Incomplete Route Maps

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niemi24s

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There may be as many as a dozen maps depicting Amtrak routes. For those who take the train for the scenery as well as just "getting there", these maps can give a preview of the route by showing where the train goes - usually. Usually, because there are some maps that contain omissions of segments of the actual route. Shown below is one example:

Map3XCVSf.jpg

The segment omitted on each of the two maps on the left results in an impossible routing for either the Cardinal or the Crescent because the routes simply cross with no way to switch from one to the other in Charlottesville.

There are several other locations with similar omissions or otherwise incorrect route maps. Have you found any?
 
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The railroad map that was posted (in almost the same thread that was deleted yesterday) around Metropark failed to show it passed a McDonald's adjacent to the track. This is handy just in case the Cardinal runs out of breakfast sandwiches.

A good crew knows the true points of interest along the routes...and that is where to find fire departments and foods. Pre crew certification, a lot of the train crews could tell where the "gin houses" as they were called were located. If you were going to get held, you positioned yourself accordingly.

Here's another example that shows an example of why most maps (which are probably just rough guides) can be considered incomplete:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/31+Station+Dr+Princeton+Junction,+NJ+08550/@40.3185352,-74.6221183,3a,75y,122.93h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m4!1sVgnI6MnEeFSRrZDn0Oo1_A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0xba63a8b4eb46f2cd!6m1!1e1

Most maps fail to show Asian Bistro. This map does. Notice the power lines and part of the double decker train in the background? This used to be Good Friends Chinese restaurant. It is a stones throw away from the tracks, which is pivotal in a service disruption.

i think it imperative more maps include this type of information. It would really help the cause.
 
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I thought Goodfellows went out of business. Did they come back to life again? We used to hold some of the NJ-ARP meetings there while they were in business since they were convenient to Princeton Jct. Station.
 
The railroad map that was posted (in almost the same thread that was deleted yesterday) around Metropark failed to show it passed a McDonald's adjacent to the track. This is handy just in case the Cardinal runs out of breakfast sandwiches.
If this is the "map" you're referring to...

ImpossibleRRRoute.jpg

...it's what you get with Google Maps when you enter CHI and CVS and select Cardinal for the Transit option: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Amtrak+Station+-+CHI,+Chicago,+IL/Amtrak+Station+-+CVS,+810+West+Main+Street,+Charlottesville,+VA+22903/@41.7917492,-87.7063223,12z/data=!4m15!4m14!1m5!1m1!1s0x880e2c8dbbb32f5d:0x5f985dc0044b1109!2m2!1d-87.639389!2d41.8789137!1m5!1m1!1s0x89b3863bd15a7eb7:0x4b2b61a870eb84c0!2m2!1d-78.491811!2d38.0314574!3e3!5i2?hl=en As far as I can tell, this part of the route shown as going down along the Chicago Sanitary & Ship Canal is erroneous - not to mention the abrupt 73° turn at the crossing. Measuring the distance between CHI and Dyer IN using this route using the path tool of Google Earth shows a distance of about 32 miles - 3 miles longer than shown on the Cardinal timetable. However, perhaps perhaps that was the route up until the connection (remnants seen in the SE corner) between the two was torn up.

Using the "eyes" of Google Maps/Google Earth to actually see what's what's adjacent to the tracks is, I find, a good way to prepare for a trip so interesting sights are not missed. But my intent of this thread was simply to illustrate what's shown a map might not be the actual route followed. And after examining the handful of similar errors or omissions I've found so far, the common element in all of them is a simple crossing (no single or double crossovers or slip switches) - either at grade or elevated.

When I first started to fritter away my time doing this nitnoi stuff, I stumbled across a route situation that had me stumped for several days. Finally found a business along a suspected route using Google Earth, called and asked if Amtrak passed by. The answer of "Every day!" confirmed my suspicion. But that was before I had found all the other route maps that were available.

Cheers
 
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The segment omitted on each of the two maps on the left results in an impossible routing for either the Cardinal or the Crescent because the routes simply cross with no way to switch from one to the other in Charlottesville.

There are several other locations with similar omissions or otherwise incorrect route maps. Have you found any?
The route lines on the Track a Train map has been missing the Buckingham Branch RR route of the Cardinal between Charlottesville and Orange VA for quite some time. Maybe from the very start of the Track a Train feature. It is a minor oversight as there are no stations on the alternate route, but it does lead to the Cardinal train showing up as being off the routes shown on the Amtrak map when it travels between CVS and Orange.
 
I'd think that any of the maps purporting to show customary Amtrak routes would (even with any segment omission) show some sort of connection between the stations. But it's the omitted segments that intrigue me because a closer look at the trackwork shows the train just can't do that.

