New early morning surfliner san-slo

CraigDK said:

brianpmcdonnell17 said:

It would be nice if Metrolink could expand their schedules. Based on pure route mileage Metrolink would be on the same level as Metra, but the much lower frequencies and less stations makes it seem far behind.

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Hopefully this doesn't drag this discussion to far afield. On the frequency and number of stations how do the two systems (Metra & Metrolink) compare?

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Metra has 488 miles, 11 lines, and 241 stations. Metrolink has 388 miles, 7 lines, and 55 stations. As for frequency, Metra operates about 360 round trips per weekday and I believe Metrolink is under 100.

awsome1 said:

The cascade's have talgo and run faster .so i am thinking it will run faster

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Maximum authorized speed is already utilized by Metrolink/Surfliner - they already run 89 mph through parts of Orange and San Diego County. Unless stops are eliminated or dispatching improved, I don't see much in the way of faster service.

Announcement on the Pacific Surfliner's web page:

http://www.pacificsurfliner.com/pacific-surfliner/new-service/

They finally made the schedule public and easy to see!

calwatch said:

On the other hand, I expect 761 to function essentially as a Metrolink express from South Orange County to Downtown LA for passholders. This may end up increasing Metrolink's Rail to Rail bill, or Amtrak may try to make it a premium service by barring Metrolink riders from using this train. There was talk at LOSSAN about barring Metrolink riders from the 5:10 PM departure because that is slammed with Metrolink monthly pass holders who end up taking seats from Amtrak customers that pay $30+ for the privilege.

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It wouldn't be a problem if there were some Metrolink departures on the busy OC Line between 4:50 and 5:45 pm. How many commuter railroads do that ? The two services should be combined for hourly base service, with additional trains during peak periods. They are already running a enough trains to do that.

hmy1 said:

Announcement on the Pacific Surfliner's web page:
http://www.pacificsurfliner.com/pacific-surfliner/new-service/

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We really owe it to California. The two more trains for this fiscal year, the 7th San Joaquin added in June, and now this Surfliner, should contribute nicely to Amtrak's ridership totals.

This boost comes for a year when ridership will likely be depressed due to low gas prices. Declining ridership is not what we want to report to Congress!

WoodyinNYC said:

This boost comes for a year when ridership will likely be depressed due to low gas prices. Declining ridership is not what we want to report to Congress!

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Also according to the Amtrak August performance report Aug was down 5M revenue passengers miles and the FY to date was down 80M+. Load factor was also down so not much change in consists.

What would be the obstacles to continuing this train north to the SF Caltrain terminal?

Schedule would be something like SAN 0400, LAX 0735, SLO 1300, SJC 1730, SF 1830. (Timing for SJC->SF is based on Caltrain baby bullet schedule.)

Southbound would be something like SF 0800, SJC 0900, SLO 1330, LAX 1930 SAN 2230

Could they do it with just one more trainset, overnighting the crews in San Francisco or the East Bay?

I know it would be expensive, don't have the equipment, the PTB wouldn't stand for it, never going to happen, you crazy for even thinking it, etc etc. but this would be a one-seat commuter ride between the two largest cities in California, something which just doesn't exist currently, and would put you in downtown SF by dinnertime. That would be amazing.

I'd rather leave SD at 7am to get to LA at 9am, wait an hour for the Coast Starlight leaving at 10:15am and get to San Jose at 9pm and either hop on Caltrain to points north or stay on the CS to the East Bay.

That's more or less the Coast Daylight plan. Big obstacle to that appears to be access to UP's track. The state's study calls for a lot of upgrade work to be done first. I think doing the upgrade work is a good thing, but it's not like the existing track couldn't handle a couple more trains a day -- it's not a heavily used corridor.

Bjartmarr said:

What would be the obstacles to continuing this train north to the SF Caltrain terminal?

I know it would be expensive, don't have the equipment ... [but] ... would be a one-seat commuter ride between the two largest cities in California, something which just doesn't exist currently ...

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Credit California with working on this, incrementally. Planning is underway for upgrades LAUS-SLO -- straightening curves, widening bridges, double-tracking, the usual stuff.

They've even begun studies for the northern section SLO-Salinas iirc.

But seeing how long it would take to get going by rebuilding the right of way, California is trying to get the two Talgo trainsets unloved by Wisconsin's Scott Walker regime. These tilting trains could run faster than the current equipment on this very curvy route.

If they can get the Union Pacific to play ball, something L.A.-S.F. could be running in FY 2010. Meanwhile, upgrades will proceed as funding allows.

A small increment here a small increment there get many and finally some real enroute time reductions !

It's the same UP track used by the CS, though, right? While I'd love a faster trip, I'd expect a slowish train would be better than none. Or do they think it would have low ridership at 11 hours LA-SF?

If full route north to SF would be hard immediately, I'd like to see more incremental increases to up north. One service that I'd love to see the Surfliner's go to is Paso Robles. It is California's wine country in Central Coast area. Napa is for tourists and out of state people, Paso Robles is more of a locals place to visit.

Extending the Surfliner to Paso Robles would be great, and would compliment the continually delayed plan to extend Capitol Corridor service to Salinas.

Would 761 go to Paso Robles or would 777 do that?

If 761 goes to Paso Robles, it can't get back to run 790. Maybe cut 790 to SBA and run 796 from SLO?

WoodyinNYC said:

If they can get the Union Pacific to play ball, something L.A.-S.F. could be running in FY 2010. Meanwhile, upgrades will proceed as funding allows.

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The hourly Coast Daylight schedule implemented in 2010 was such a success that the HSR construction had to be expedited to relieve congestion on the trains.

(sorry, couldn't resist)

maxbuskirk said:

Would 761 go to Paso Robles or would 777 do that?

If 761 goes to Paso Robles, it can't get back to run 790. Maybe cut 790 to SBA and run 796 from SLO?

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The plan is to have 761 be the Coast Daylight. One element of implementation is to move the origin of 761 down to San Diego. Many other things need to happen for the rest of the implementation and who knows if it will ever happen, but there are people working on it.

Here's one of the more authorative papers on the subject from April 2016 --> http://slocog.org/sites/default/files/Amtrak%20Coast%20Daylight%20Study%20Final.pdf

The new train and re-origination of 761 are four days away as I type this, however there isn't a new schedule available at https://www.amtrak.com/train-schedules-timetables. Odd?

The changes have been bookable for a while. My wild guess is three weeks. The first post in this thread was October 16'th - must have been right around then.

I know the new 761 was bookable back in September before the fall schedule came out. I recall because I found them while experimenting with different trip dates to determine which weekends there wouldn't be train service due to construction. They schedule construction in advance and have it entered into the system, but don't announce a service alert until closer in.

FYI last year they ran 761 from SAN on select days during Thanksgiving week to accommodate the increased loads.

This honestly reminds me of the late Acela that was added NYP-WAS: There probably won't be a huge mess of riders out of SAN, but once you get into the LA Metro area there's likely to be a decent amount of ridership to be had (particularly in respect to through-LAX traffic). Being able to add another evening trip also helps...the gap between 1940 and 2210 stuck out (alongside one or two other gaps) so it's nice to see that get closed up a bit.