Cut?
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This!
Devil's Advocate
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Daily operation would of course be very welcome but as Yumacool mentioned the calling times are also important. If the Sunset is forever doomed to retain its current dead of night scheduling for major stations like LAX and SAS you can leave it at three a week for all I care. When I buy a flight ticket the available routing and scheduling is a major factor. In fact it's among the most important factors in my decision making. Same as it is with millions of other working age folks on tight schedules. Just because Amtrak is a train doesn't mean my personal schedule and the schedule of connecting services is no longer relevant. I don't need Amtrak to be especially fast but I do need it to be convenient. That's why I'd much rather hear about future success with better scheduling and service availability for major population centers rather than relatively minor improvements in overall speed along specially designated corridors.
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What I wrote assumed I'd be negotiating with Amtrak. Maybe that wasn't clear.
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west point
Engineer
How long was the earlier departure from LAX instituted for track maintenance ? Of course the train had a scheduled wait in ELP ?
WoodyinNYC
Conductor
What this connection in L.A. needs is relatively minor improvements on the Surfliner route, Santa Barbara-L.A. Even 20 minutes saved might be enuff to make the Starlight-Sunset connection "safe" again.
Next look for easily 20 minutes, and maybe an hour, to be saved from more relatively minor improvements San Luis Obispo-Santa Barbara. And finally, the San Jose-San Luis Obispo segment could yield two hours in time savings. Taken together, these and other relatively minor improvements all along the Coast Starlight route (Redding-Sacramento, anyone? Portland-Eugene?) could move the L.A. arrival time from 9 p.m. now to, say, 7 p.m. or even 6 p.m. Then you could have a "safe" connection to San Diego, arriving there before midnight.
I'm looking to see an on-going series of relatively minor improvements along this LD route, and almost all of the others, as the only practical way to upgrade the existing LD system.
I can't imagine Congress voting, say, a Billion to upgrade the Starlight's route end to end, much less the Empire Builder's. And if Congress did such a thing, frankly, I don't think the FRA, the states, or Amtrak could pull it off. Just trying to spend a Billion or two between St Louis and Chicago has been a fearsome mess. (And the Midwestern order for bi-level coaches looking like the biggest FUBAR since the Acela order).
So I'm very happy to take 15 minutes off the Starlight's timetable Seattle-Portland, thanks to upgrades done on the specially designated Cascades corridor. Next I'll look for more time savings from California's planned work on the Surfliners, and still more from corridors across the country.
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the_traveler
Engineer
Did you call the 1-800 number and then ask SPECIFICLY for Customer Relations or just talk to the agent who answered? :huh: The agent who first answers IS NOT Customer Relations!
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Yes, I asked for Customer Relations. I am aware that Customer Relations does not have a public phone number. I said it was the first call, not the first person to answer.
Of course it does, since it being tri-weekly is at least partly because Amtrak took over a tri-weekly Espee train. Unlike the other tri-weekly Espee trains (the Cascade, which became the Coast Starlight north of Oakland, the City of San Francisco, which became the San Francisco Zephyr) Amtrak never brought it back to daily. Note that both the Coast Starlight north of Oakland and the San Francisco Zephyr west of Denver were originally tri-weekly under Amtrak, continuing what had been SP's practice.
And yes I know the CoSF was tri-weekly from Ogden not Denver, where it split from City of Everywhere (CoLA). Amtrak elected initially not to run daily west of Denver, even though there had been daily service between Denver and Ogden via the City of Kansas City/City of Los Angeles (City of Everywhere) up until AmDay.
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the_traveler
Engineer
AFAIK, the SL was always tri-weekly under SP. I don't think it was ever daily, thus it could not be "brought back to daily" - it could only be made daily for the first time.
Southern Pacific began cutting back on services on the Sunset Limited from the late 1950s through the 1960s. By 1968 it had lost its diner, lounge, and sleeping cars. It had become a coach-only train with an automat car for food. Sleeper and dining service were returned, but it was cut back to tri-weekly operation in 1970 after being a daily service throughout its history. Amtrak began in May 1971 without any change in its tri-weekly status.
