Do Border Patrol agents still board Amtrak trains in NY and elsewhere?

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ToniCounter said:
wait... maritime laws? :) this thread has gone so far astray from Amtrak :D

next we'll shift into discussion about UN Outer Space Treaty (which the

United States ratified 50 years ago, just before the creation of Amtrak) :)
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So with only 170 posts now you think you should be moderator too? :p
 
On my trip to Canada a couple of years ago, there was the usual customs stop in Niagara Falls. Since I was getting off there I really only dealt with the Canadian agents. They were very nice and pleasant. There were only a few of us, so they were certainly not overworked at that time.

On the way back we had to get off the train, sit in a very small room with not enough chairs, while the US agents searched the train. I have no idea if it was a routine search or something special but they were assisted by a K9 unit from the local Sheriff's office. I can tell that by the agency and the breed of the dog they were not looking for contraband fruits and vegetables. They did come and get a family that had been in certain seats and have them identify their luggage based on the K( search. That family did not get back on the train with us. I was more upset with the passengers than the CBP agents for the delay.

However that was just one more hiccup between Via Rail & Amtrak that almost made me swear off of train travel. Thankfully cooler heads prevailed.
 
jis said:
So with only 170 posts now you think you should be moderator too? :p
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Absolutely NOT. I'll make the worst moderator in the history of the internet.

My censorship will be so harsh, even Stalin or Hitler would have been scared.
 
Border crossing searches are done by what used to be Customs and sometimes you see the Dept of Agriculture beagles. (pretty common at JFK Airport). What comes up from time to time, and is what really created this thread, is the Border Patrol folks coming on to trains in places not near what anyone other than a Justice Dept attorney would ever call a border, going on fishing expeditions. Honestly, controlling the borders makes sense, but I'm not so sure about walking through a train at Syracuse asking people what country they were from served any legit purpose. When officers of various agencies act on real intel and take appropriate measures, I think most people are supportive, when they do the smoke and mirrors make people feel safe show, or lets look like we have a purpose to exist, or play the civil forfeiture game, there are plenty of people who strongly oppose that.
 
That because Border Patrol does not use the map from the ACLU. Inland river, inland ports, free trade zone, are all used to define the 100 mile rule. Very little of the country is off limits to them. That is there interpretation of a judge restrictions to 100 miles.
 
ToniCounter said:
jis said:
Don't know about selling booze to 18 years olds, but gambling Casinos apparently operate on boats in the Great Lakes already, under Indiana Law as it turns out :)

http://traveltips.usatoday.com/riverboat-casinos-lake-michigan-103595.html

Actually I have no idea what maritime laws apply in the Great Lakes since the entire lot is a special case, and the 12 mile thing does not apply, or well, perhaps applies in some strange way buried in some paragraph of some regulation.
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wait... maritime laws? :) this thread has gone so far astray from Amtrak :D

next we'll shift into discussion about UN Outer Space Treaty (which the

United States ratified 50 years ago, just before the creation of Amtrak) :)
Click to expand...

Oooooo. You stepped into it now, ToniCounter! (scroll down)

zTL_Fg.jpg


I DON'T apologize for this! Someone had to do it!
 
Thirdrail7 said:

Oooooo. You stepped into it now, ToniCounter! (scroll down)

zTL_Fg.jpg


I DON'T apologize for this! Someone had to do it!
Click to expand...

I see a picture placeholder, but no picture? :(

Edit: I see it now... had to change the link of the picture from https://

to http:// in order for it to come up.

What kind of lame 22nd century starship are you operating there?

Search my bags? Shouldn't your transporter's biofilter already

gone through every molecule of my body and belongings? :(

The next time you're near sector 001, have your chief engineer

contact Starfleet Command and request a replacement updated

transporter.
 
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Just-Thinking-51 said:
That because Border Patrol does not use the map from the ACLU. Inland river, inland ports, free trade zone, are all used to define the 100 mile rule. Very little of the country is off limits to them. That is there interpretation of a judge restrictions to 100 miles.
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Can you provide a citation in support of that? I scouted around various pronouncements fromDHS and could not find anything suggesting that is their interpretation. Not saying that it isn't, but would like to see some supporting policy documentation if they exist.
 
jis said:
Just-Thinking-51 said:
That because Border Patrol does not use the map from the ACLU. Inland river, inland ports, free trade zone, are all used to define the 100 mile rule. Very little of the country is off limits to them. That is there interpretation of a judge restrictions to 100 miles.
Click to expand...
Can you provide a citation in support of that? I scouted around various pronouncements fromDHS and could not find anything suggesting that is their interpretation. Not saying that it isn't, but would like to see some supporting policy documentation if they exist.
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If you go through a DHS checkpoint on a California highway about 40 miles from the Mexican border, the nice Border Patrol agent will provide a 3" x 5" pamphlet describing their authority granted by the courts. I'll try to dig up my copy from the basement.... hopefully.
 
