Empire Builder CHI-PDX a Drug Smuggling Route?

Advertise with us
Shop deals on ebay
shop deals on amazon
Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Status
Not open for further replies.
I'm confused... so people don't mind drug dealers using Amtrak trains to transport drugs?
 
Ryan said:
No, we mind our rights being violated in a futile attempt to stop them.
Click to expand...
ok... I respect that. How about inviting the current president of the Philippines to become the US drug tsar for a couple of months?
 
I assume you're talking about this?

Mr Duterte, elected in May, has sanctioned the killing of traffickers to try to wipe out the drugs trade.

The UN has repeatedly condemned the drive as a violation of human rights.

Some 900 suspected drug traffickers have been killed since Mr Duterte was elected on 9 May.

Last week, two UN human rights experts said Mr Duterte's directive for police and the public to kill suspected drug traffickers amounted to "incitement to violence and killing, a crime under international law".
Click to expand...
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37147630

That's somewhat outside the boundaries of discussing Amtrak, but I think that it's safe to say that extrajudicial murder is not a core American value and anyone that champions it should take a long look at themselves in the mirror and consider what they're actually saying.
 
Ryan said:
If you think that the police are universally just nice guys doing their jobs, you're sadly misinformed.
Click to expand...
I don't think that any group is "universally" perfect. Not presidents, not train conductors, not pastors, not democrats, not republicans.......

but I support the majority of cops who are doing there job, risking their lives for us. I believe the "anti-cop" rhetoric to be disgusting, and also offensive. Some of us have family members and close friends working as policeman who are good and honest individuals that risk their lives daily for us. I have found most cops are these type of people.
 
Here's the thing(s):

1) There is no reason to give up civil liberties in the name of feeling safe. There are rules, they're there for a reason, and if the police feel that the rules are too restrictive, in our society they're free to lobby to change them. In fact, I'd say the game is tilted in FAVOR of them being able to change them. What they're NOT free to do is ignore, evade, or otherwise try to skirt, obfuscate or avoid them.

2) As long as the current scheme of "Finders Keepers" gives police a financial incentive to fish, they're going to fish. Human nature.

3) I'm as unhappy with the above mentioned "anti-cop rhetoric" as the next person, but the fact of the matter is that a lot of this is reaping what's been sown for the last few decades. A very very SMALL minority of cops are what we would call "bad cops", people who only took the job to have authority over others and should have but for whatever reason weren't screened out at the outset. But as long as the "good cops" continue to COVER for the "bad cops", as long as the "blue wall of silence" remains intact, the "us versus them" mentality isn't going anywhere... and it's not being perpetuated by the citizenry.
 
My biggest complaint is they choose people based on city pairs. The fact that I'm traveling from Chicago to Salt Lake City on a train in my own country should not be enough reason to question me. And yet it seems to be enough.. since I've been questioned for just that. I've mentioned it before on this board, but my personal experience was...

On Board Amtrak, in my Roomette, prior to departure from Chicago

- Officers Greet me, tell me they are conducting "random" security screenings and says "Can I ask you a few questions " - I agreed.

- Proceeds to question me "where are you traveling? why are you traveling? why did you choose the train? did you pack your luggage? was your luggage in your possesion while at the station? do you have any weapons, illegal drugs, or large sums of cash?

- After answering all the questions

Office: "In order to verify what you just said, will you allow us to search your luggage?"

Me: "if I have a choice, then no"

Oficer: You don't wish to allow us to verify that you are telling the truth?

Me: I don't understand that question.

Officer: Is there a reason you don't want your luggage to be searched?

Me: I don't want my luggage searched unless it is required

Officer: Well it appears that you are nervous about your luggage being searched and that concerns me.

Me: I'm not nervous, I'm just confused. Do I have a right to deny the search on my luggage?

Officer: Yes you have that right. But I have the authority to insist that your luggage is searched by a canine before you travel, and I can't guarantee that I can arrange that before your train departs.

Me: So If I deny the search, than you are going to take my luggage off the train?

Officer: Correct for a canine search. Or we can search your luggage here, in your presence.

Me: Then go ahead and do the search.

Which they did... opening every zipper in my luggage, opening a small pelican case, opening my camera bag, and even tearing open a plastic laundry bag (the kind you get from hotels, I had tied it shut).

Again... I was traveling from Chicago to Salt Lake City. Alone. In a Roomette. That is it. I have no police record, no history with drugs, nothing.
 
Yep, that's a perfect example of overreach by LE, no probable cause whatsoever to search your stuff!

I have no problem answering LE questions, letting dogs sniff my luggage or going through detectors at entrances, but the above is the MO of Secret Police which all Americans should despise!
 
