Long distance car consists

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Chessie

Chessie

Service Attendant
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Aug 23, 2016
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I noticed that the City of New Orleans is the only route where the sleeping cars are at the end. Very interesting.

All others LD train consists go roughly by the order of engines, baggage, sleepers, diner, lounge, coaches, except the City of New Orleans.

Could anyone give me an idea as to why it is the only one?

image.png
 
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The California Zephyr has the sleepers right behind the transition sleep only in the winter.

Engines, baggage, sleepers, diner, lounge, coaches.

Otherwise, the sleepers, 2 in low season and 3 in high season, are at the end of the consist.

The Coast Starlight has the coaches on the end of the consist all the time.
 
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The consists in the image seem to be outdated. The CS consist (during peak times) have two engines (three if there is a deadheading F59PHI engine), baggage car, Transition Sleeper, three sleepers, Pacific Parlour Car (sometimes substituted by another Sightseer Lounge or omitted altogether), Dining Car, Business Class (before July 2015 this was a coachclass car, behind the Sightseer Lounge), Sightseer Lounge Car, and three coaches (Sometimes a private car is attached behind the last coachclass car). Not sure about other routes.
 
You're graph of the Lake Shore is incorrect for when they combine at ALB as well.
 
And, you left off the Crescent and Silver Service single level trains.

Crescent and Silver Meteor/Star:

2 Engines (P42 south of WAS)

Bag

Business Class coach (Crescent only)

Sleepers (2 or 3)

Diner (only on Meteor, not currently on Star)

Lounge

Coaches (3 or 4)
 
Plus the one sleeper on the City of New Orleans is at the front next to the transition sleeper and in front of the dining car -- not at the end of the train.
 
^^ This is true. The CoNO only carries one sleeper behind the TS, which for about the last year or so has been behind the baggage car. The CoNO also carries a cross country cafe in front of the SSL. The lower level galley for both of those cars on the CoNO goes unused for food prep during the whole trip (Terribly squandered floor space in my humble opinion).
 
Luckily we don't have to compare these to current consists as the diagram was put out by model train manufacturer Kato, who was promoting their phase three Amtrak equipment in both Japan and the United States.
 
On the Auto Train in the Sleeper area they typically have a Diner and Lounge (not two Diners). If a Lounge is unavailable they will sub a Diner. Same is true in the coaches. The coaches are on the front of the train going south, sleepers going north. They do not wye this train.
 
Ah, so the graph is inaccurate.

I guess my real question is, what are some of the considerations to the order of a consist?

Sleepers being closer to engine makes sense for a LD because I imagine they will go all the way to the destination while coaches may be more sectional. And I am sure switches, route splits all play into it. Would be interesting to see how the switch is done.
 
Longhai said:
Ah, so the graph is inaccurate.

I guess my real question is, what are some of the considerations to the order of a consist?

Sleepers being closer to engine makes sense for a LD because I imagine they will go all the way to the destination while coaches may be more sectional. And I am sure switches, route splits all play into it. Would be interesting to see how the switch is done.
Click to expand...
Very few, if any, Amtrak trains drop or add coaches along the way like in the pre-Amtrak days. It doesn't cost any significant additional amount to run an empty coach - I see it all the time on the Crescent. It's more common, like on the LS, to combine or split entire trains.
 
The 421/422 sleeper (and coach) is positioned at the rear of the Sunset Limited for the LA to SAS portion and many times on the rear of the SAS to CHI portion. On the SAS to CHI portion, I have been both at the rear (more often than not) and once on 421 we were forward of the diner (after the transistion sleeper i believe). In this case, being on the rear of both trains simplifies the switching operation in SAS.
 
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The TE drops/picks up the 321/322 coach in STL. The 21/22 consist seems to vary between summer and winter. TS SL DC SSL C C C most months, but summer it seems to be TS C C SSL DC C SL. The latter consist seems to make more sense with three days the 421/422 coach and sleeper switching between 1/2 to from LAX.
 