There's another such anomaly on Track A Train (and other maps) for the route of the Northbound Texas Eagle out of San Antonio. At first glance, it appear to depart the station heading North, turn East and then after about another 2 miles make an abrupt 70° turn to the North - from a bridge to the tracks below! The FRA map, however, shows how it really goes.

Thirdrail7's comment in Post #2... "A good crew knows the true points of interest along the routes."...is well taken and I imagine the info available on the web is a great help While it might not be identifiable when viewed from the tracks, Asian Bistro in the example is ID'd on Google Earth, Bing Maps and probably others. And that brings up this question. . .

Q: Does Amtrak provide crews with the physical locations of things along route such as fire departments, hospitals, police, etc?
 
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Does Amtrak still occasionally use the McArthur bridge in St. Louis? If so, that must also throw the map aficionados into a tizzy since that route is not shown on the Amtrak Track-a-Train map.

AFAIR the route into and out of San Antonio for the Texas Eagle are different and that is certainly not reflected in the map. Similarly the details of the Cameron Connection just west of Galesburg is not shown, which would send most likely 3/4 running through the fields for a bit as eastbound it ducks under the Mendota Sub and then swing south onto the connection to join the Mendota Sub making a left turn onto it. The portion from the underpass all the way to the end of the Cameron Connection is not shown in the map. I am sure there are many such route deviations that are not reflected in the map.

As far as I can tell, the map is a more or less reasonable approximation, and leaves room for quibbling about the stuff that is inaccurate as a result. The most glaring one of course is Orange to CVS as far as I could see. but there are many others, like the few that I pointed out
 
Does Amtrak still occasionally use the McArthur bridge in St. Louis?
Don't know. Maybe someone who live in the area does. Looks like an acceptable route on the FRA map. Northbound Texas Eagle I was on a few years ago took the Track A Train Route over the Merchants Bridge a few miles upstream from the MacArthur Bridge.

Another San Antonio curiosity shows up on Google Maps... https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Amtrak+Station+-+SMC,+San+Marcos,+TX/Amtrak+Station+-+DRT,+North+Main+Street,+Del+Rio,+TX/@29.3793934,-98.5084606,12z/data=!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x865ca861098b5737:0xb1ea50a67402cbdf!2m2!1d-97.9411445!2d29.8764583!1m5!1m1!1s0x86f5eb42b2c9c6db:0x9cc5be14d983555f!2m2!1d-100.9017593!2d29.3631981!3e3?hl=en ...in the form of the little loop that's a part of all TE routes (According to Google Maps) located 9 miles SSW of the station at the Pilgrim's Pride plant. Only been through SAS once, on the Northbound TE, but I don't remember the whole train going down that way. Maybe its just used to turn locomotives? Instead of the turntable just 1¼ miles North of the station? Maybe it's not used at all by Amtrak - I just don't know.
 
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Does Amtrak still occasionally use the McArthur bridge in St. Louis?
Don't know. Maybe someone who live in the area does. Looks like an acceptable route on the FRA map. Northbound Texas Eagle I was on a few years ago took the Track A Train Route over the Merchants Bridge a few miles upstream from the MacArthur Bridge.
In my six or seven trips between St Louis and Chicago this year we've been on the MacArthur bridge every time! Last year was a mix of both. (I'm mostly on the Lincoln Service trains rather than the Texas Eagle though.)
 
I read that it's at "dispatcher discretion" which bridge to use but that the MacArthur Bridge is preferred because the approach track is faster. The Merchants Bridge is only used if there's some sort of traffic tangle on the MacArthur Bridge route.

In San Antonio, Google Maps is confused. I read that the Texas Eagle goes around the line on the west side of San Antonio if necessary to face the correct direction; dunno if this is correct.
 
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I remember a ride on the TE from Temple to San Antonio where we did go through the west side of town, then did a 180 turn and entered the station from the south.
 
Neroden: You are correct about #21 circling the West side of San Antonio on the old Mopac Line in order to reach the Sunset Station ( ex SP)which is located downtown close to the Alamo Dome and only a few blocks from the Riverwalk and Alamo.( it actually takes longer for the circle than it does for the journey from Austin to the outskirts of San Antonio by the Airport!)

During this circle of the West side, it passes the old nicely restored IG&N/Mopac Station which the City of San Antinio has purchased and has plans to use as an Inter-model Station for busses and Amtrak.

#22 uses a different route,it backs out of the Station and uses the old SP Line to Kirby where it then transitions to the old Mopac/MKT Line on its journey North to stops in San Marcos and Austin.
 