And that's what I'm talking about by skirting and obfuscating. TSA does the same thing "Oh, we can sure follow our procedures, but I can't promise that we can do that before your plane leaves". Only this is even worse, because it's color of ACTUAL authority, and you can't even arrive early enough to call their bluff, he could have walked up to you 10 minutes before the train leaves and put you in a Hobson's choice.

It's tactics like this that give people the attitude about the police they have. Is this officer actually interested in HELPING Zephyr? Or is he just looking for any leverage he can find to make his Next Big Score.
 
When does TSA do this sort of thing? They only search your bags if something is detected. I'm not a huge fan of the TSA in general but I haven't had any issues with them.... Except for the slow lines. Ha.
 
TSA does this sort of thing all the time. Google "Do you want to fly today?" or "DYWTFT". Same principle.
 
ToniCounter said:
They have no reason to hassle people, unless they suspect that they can catch people carrying drugs on those trains. I don't doubt many innocent passengers will be inconvenienced by the searches and questioning.

But just think about it... do you want the cops NOT to do their jobs and let Amtrak trains becomes the preferred mode of transportation for the drug dealers/mules? Or have the drugs end up on the streets of Chicago?
Click to expand...
My understanding of how many police organizations work is that making a lot of arrests enhances and officer's career prospects. If you're not making a lot of arrests, maybe you're being lazy on the job. The fact that maybe nobody's committing crimes while you're on duty is not considered an excuse.

As far as the prospect of drug couriers being among the passengers on the trains, I really don't care personally, as long as they're not having violent confrontations that would put the other passengers at risk. (And I suspect that most drug couriers also do not want to have any violent confrontations while they're traveling.)

As far as having "drugs on the streets of Chicago," (or in my case, Baltimore, which is where I live, and which has a hell of a heroin problem,) that's not a problem that can be solved by aggressive law enforcement, especially not aggressive law enforcement directed and suspected random low-level dealers, drug users, or people who happen to have drugs in their possession. How about more money for medical treatment of drug users and less for Rambo-wannabe cops?
 
JoeBas said:
TSA does this sort of thing all the time. Google "Do you want to fly today?" or "DYWTFT". Same principle.
Click to expand...
Ahh. This was more along the lines of "SSS" or "secondary security screening" at airports. Found that doing the Google search. Doesn't sound fun either. I've taken the train way more than flying, so I guess my turn will come up when flying too. Great.
 
Some of us also need to be cognizant of the fact that in certain parts of the country certain shades of skin color by itself is probable cause to determine whether you are legal in this country. It is a good idea to carry around a small proof of citizenship or legal residence, for those folks if they can. If you are lucky to have other shades of skin color you are just lucky since you don't implicitly have a probable cause tattooed on you, by birth. :(

There are subtle ways to reduce the chance of being flagged that way, and learn over time how to do so, as some us have. But until then ....
 
This is another factor that a lot of white Americans tend to poo poo. As a train enthusiast, I've sometimes experienced the reverse of this, with police rolling up (and in one case, doing a stop and frisk) just because they found a white guy hanging out in "that neighborhood" (you know, the kind that trains often run through) "Suspicious". Had my ID run more times than I can count.
 
So has anyone tried just locking their room door when this happens? Force them to swear before a judge there's probable cause, then force them to break into (read: damage) the train car.
 
If it was at night... You could "ignore" the knocking I suppose. If they did force to door open just claim that you are a very sound sleeper. But seeing as how in my experience, it was before we even left Chicago, it's perfectly normal for everyone's door to be opened.
 
ToniCounter said:
I'm confused... so people don't mind drug dealers using Amtrak trains to transport drugs?
Click to expand...
Actually, if the drug dealers are quiet and keep to themselves, then no, I don't mind.

I'd prefer a low-profile drug runner to the loud drunks, cell-phone yakkers and surly crew members that seem to inhabit much of the Amtrak long-distance fleet these days.
 
MattW said:
jebr said:
Yeah, if nothing else they'll just call the conductor, who can force you to open the roomette
Click to expand...
By doing what exactly? Then they would have to explain to Amtrak why they broke the door down.
Click to expand...
"Because the police told me to" would be an answer. ha.

Seriously... your best bet is to try to exercise your right to remain silent. I'm not sure if they have the authority to escort you off the train for no reason or not. It doesn't really matter... they will have a "probable cause" if they need it. You were acting nervous, you "fit the description" of someone they were looking for etc.
 
I've never been hassled. I probably don't fit the right profile. Since I happen to know a civil liberties lawyer, and I also set my own schedule and would not be missing work, I'd be exceptionally inclined to say "I will go along with your demands under protest, but I need to contact my civil liberties lawyer while you're looking at the bags offboard the train -- he'll enjoy this." Of course given my appearance that would probably cause them to just back off.

Of course if asked why I don't want my bags searched my answer would be that I carry confidential investment information and don't want to give it away. This is actually true.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Back
Top