As the creator of the image. I made that quite a few years ago. The intention is not really for people to determine the make up of their train, but for modelers to have a rough guideline for laying out their trainsets. At the time of making it, these were the kind of the average train makeup' pretty much if you made it up for your model layout you'd be able to argue that your train is close to accurate.

It was born out of someone posting some screenshots of Trainz on their forums of what they were claiming was the Empire Builder, but was in fact a bunch of Horizons.

peter
 
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Longhai said:
I guess my real question is, what are some of the considerations to the order of a consist?
Click to expand...
For the California Zephyr demand is quite a bit lower for sleeper accommodations in the winter than the other 3 seasons of the year.

Consequently, the variable in the winter is how many coach cars they want/need in the consist and coach cars are at the end of the consist.

The variable the rest of the year is how many sleeper cars they need in the consist ans the sleepers are then at the end of the consist.

In either case the demand variable usually only amounts to 1 car, coach or sleeper, that the consist needs to be adjusted by.

The Coast Starlight is kind of a special case because each has a Pacific Parlour Car (PPC).

CS Coach passengers are not allowed access to the PPC car, but they are allowed access to the Dining Car.

So the PPC car has to be between the last sleeper car and the dining car so coach passenger don't have to transit the PPC to get to the Dining car.

CS consist: engines, baggage, sleepers, PPC, diner, ssl, coach cars.
 
I'd like to add the Auto Train consist does not have any pointing. The only positioning is the auto carriers obviously go on the rear.
 
The few times I have been on the Auto Train, I was never lucky enough to find an SSL in the consist. Also aren't at least two of the Sleepers in the Auto Train, the unique Deluxe Sleepers which have all bedrooms on the upper level?

Of late I have observed that the Silver Star is Bag-Sleeper-Sleeper-FoodService-Coach-Coach-Coach and sometimes a fourth Coach; and Silver Meteor is Bag-Sleeper-Sleeper-Sleeper-Diner-FoodService-Coach-Coach-Coach-Coach and sometime a fifth Coach
 
GaSteve said:
Longhai said:
Ah, so the graph is inaccurate.

I guess my real question is, what are some of the considerations to the order of a consist?

Sleepers being closer to engine makes sense for a LD because I imagine they will go all the way to the destination while coaches may be more sectional. And I am sure switches, route splits all play into it. Would be interesting to see how the switch is done.
Click to expand...
Very few, if any, Amtrak trains drop or add coaches along the way like in the pre-Amtrak days. It doesn't cost any significant additional amount to run an empty coach - I see it all the time on the Crescent. It's more common, like on the LS, to combine or split entire trains.
Click to expand...
KmH said:
Longhai said:
I guess my real question is, what are some of the considerations to the order of a consist?
Click to expand...
For the California Zephyr demand is quite a bit lower for sleeper accommodations in the winter than the other 3 seasons of the year.

Consequently, the variable in the winter is how many coach cars they want/need in the consist and coach cars are at the end of the consist.

The variable the rest of the year is how many sleeper cars they need in the consist ans the sleepers are then at the end of the consist.

In either case the demand variable usually only amounts to 1 car, coach or sleeper, that the consist needs to be adjusted by.

The Coast Starlight is kind of a special case because each has a Pacific Parlour Car (PPC).

CS Coach passengers are not allowed access to the PPC car, but they are allowed access to the Dining Car.

So the PPC car has to be between the last sleeper car and the dining car so coach passenger don't have to transit the PPC to get to the Dining car.

CS consist: engines, baggage, sleepers, PPC, diner, ssl, coach cars.
Click to expand...
Thank you. The most variable demand definitely makes sense.
 
Late July last year, sleepers on the CZ were in the rear, at least my ride was. I know this because my room was the last room in the row. I "slept" in the H room. That was bumpy as heck. And 11 hours late... not a good trip.
 
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