Signal work north of NYP

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acelafan

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I haven't ridden the NEC rails north of New York Penn for quite some time. I noticed *lots* of signal work being done with many new overhead structures. Is this being done by Amtrak or LIRR? Both? Was curious if it's regular planned maintenance or part of PTC?
 
I haven't ridden the NEC rails north of New York Penn for quite some time. I noticed *lots* of signal work being done with many new overhead structures. Is this being done by Amtrak or LIRR? Both? Was curious if it's regular planned maintenance or part of PTC?
Since you're mentioning LIRR, I'm assuming you're talking about just east of New York, heading towards New Rochelle and New Haven. That signal work is part of the East Side Access project which includes remodeling Harold Interlocking.
 
Anything North (which is really east) on NYC is MNRR not LIRR. Anything East of NYC on Long Island is LIRR but has nothing to do with Amtrak.

That being said there is much talk about the East Side access and there is a bunch of work going on. It has not lead to that much of a delay for MNRR, so I don't think there will be much Amtrak impact.
 
Anything North (which is really east) on NYC is MNRR not LIRR. Anything East of NYC on Long Island is LIRR but has nothing to do with Amtrak.
Contrary to the impression you are giving, Amtrak and LIRR actually share tracks east of Penn Station through the East River Tunnels upto the east end of Harold interlocking, and all that is on Long Island, albeit in the borough of Queens.
 
The NEC thru NYP Is an "East-West" railroad, by timetable designation. Even if you head north on the Empire line, that is designated westbound by timetable direction,,,
 
Anything North (which is really east) on NYC is MNRR not LIRR. Anything East of NYC on Long Island is LIRR but has nothing to do with Amtrak.
Contrary to the impression you are giving, Amtrak and LIRR actually share tracks east of Penn Station through the East River Tunnels upto the east end of Harold interlocking, and all that is on Long Island, albeit in the borough of Queens.
Indeed, Jis. Additionally, AFS1970 is overlooking the Amtrak owned Hell Gate Line that runs between Harold (jct with LIRR) and CP216 (Jct with MNRR) which is designated east/west by timetable.

The NEC thru NYP Is an "East-West" railroad, by timetable designation. Even if you head north on the Empire line, that is designated westbound by timetable direction,,,
The NEC is east/west from Boston to Zoo interlocking just outside of Philadelphia. At Zoo, the Harrisburg Line continues east/west while the PW line to Washington is designated North/South.

The designation from "A" interlocking in New York to Hoffmans (almost 10 miles past Schenectady) is north/south. This includes the former Empire Connection and MNRR's Hudson Line. The designation becomes east/west after Hoffmans and if you're on the Post Road branch (jct just outside of Albany.)

Just for giggles, Amtrak's former Atlantic City line (which is leased to NJT) is designated north/south between Shore Interlocking and Atlantic City.
 
Anything North (which is really east) on NYC is MNRR not LIRR. Anything East of NYC on Long Island is LIRR but has nothing to do with Amtrak.
Contrary to the impression you are giving, Amtrak and LIRR actually share tracks east of Penn Station through the East River Tunnels upto the east end of Harold interlocking, and all that is on Long Island, albeit in the borough of Queens.
Indeed, Jis. Additionally, AFS1970 is overlooking the Amtrak owned Hell Gate Line that runs between Harold (jct with LIRR) and CP216 (Jct with MNRR) which is designated east/west by timetable.

The NEC thru NYP Is an "East-West" railroad, by timetable designation. Even if you head north on the Empire line, that is designated westbound by timetable direction,,,
The NEC is east/west from Boston to Zoo interlocking just outside of Philadelphia. At Zoo, the Harrisburg Line continues east/west while the PW line to Washington is designated North/South.

The designation from "A" interlocking in New York to Hoffmans (almost 10 miles past Schenectady) is north/south. This includes the former Empire Connection and MNRR's Hudson Line. The designation becomes east/west after Hoffmans and if you're on the Post Road branch (jct just outside of Albany.)

Just for giggles, Amtrak's former Atlantic City line (which is leased to NJT) is designated north/south between Shore Interlocking and Atlantic City.
Interesting...thanks for clearing that up. I had thought that everything on the former Penn Central was "East-West", and that going from New York to Albany (as if on to Chicago), was considered "westward"....guess I was wrong...
 
Guess I was thinking of the former SP, where all lines leading to Oakland or San Francisco were designated East-West, hence the Amtrak Coast Starlight from Seattle to Oakland is Train 11, then becomes Train 12 (in employee timetable), from Oakland to Los Angeles. Conversely, the Starlight is Train 13, (again in employee timetable only), from Los Angeles to Oakland, and Train 14 from Oakland to Seattle.

I am not sure if the Espee designated any of its lines as "North-South"...

Incidentally, Amtrak did use the numbers 12 and 13 for trains on the NEC....
 
Incidentally, Amtrak did use the numbers 12 and 13 for trains on the NEC....
Yes. Train 12/412 was the Fast Mail, a passenger train between WAS-BOS/SPG and train 13 was the Fast Mail between BOS-SPG/WAS. It only carried passengers between BOS-SPG. Once the cut it back to a SPG-WAS train, it didn't carry passengers at all.

Additionally, Mail 15 was the weekend version of 13 and Mail 10 was a MON-FRI WAS-SPG train that did not carry passengers. Mail 10 was added once they raised the speed of the regional trains. They were the cars cut from trains 148 and 178.
 
There's an interesting story about that Train 13...when Amtrak first started it, they did not want to carry passengers at all (including Boston to Springfield). But when the host railroad, Conrail, learned of this, they refused to let Amtrak run a "freight only" train over their territory, and insisted that it carry at least one rider coach. Amtrak could have rerouted the train over the NEC on its own lines, but instead relented and added a coach to comply with Conrail's demand....
 
