Do Border Patrol agents still board Amtrak trains in NY and elsewhere?

Sorry, I am afraid you have to provide more context if you expect dumb a**es like me me to understand your point. You are clearly more intelligent than I am and you are sounding like Yoda.

So come on.... please spill it and spell it out. Won't you?

Frisky: This would be OK if the "Security Theater" we now have from HLS at the Cost of Multiple Billions of Dollars was really making us Safe!

Benjamin Franklin still has the best take on this, you can look it up!

Bob Dylan said:

Frisky: This would be OK if the "Security Theater" we now have from HLS at the Cost of Multiple Billions of Dollars was really making us Safe!

Benjamin Franklin still has the best take on this, you can look it up!

Click to expand...

I have several Swiss friends who argue that Switzerland no longer needs a military. They say there is no point in spending billions of Swiss francs per year to maintain a military that does absolutely nothing to improve the security of Switzerland as a nation.

I'm just bringing that up to show that even the Swiss can complain about stuff.

Beware, the 100 mile limit just went bye bye ...

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/21/us/politics/dhs-immigration-trump.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=1

The policy also calls for an expansion of expedited removals, allowing Border Patrol and Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents to deport more people immediately. Under the Obama administration, expedited removal was used only within 100 miles of the border for people who had been in the country no more than 14 days. Now it will include those who have been in the country for up to two years, and located anywhere in the nation.

Click to expand...

It might just be prudent to carry your Enhanced Drivers License, Passport Card or the GOES Trusted Traveler Card if you are a citizen and additionally your Green Card if you are a a non-citizen legal resident.

If you are a non-resident alien, best to have your I-94 or I-94W handy together with your Passport.

It is also true that in the past implicit profiling has taken place, so take that into account before deciding what to carry or not.

Reasonable precautions may save you a lot of time and prevent the total ruin of your vacation or business trip.

jis said:

It might just be prudent to carry your Enhanced Drivers License, Passport Card or the GOES Trusted Traveler Card if you are a citizen and additionally your Green Card if you are a a non-citizen legal resident.

Click to expand...

Am I missing something here? I don't have any of those things, and have no idea why an American citizen would want to carry them.

We're just talking about enforcing existing laws against persons who are in this country illegally, which certain (previous) elected officials notoriously failed to do.

A Voice said:

jis said:

It might just be prudent to carry your Enhanced Drivers License, Passport Card or the GOES Trusted Traveler Card if you are a citizen and additionally your Green Card if you are a a non-citizen legal resident.

Click to expand...

Am I missing something here? I don't have any of those things, and have no idea why an American citizen would want to carry them.

We're just talking about enforcing existing laws against persons who are in this country illegally, which certain (previous) elected officials notoriously failed to do.

Click to expand...

It's inevitable that some citizens and legal residents will have their IDs checked. And it's probable that some citizens and legal residents will be detained until their identity and status is determined. So, no, it doesn't just undocumented persons.

I'd imagine that Jis is suggesting measures that would help to avoid such problems.

I have been an American citizen for over 25 years now, and have always carried at least one, and it has come in handy once or twice.

Certain pigmentation of the skin makes certain groups of people more prone to getting stuck in a dragnet than some others. If you don't feel there is a problem for you I am all for you not carrying any such documentation. But don't presume that your situation applies to everyone else.

Eric S said:

It's inevitable that some citizens and legal residents will have their IDs checked. And it's probable that some citizens and legal residents will be detained until their identity and status is determined. So, no, it doesn't just undocumented persons.

I'd imagine that Jis is suggesting measures that would help to avoid such problems.

Click to expand...

Exactly!. It still is a free country and everyone has the freedom to carry any documentation or not of course.

All that I said is it might be prudent, having had some personal experiences on the LSL in the past. Not compulsory at all.

jis said:

Beware, the 100 mile limit just went bye bye ...