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UPDATE: The memory does go at a certain age, so I was wrong about the Daily Sunset Ltd., just remembered it AFTER it went to tri-weekly.
Thanks to those that posted the timetable and correct info about my First "Home Train"!
As a frequent rider of the Espee in the 50s and 60s, I got to experience the Train-Off/Run-em-Off period when the Class Is,led by Espee, were trying to get rid of Passenger Trains by any means they could.
Thanks to those that posted the timetable and correct info about my First "Home Train"!
As a frequent rider of the Espee in the 50s and 60s, I got to experience the Train-Off/Run-em-Off period when the Class Is,led by Espee, were trying to get rid of Passenger Trains by any means they could.
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It's only wikipedia and I might be able to check more reliable sources when I'm home from work, but:
"In October 1970 the Sunset's daily service between New Orleans and Los Angeles was reduced to tri-weekly, but with full dining and sleeping car service returning over the entire route. This was the state of the train when Amtrak took control in May 1971."
"In October 1970 the Sunset's daily service between New Orleans and Los Angeles was reduced to tri-weekly, but with full dining and sleeping car service returning over the entire route. This was the state of the train when Amtrak took control in May 1971."
ainamkartma
Service Attendant
- Joined
- May 26, 2015
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I am so very far from an expert, but this timetable from 1960 seems to suggest strongly that the Sunset, as it was known during that period, was a daily train.
Ainamkartma
No, it was actually daily until October 1970.
SP made a deal with the ICC to bring back sleeping cars and dining service in exchange for reducing frequency to tri-weekly. SP Technical and Historical Society's "Sunset Limited" has complete documentation of this.
SP had dropped dining car and sleeping cars east of El Paso about 1966 or 67. It lost its dining car and sleepers west of El Paso when the Golden State to Chicago was discontinued. The trains were combined to El Paso, so had the Golden State's sleepers and diner.
It is kind of funny because had the awful daily coach and automat version of the Sunset would have lasted a few more months, it is likely we'd have a daily Sunset today. Amtrak would have brought back the sleepers and dining service anyway. One of the first things they did was return dining car service to the Coast Daylight/Starlight, BTW. That was done before the end of 1971, IIRC.
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Amtrak yesterday rebooked me ALY/MTZ on #11, then the San Joaquin 712 at 10:40, which seems just fine. Never ridden the SJ.
Got $29 refund, which seems low to me given that I'm swapping a whole daytime in roomette for regular coach seat on SJ and then a bus. Plus losing 3 meals.
I tried calculating fare difference and rail fare decrease is indeed very small, but haven't figured out a way to factor in the change in roomette from ALY/LAX to ALY/MTZ. I had snagged a very low bucket for ALY/LAX roomette so maybe there really isn't much effect of freeing up roomette MTZ/LAX. If no further info I'll just ask customer relations how the $29 refund was calculated.
Got $29 refund, which seems low to me given that I'm swapping a whole daytime in roomette for regular coach seat on SJ and then a bus. Plus losing 3 meals.
I tried calculating fare difference and rail fare decrease is indeed very small, but haven't figured out a way to factor in the change in roomette from ALY/LAX to ALY/MTZ. I had snagged a very low bucket for ALY/LAX roomette so maybe there really isn't much effect of freeing up roomette MTZ/LAX. If no further info I'll just ask customer relations how the $29 refund was calculated.
Sounds like a good plan. Seems like the roomette refund should be based on like for like buckets, not current bucket, though. I'd check what the current through bucket roomette is between your origination (sorry, forgot and don't feel like going through the thread) and LA and the difference between that and MTZ. The difference is what your refund ought to be.
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My understanding is that the refund is based on the portion of the miles booked that the traveler will have the room, and the price paid. For example, if the traveler will be in the room for 60% of the original miles booked, then Amtrak will refund 40% of the accommodation charge.
From what Phil S said, I would be more concerned that Amtrak decided to return (in my example) 40% of the rail fare, and then booked the San Joaquin at current bucket. That might account for the surprisingly small $29 refund.
From what Phil S said, I would be more concerned that Amtrak decided to return (in my example) 40% of the rail fare, and then booked the San Joaquin at current bucket. That might account for the surprisingly small $29 refund.