Incidentally, Amtrak did use the numbers 12 and 13 for trains on the NEC....
Yes. Train 12/412 was the Fast Mail, a passenger train between WAS-BOS/SPG and train 13 was the Fast Mail between BOS-SPG/WAS. It only carried passengers between BOS-SPG. Once the cut it back to a SPG-WAS train, it didn't carry passengers at all.

Additionally, Mail 15 was the weekend version of 13 and Mail 10 was a MON-FRI WAS-SPG train that did not carry passengers. Mail 10 was added once they raised the speed of the regional trains. They were the cars cut from trains 148 and 178.
Interesting history on some of those Amtrak train numbers...Number 15 was at one time the Lone Star from Chicago to Houston, and Number 10 was originally the North Coast Hiawatha, and later used for the Arrowhead, or Northstar.
 
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Guess I was thinking of the former SP, where all lines leading to Oakland or San Francisco were designated East-West, hence the Amtrak Coast Starlight from Seattle to Oakland is Train 11, then becomes Train 12 (in employee timetable), from Oakland to Los Angeles. Conversely, the Starlight is Train 13, (again in employee timetable only), from Los Angeles to Oakland, and Train 14 from Oakland to Seattle.

I am not sure if the Espee designated any of its lines as "North-South"...

Incidentally, Amtrak did use the numbers 12 and 13 for trains on the NEC....
SP designated all lines east/west with MP 0 being the hinge on the Ferry Building loading ramp (3rd & Townsend for the Coast Line) regardless of compass direction. UP has re-designated a lot of lines as north/south, and also reset some MPs.
 
The NEC thru NYP Is an "East-West" railroad, by timetable designation. Even if you head north on the Empire line, that is designated westbound by timetable direction,,,
The Empire Corridor between NYP and ALB is an odd puppy. It is north-south timetable direction, but all Empire Service trains have odd numbers leaving NYP traveling northbound, and even numbers arriving into NYP traveling southbound. This is reasonable for the BUF bound trains. However, for Montreal bound trains (and those terminating at ALB), this is an interesting anomaly that I believe was introduced at some point to make the numbers consistent and less confusing. Historically AFAIR there were times when some ALB bound trains from New York (GCT) had even numbers and others odd numbers.

You do not see this anomaly in the NEC change of direction because westbound becomes southbound and northbound becomes eastbound at Philly.
 
Not uncommon in transportation routing and numbering. Just like I-95 goes East-West from the GW Bridge as the Cross Bronx before turning North east again.

Even numbers designate E-W routes odd numbers N-S for primary interstates, but certainly major stretches can be exceptions.
 
Yup. In airline flight numbering they have more or less abandoned the tradition and number flights whatever happens to be convenient for marketing purposes, specially in domestic service. Most international flights still seem to follow the pattern.
 
Not uncommon in transportation routing and numbering. Just like I-95 goes East-West from the GW Bridge as the Cross Bronx before turning North east again.

Even numbers designate E-W routes odd numbers N-S for primary interstates, but certainly major stretches can be exceptions.
I recall a cross country auto trip through New Mexico years ago (compass westbound) with a highway route sign showing I-40 West, US route something North, a State route South, and then County Road (detour) East!
 
Yup. In airline flight numbering they have more or less abandoned the tradition and number flights whatever happens to be convenient for marketing purposes, specially in domestic service. Most international flights still seem to follow the pattern.
In the regional market, a round trip from a hub to a small city has the same flight number both ways on some routes.
 
Back on topic, Harold is going to get busier if Metro North starts running trains from Penn to the New Haven Line via the Hellgate.
 
Harold is going to get busier simply because LIRR will be running more service through it than it does now. MNRR hourly service is just going to be icing on the cake.

The entire structure of interlockings and interlocking boundaries is being redone in that area. Thirdrail can probably correct me, but I understand that some of the interlocking plant upto Woodside is being brought under PSCC or one of its subsidiary CPs, to smooth the flow through Harold, where the LIRR flow towards Penn Station and Grand Central will split, with the Penn Station trains taking the current route and the GCT trains heading into tunnels under Sunnyside Yard heading towards Plaza interlocking before it enters the connecting tunnel to the lower level of the 63rd St East River Tunnel.
 
Back on topic, Harold is going to get busier if Metro North starts running trains from Penn to the New Haven Line via the Hellgate.
And what about Hudson Line trains into NYP over Amtrak's single track Empire connection?....yikes!
 
Back on topic, Harold is going to get busier if Metro North starts running trains from Penn to the New Haven Line via the Hellgate.
And what about Hudson Line trains into NYP over Amtrak's single track Empire connection?....yikes!
That, like the New Haven Line to Penn Station won't happen until the LIRR to GCT is completed, which as we speak is apparently slipping deadlines again. Also when it happens it is unlikely that it will be more than one train an hour, and possibly none during rush hours, due to congestion at A interlocking in Penn Station.

BTW, Amtrak's Empire Connection is mostly double track. It is single track only across the Spuyten Dutvil bridge and between CP Empire and NY Penn Station A interlocking through the single track tunnel used to enter Penn Station. The rest of it, which is most of it, is double track.

Also Empire Connection has nothing to do with the signal work around Harold Interlocking, and it won't add to traffic at Harold Interlocking. It might add traffic at F interlocking if those trains are turned through Sunnyside.
 
I believe the bridge has room for a second track if they were so inclined in the future, but the tunnel in/out of NYP is not likely to suddenly get wider. The present setup also limits the number of platforms accessible for the Empire Connection.
 
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