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/21/us/politics/dhs-immigration-trump.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=1

The policy also calls for an expansion of expedited removals, allowing Border Patrol and Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents to deport more people immediately. Under the Obama administration, expedited removal was used only within 100 miles of the border for people who had been in the country no more than 14 days. Now it will include those who have been in the country for up to two years, and located anywhere in the nation.

Click to expand...

It might just be prudent to carry your Enhanced Drivers License, Passport Card or the GOES Trusted Traveler Card if you are a citizen and additionally your Green Card if you are a a non-citizen legal resident.

If you are a non-resident alien, best to have your I-94 or I-94W handy together with your Passport.

It is also true that in the past implicit profiling has taken place, so take that into account before deciding what to carry or not.

Reasonable precautions may save you a lot of time and prevent the total ruin of your vacation or business trip.

Click to expand...

Adult green card holders are actually required by law to carry their green cards at all times. I don't know exactly what that means, like if someone is at the beach or maybe swimming. I heard that enforcement is pretty much nonexistent.

https://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/SLB/HTML/SLB/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-29/0-0-0-8289.html

e) Every alien, eighteen years of age and over, shall at all times carry with him and have in his personal possession any certificate of alien registration or alien registration receipt card issued to him pursuant to subsection (d). Any alien who fails to comply with the provisions of this subsection shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and shall upon conviction for each offense be fined not to exceed $100 or be imprisoned not more than thirty days, or both.

This was in the news when Arizona passed a law that made it a state offense for a green card holder to not carry one at all times. I suppose under the federal law, local law enforcement could arrest, but it would be up to the feds to decide to prosecute. The law (since mostly rescinded by a federal court) made it a state crime that could be prosecuted by the state, and it set a higher level of penalties of up to six months in jail.

Frankly - I understand the whole idea that a US citizen is never required to carry ID for simply being on the street, but I've heard of many getting harassed when they couldn't prove it. It's one thing to insist on one's rights, but another to see what happens in the real world.

Yeah, I used to carry my Green Card in my wallet over the 5.5 year period when I had a Green Card, and knew that it was a legal requirement even back then - circa late1980's and early '90s. I naturalized in 1991, and am currently on my third US Passport.

But when I was a student (F1) or H1, I did not carry my I-94 in my pocket. That has become necessary of late I am told. Naturally, I have no personal experience of being a non-citizen for over 25 years now.

jis said:

Beware, the 100 mile limit just went bye bye ...

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/21/us/politics/dhs-immigration-trump.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=1

The policy also calls for an expansion of expedited removals, allowing Border Patrol and Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents to deport more people immediately. Under the Obama administration, expedited removal was used only within 100 miles of the border for people who had been in the country no more than 14 days. Now it will include those who have been in the country for up to two years, and located anywhere in the nation.

Click to expand...

It might just be prudent to carry your Enhanced Drivers License, Passport Card or the GOES Trusted Traveler Card if you are a citizen and additionally your Green Card if you are a a non-citizen legal resident.

If you are a non-resident alien, best to have your I-94 or I-94W handy together with your Passport.

It is also true that in the past implicit profiling has taken place, so take that into account before deciding what to carry or not.

Reasonable precautions may save you a lot of time and prevent the total ruin of your vacation or business trip.

Click to expand...

That's not the same activity for the 100-mile zone. The new directives allow CBP & ICE to get you out of the country faster if you are found anywhere in the country, whereas before the faster-deportation was only done if you were caught within the 100-mile zone. CBP is still has it's stop-searches restricted to the 100-mile zone; so it's more of a thing for ICE.

In fact CBP & ICE could always expedite deportation from anywhere in the US, they just were told to prioritize people in the zone.

peter

Thanks for the clarification. I suspect the more vigorous enforcement may have an effect anywhere in the country, and could previously too, if there were such. We'll just have to see how this develops. meanwhile just do whatever makes you feel the most comfortable and safe.

