97 and 92 in service disruption near Avon Park, FL (4/8/17)

According to Track a Train, both 97(7) and 92(8) are on either side of Avon Park, FL (near Sebring) and neither is moving. Does anyone know the cause of the service disruption?

We are experiencing brush fires in Central Florida, but I have no idea if fires are in that area of Florida.

Thanks.

pennyk said:

According to Track a Train, both 97(7) and 92(8) are on either side of Avon Park, FL (near Sebring) and neither is moving. Does anyone know the cause of the service disruption?

We are experiencing brush fires in Central Florida, but I have no idea if fires are in that area of Florida.

Thanks.

Click to expand...

There's a an extremely long freight train having an extreme amount of problems in their path.

According to asm.transitdocs.com, both trains seem to be moving again, but both are now also around 10 hours late.

I would imagine 92's crew also ran out of time because of the delay. Where would their relief crew have reported on duty, and how would they have gotten to the train? Who pays for that transportation?

jb

.The crew would probably be called out of Jax and Amtrak would then transport them to location. If crew members lived in Sebring area, they may just report to train if easily accessible.

TrainOrders says, "Stopped behind a broken-down CSX. CSX cleared but the crew went dead on Hours of Service. Delayed recrew, inadequately staffed extra board, no rested personnel available."

I get that you can't have so many spare crews lying around on the extra board that you can cover any number of simultaneous recrews. But to me, "inadequate" sounds like there should have been more extra crews available. Can anyone comment on this?

jb

John Bobinyec said:

TrainOrders says, "Stopped behind a broken-down CSX. CSX cleared but the crew went dead on Hours of Service. Delayed recrew, inadequately staffed extra board, no rested personnel available."

I get that you can't have so many spare crews lying around on the extra board that you can cover any number of simultaneous recrews. But to me, "inadequate" sounds like there should have been more extra crews available. Can anyone comment on this?

jb

Click to expand...

That train had numerous, major problems that are not easily corrected in the field. As you indicated, your extra list may not be able to cover all possible situations. The only time there is never an "adequate" extra list is if a train sits.

John Bobinyec said:

TrainOrders says, "Stopped behind a broken-down CSX. CSX cleared but the crew went dead on Hours of Service. Delayed recrew, inadequately staffed extra board, no rested personnel available."

I get that you can't have so many spare crews lying around on the extra board that you can cover any number of simultaneous recrews. But to me, "inadequate" sounds like there should have been more extra crews available. Can anyone comment on this?

Click to expand...

One of my very top pet peeves. I was on a 24hour delayed Silver once, and after we finally started moving, the crew went dead. That occurred while we were in the middle of s swamp, and added another couple of hours to our already long delay.

Why didn't anyone at Amtrak know that crews can go "dead" when they reach their max hour of service? Clearly, not one single manager/exec did. One would have thought that even slightly competent management would have realized this, held us at the last/past station, and not have us time-out in the middle of swamp.

Why given Amtrak had 24 hours to find a relief crew, and get them to our train, why didn't they? Sorry, but if Amtrak sent out the word that they will give a $1M bonus to any qualified crew member(s) who could get to JAX in 24 hours, that they would have not one taker.

Cho Cho Charlie said:

John Bobinyec said:

TrainOrders says, "Stopped behind a broken-down CSX. CSX cleared but the crew went dead on Hours of Service. Delayed recrew, inadequately staffed extra board, no rested personnel available."

I get that you can't have so many spare crews lying around on the extra board that you can cover any number of simultaneous recrews. But to me, "inadequate" sounds like there should have been more extra crews available. Can anyone comment on this?

Click to expand...

One of my very top pet peeves. I was on a 24hour delayed Silver once, and after we finally started moving, the crew went dead. That occurred while we were in the middle of s swamp, and added another couple of hours to our already long delay.

Why didn't anyone at Amtrak know that crews can go "dead" when they reach their max hour of service? Clearly, not one single manager/exec did. One would have thought that even slightly competent management would have realized this, held us at the last/past station, and not have us time-out in the middle of swamp.

Why given Amtrak had 24 hours to find a relief crew, and get them to our train, why didn't they? Sorry, but if Amtrak sent out the word that they will give a $1M bonus to any qualified crew member(s) who could get to JAX in 24 hours, that they would have not one taker.

Click to expand...

Where did this happen? On Amtrak rails or CSX?

jb

I'm curious what the procedure/protocol is for a crew that is about to go 'dead'. Let's say either the crew or dispatch (or whoever handles crew hours - not sure who that is) realizes about an hour before they time out that they're not likely to make it to the designated crew swap point, does the crew contact dispatch or vice versa?

I guess what I'm looking to find out is whether there is ever a time when a replacement crew can get to a train before the crew times out?

lo2e said:

I'm curious what the procedure/protocol is for a crew that is about to go 'dead'. Let's say either the crew or dispatch (or whoever handles crew hours - not sure who that is) realizes about an hour before they time out that they're not likely to make it to the designated crew swap point, does the crew contact dispatch or vice versa?

I guess what I'm looking to find out is whether there is ever a time when a replacement crew can get to a train before the crew times out?

Click to expand...

This happens frequently in NEC, when they know in advance, they will have replacement crew board before other crew goes on the law. A little more difficult to plan with long distance trains, but does happen. Part of the problem is there are so many variables when operating over freight RR's. Many times it is a situation where you cross your fingers and hope grew makes it to crew change point and then freight RR, despite promising a "good run", sticks train in siding and train looses too much time, etc. Or you set off hot box detector, or whatever...

John Bobinyec said:

TrainOrders says, "Stopped behind a broken-down CSX. CSX cleared but the crew went dead on Hours of Service. Delayed recrew, inadequately staffed extra board, no rested personnel available."

I get that you can't have so many spare crews lying around on the extra board that you can cover any number of simultaneous recrews. But to me, "inadequate" sounds like there should have been more extra crews available. Can anyone comment on this?

jb

Click to expand...

Relief crews were in position for both trains Saturday night, but train 92 was not accessible by vehicle and expired before the freight train was fixed. Therefore, 92's relief was shuttled down on train 97 once the freight moved. After that, both 92 and 97's relief crews required further relief which was accomplished enroute with no additional delays.

To recap: 97's original crew was relieved, then the relief crew had to be relieved. 92's original crew was relieved, then that relief crew had to be relieved. 97's original crew went to a hotel enroute, so 98 needed a crew Sunday morning out of Miami. 98 departed MIA only 18 minutes late due to turning/servicing, not crew.

lo2e said:

I'm curious what the procedure/protocol is for a crew that is about to go 'dead'. Let's say either the crew or dispatch (or whoever handles crew hours - not sure who that is) realizes about an hour before they time out that they're not likely to make it to the designated crew swap point, does the crew contact dispatch or vice versa?

I guess what I'm looking to find out is whether there is ever a time when a replacement crew can get to a train before the crew times out?

Click to expand...

Everyone is well aware of a crew's expiration time. The majority of the time the relief crew will take over before the original crew expires. It's seamless for the passengers, typically happening at a scheduled station stop. When it happens out in the field, it's a short 5-10 minute delay. As said above, 92's relief crew was delayed getting to the train due due to the inaccessible area, not because a crew wasn't available. (See here.)

I'm sure it happens all the time. But nobody notices if the changeover is made in good order. It's the goof-ups that draw the attention.