ToniCounter said:
jis said:
Just-Thinking-51 said:
That because Border Patrol does not use the map from the ACLU. Inland river, inland ports, free trade zone, are all used to define the 100 mile rule. Very little of the country is off limits to them. That is there interpretation of a judge restrictions to 100 miles.
Click to expand...
Can you provide a citation in support of that? I scouted around various pronouncements fromDHS and could not find anything suggesting that is their interpretation. Not saying that it isn't, but would like to see some supporting policy documentation if they exist.
Click to expand...
If you go through a DHS checkpoint on a California highway about 40 miles from the Mexican border, the nice Border Patrol agent will provide a 3" x 5" pamphlet describing their authority granted by the courts. I'll try to dig up my copy from the basement.... hopefully.
Click to expand...
Thank you but that is not what I am looking for. I am looking for their policy statement as it applies to extended border areas surrounding inland ports. I know their policy regarding immediate vicinity of airports, like say Denver International Airport. But I am wondering whether they have a written policy regarding applying the 100 mile rule in places like DIA, that applies from actual borders. They already have the authority 40 miles from an actual border though with somewhat more stringent application of the 4th amendments. I have got reams of documentation and court cases on that.
 
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jis said:
Just-Thinking-51 said:
That because Border Patrol does not use the map from the ACLU. Inland river, inland ports, free trade zone, are all used to define the 100 mile rule. Very little of the country is off limits to them. That is there interpretation of a judge restrictions to 100 miles.
Click to expand...
Can you provide a citation in support of that? I scouted around various pronouncements fromDHS and could not find anything suggesting that is their interpretation. Not saying that it isn't, but would like to see some supporting policy documentation if they exist.
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No I can not. Point of fact, I have not seen them away from the Mexican line in years. However I also have not deliver in or around inland ports, and free trade zones in years. It was pretty common years ago to see them everywhere.

I stIll see there green and white vehicles ever once in a while, but not like before. I do recall the statement I made was base on something I read, also there was court case in New York about the area that the Border Patrol were allowed to "fish".
 
Thanks. I am still continuing my hunt for policy documents from DHS if there is one. The to and fro that has been going on this matter between the DHS and the courts is fascinating.AFAICT Chertoff started a lot of this nonsense under the cover of 9/11. A lot of the original excesses were curbed by various court decisions. But for a random citizen just trying to travel in peace it still remains a bit of a hard to predict minefield as far as I can tell. So I just carry my GOES Global Entry Card which has citizenship information on it and is issued by the DHS (well actually one of its subsidiaries).
 
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Good call. Same here, even with the warning on the card sleeve "not to carry it" (why have it?) LOL
 
Many people still believe that an American citizen, not under suspicion of any illegal activity, not performing any act that requires registration/permission like driving, and not having left and seeks to re-enter the country should not have to prove it.
 
PVD said:
Many people still believe that an American citizen, not under suspicion of any illegal activity, not performing any act that requires registration/permission like driving, and not having left and seeks to re-enter the country should not have to prove it.
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The rules are very clear that in an encounter under the extended border engagement rules there must be probable cause. However, in an actual encounter in the field it is anyone's guess what might happen. Best to be armed with documentation, and argue probable cause or not later.

I would rather be safe and be able to continue with my trip, than sorry with a ruined trip. When there is significant evidence of questionable supervision and ideological witch hunting, one has to just work around it. It is not anywhere like as bad as in Russia, not even by a very very long shot, but it is the same idea and same approach to keep out of trouble.

Of course, once the wall is built all these troubles will go away since the whole problem of illegal immigrants would simply go away, Right! :p
 
jis said:
FriskyFL said:
If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about.
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I guess you have not been in a situation where you had plenty to worry about even when you had done nothing wrong. :p Some of us have been there and done that ;)
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Amen! As the old saying goes, "Ignorance is Bliss!"
 
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jis said:
FriskyFL said:
If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about.
Click to expand...
I guess you have not been in a situation where you had plenty to worry about even when you had done nothing wrong. :p Some of us have been there and done that ;)
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"Omelettes are not made without breaking eggs." -- Robespierre, mastermind of the French Reign of Terror
 
FriskyFL said:
jis said:
FriskyFL said:
If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about.
Click to expand...
I guess you have not been in a situation where you had plenty to worry about even when you had done nothing wrong. :p Some of us have been there and done that ;)
Click to expand...
"Omelettes are not made without breaking eggs." -- Robespierre, mastermind of the French Reign of Terror
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And your point is exactly what?
 
jis said:
FriskyFL said:
jis said:
FriskyFL said:
If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about.
Click to expand...
I guess you have not been in a situation where you had plenty to worry about even when you had done nothing wrong. :p Some of us have been there and done that ;)
Click to expand...
"Omelettes are not made without breaking eggs." -- Robespierre, mastermind of the French Reign of Terror
Click to expand...
And your point is exactly what?
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Plenty of "real Americans" are more than willing to trade my freedom for their safety.
 

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