Personally I will be ignoring advice that says it is OK to travel around with no documentation handy, since I know from experience that is a bad idea.

It should be safe to travel with no papers, because it is *constitutionally protected*, but for decades it hasn't been safe to do so. My backup in case my papers get stolen or go missing is memorizing the phone number of a trustworthy and well-resourced family member, or of my lawyer.

I usually take the LSL once a year to connect in Chicago and Empire Service a few times a year to Syracuse (or beyond), it has been at least a few years since I've seen them on the train.

Obama actually discontinued that practice a few years back. That is now in the process of being reversed in principle. We don't know yet how the details of that change in policy will work out viz-a-viz Amtrak. At present in some states schools appear to be the primary target. AFAIK, Amtrak trains have not been targeted yet.

My last experience was on the Empire Builder couple, or three years back in Havre MT. In that event I was not accosted, but several others were. Just verified. It was 2013, so four years back.

Thankfully we Brits can still buy a train ticket without ID, and travel around without the need for any ID. Probably we will need a passport to visit Scotland soon though, post brexit !

Land of the free, or a police state ?

Ed.

If the CBP-BP crew actually go back to securing borders and don't go on fishing expeditions looking for drug seizures and civil asset forfeiture targets,we might not see them again. ICE agents (formerly INS) might pop up more often, but they operate under different legal guidelines.

"Papers please!"

Chilling words heard in all Dictatorships!

I always carry my Passport when traveling, even in tbe US and like jis, it has come in handy more than once!( I am a 73 year old Native born White guy with a Texas,accent!)

I've seen alot of people that aren't white hassled by LE types in this country, especislly in rural areas!(Trump Country!)

Because I am in NY, and it offers optional enhanced drivers license acceptable for land/sea border crossing, (funny that they actually have this, our regular DL is not up to fed standards, and if we don't upgrade it, the regular NY DL will not be acceptable at the airport in another few years) I really don't even think about it because I always have it in my wallet.. It is available only to a US citizen and NY resident and replaces your regular DL. Very convenient for quick beer runs into Canada when at a hockey meeting or symposium.

Bob Dylan said:

"Papers please!"

Chilling words heard in all Dictatorships!

Click to expand...

Actually the first time I was asked for my papers outside of an official customs and immigration or an international flight airline boarding gate setting was at the Porte de Clingancourt Metro station in Paris. France has not been a dictatorship in my entire lifetime as far as I know.

I get your point jis, but the French have been known to be as big a jerks as others when it comes to LE practices and abuse of power!(Especially to Americans!)

Birth certificate or social security card is required for starting a new job for US citizens, along with another form of ID like a drivers license. I regard that as asking for my "papers".

Even had to do that when my employer was acquired last year and every time at a temp job I did for a week each year for several years, even though the prior certifications should have been on file.

Not an effective system, based on the results.

That is not entirely accurate. A US Passport is proof of both identity and residence. The SS card is more important for non citizens because when banking id regs tightened, you could have a bank account (ss # reqd) but not be legally permitted to work. That is now printed (not valid for employment) on SS cards for people in that category. That is a non issue for a citizen. Everyone employed still has to execute a w-4 with aSS # for tax purposes anyway.

Reference for the above is the instruction set for the Form I-9

Sometimes employers take the easy way out, and require things they don't need to , or aren't legally allowed to. The feds specify which forms of id are acceptable, an employer can't legally decline to accept a particular category of ID. Chances are they didn't need you to keep filling out new forms, but some companies write and follow policy and procedure manuals in a defensive mode. (if we ask everyone who walks in the door to do this, we can't screw up and assume it is already done)

Carolina Special said:

Birth certificate or social security card is required for starting a new job for US citizens, along with another form of ID like a drivers license. I regard that as asking for my "papers".

Even had to do that when my employer was acquired last year and every time at a temp job I did for a week each year for several years, even though the prior certifications should have been on file.