So 21 gets into SAS following this route with no backing up prior to arrival at the station?

RRMapSanAntonioc.jpg

Then after it gets hooked shuffled up with the Sunset Limited, does it usually depart as shown, heading forward and South?
 
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Is that a better choice of words? :p

Is that turntable just North of the station used at all for any of the shuffling?
 
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Well, there are cases where two trains get hooked up in toto with each other, e.g. the Lake Shore Limited sections in Albany. The only thing that comes off is the dual mode engine that brings the New York Section. Everything else literally gets hooked on end to end the New York Section behind the Boston Section. What happens in San Antonio is very different from that. So yes, not only is it a better chocie of words, it is a more accurate description of what happens. ;)

I don;t believe the turntable is used on a regular basis for much, but I could be wrong.
 
Niemi, you have drawn the correct route for #21. #22 backs up until it's facing east, then heads straight out on that line (the one which goes past Fort Sam Houston).

The route of the Sunset Limited to the west is obvious. To go east, the Sunset Limited exits the station to the north and goes east on the Del Rio Sub.

If Lone Star Rail is ever built, Amtrak will most likely move to the restored former IG&N/MoPac station, which is on the line on the west side of town, along with the commuter rail. If this happens, it becomes undesirable to run the Sunset Limited all the way through, because the train would have to wye in each direction at San Antonio (as the CZ does at Denver, but the nearest wyes are much further away). Running the Texas Eagle through to the western half of the Sunset Limited, by contrast, becomes simple. The "Sunset Shuttle" from San Antonio to New Orleans can then be wyed without passengers, taking as long as it needs.
 
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Added the location of the possible new Station in San Antonio to the map in Post #14. Hope it's in the correct location. In addition, the path tool of Google Earth shows that the reversal distances for a "zero length train" (station-around the wye or loop-station) are:

• SAS using the loop in the yard NE of the station = 6.1 miles

• SAS using the wye SW of the station = 8.3 miles

• SAS using the loop SSE of the station at the Pilgrim's Pride plant = 23.3 miles

• I&GN/MoPac using the wye SE of the station (same wye as above) = 6.0 miles

• I&GN/MoPac using the wye NE of the station ≈ 20 miles

• DEN using the really close UP wye = 1.8 miles
 
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There are parallel lines between the Savannah station and a point ten miles to the south. One is ex-SAL (the "west route") and the other is ex-ACL (the "east route"). At one point they are over a mile apart. CSX dispatchers run 52/53, 91/92, and 97/98 either way. Operationally it doesn't matter to Amtrak. The east route has faster track speed but it's longer. The red lines on Amtrak map's show only the east route. The background for asm.transitdocs.com does show the west route in gray, and sometimes you'll see an Amtrak train on it.
 
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You get an employee timetable (ETT) for the host railroad. But don't bother asking the railroads themselves. Shop around on eBay or other sites. Sometimes ETTs are posted on the Internet.
 
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There are parallel lines between the Savannah station and a point ten miles to the south. One is ex-SAL (the "west route") and the other is ex-ACL (the "east route"). At one point they are over a mile apart. CSX dispatchers run 52/53, 91/92, and 97/98 either way. Operationally it doesn't matter to Amtrak. The east route has faster track speed but it's longer. The red lines on Amtrak map's show only the east route. The background for asm.transitdocs.com does show the west route in gray, and sometimes you'll see an Amtrak train on it.
A somewhat similar situation occurs in Spokane. The BNSF route through downtown runs on ex-NP tracks on the Spokane sub. About a mile west of the station, the NP route makes a left turn (southwest) and becomes the Lakeside sub. The Spokane sub crosses the Latah Creek Bridge, nearly a mile long and 200andsomething feet high, before it also makes a left turn over I-90 and also heads southwest over ex-SP&S tracks. The two parallel each other, with the Spokane sub being the more westerly of the two,for over 10 miles before converging again. At that point the Spokane sub ends. At times the two are nearly a mile apart; at others the two are so close engineers operating trains could practically shake hands if they passed each other. The Empire Builder (trains #27 and 28) uses both tracks. However, in almost all if not all cases, 27 uses the Spokane sub exclusively and 28 the Lakeside sub exclusively. Freight traffic is usually routed this way too. None of the maps I've seen that show Amtrak routes indicate both routes being used. The Google transit map for instance shows Amtrak using the Spokane sub only and the ASM map shows Amtrak using the Lakeside sub only.
And to add to the confusion :p , at the west end of the Latah Creek bridge where the Spokane sub makes its left turn, yet another set of tracks makes a right turn. These tracks become the Columbia sub, which Empire Builders 7 & 8 use on their run to Seattle.
 
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