Not an effective system, based on the results.

Click to expand...

Where'd you hear that? What does a naturalized US citizen do?

The requirement is spelled out in the I-9 instructions. A birth certificate is only one possibility. I've personally done it with a SSN card and driver license, a US passport alone, and a US passport card alone. There are multiple options, and an employer can't insist on any particular form of proof. This was from an older version, but it's still basically the same as the current instructions:



Here's the latest instructions. It's not as nicely laid out as the older one, but it does still specify that an employer can't decide that they'll accept one form but not another that's acceptable.

https://www.uscis.gov/system/files_force/files/form/i-9instr.pdf

Anti-Discrimination Notice. It is illegal to discriminate against work-authorized individuals in hiring, firing, recruitment or referral for a fee, or in the employment eligibility verification (Form I-9 and E-Verify) process based on that individual's citizenship status, immigration status or national origin. Employers CANNOT specify which document(s) the employee may present to establish employment authorization and identity. The employer must allow the employee to choose the documents to be presented from the Lists of Acceptable Documents, found on the last page of Form I-9. The refusal to hire or continue to employ an individual because the documentation presented has a future expiration date may also constitute illegal discrimination.

The list doesn't specifically mention the Certificate of Citizenship or naturalization certificate, but they have this that says it's a document that conforms to list C, #8 as a "Employment authorization document issued by the Department of Homeland Security".

https://www.uscis.gov/i-9-central/acceptable-documents/list-documents/form-i-9-acceptable-documents?topic_id=1&t=c

PVD said:

Sometimes employers take the easy way out, and require things they don't need to , or aren't legally allowed to. The feds specify which forms of id are acceptable, an employer can't legally decline to accept a particular category of ID. Chances are they didn't need you to keep filling out new forms, but some companies write and follow policy and procedure manuals in a defensive mode. (if we ask everyone who walks in the door to do this, we can't screw up and assume it is already done)

Click to expand...

I can understand making up rules that are against the law. Heck - I've been told to sign a noncompete agreement, even though it's not enforceable in California.

I've never had an issue with different forms of ID. One time was for a contract job where the legal employer was across the country. They actually had a local office, but I never went there and I don't think they had any HR there. They wanted me to fill out an I-9 and have a notary serve as a representative for verifying the document. Seems strange though, since it looks like California notaries aren't allowed to do that any more unless they're a licensed and bonded "immigration consultant".

https://www.uscis.gov/i-9-central/i-9-central-questions-answers/faq/i-hire-my-employees-remotely-how-do-i-complete-form-i-9

https://www.littler.com/publication-press/publication/californias-special-restrictions-who-may-complete-form-i-9

Can I use a Certificate of Naturalization for an I 9?










USCIS. Yes. The Certificate of Naturalization (Form N-550 or N-570) is an acceptable List C, #8 employment authorization document issued by the Department of Homeland Security. These documents were previously issued by the Immigration and Naturalization Service.










I hire my employees remotely. How do I complete Form I-9?Expand
You may designate an authorized representative to fill out Forms I-9 on behalf of your company, including personnel officers, foremen, agents or notary public. The Department of Homeland Security does not require the authorized representative to have specific agreements or other documentation for Form I-9 purposes. If an authorized representative fills out Form I-9 on your behalf, you are still liable for any violations in connection with the form or the verification process.

When completing Form I-9, you or authorized representative must physically examine each document presented to determine if it reasonably appears to be genuine and relates to the employee presenting it. Reviewing or examining documents via webcam is not permissible.

If the authorized representative refuses to complete Form I-9 (including providing a signature) another authorized representative may be selected. DHS does not require the authorized representative to have specific agreements or other documentation for Form I-9 purposes. If you hire a notary public, the notary public is acting as an authorized representative of you, not as a notary. The notary public must perform the same required actions as an authorized representative. When acting as an authorized representative, the notary public should not provide a notary seal on Form I-9.