Diner Seating

Up until the last year or so, we were always seated at a table with other passengers at the same time. We were often seated at an empty table if no other passengers were arriving at that time, but It seemed to me that if another couple arrived before we had placed our order, we would have dining companions. If we had already placed our order, we would be left alone for that meal.

However, lately we've been seated with others at any point in the meal. We've been added to tables where people were finishing their desserts, & when those passengers left new people took their place - to watch and wait for their orders while we ate ours.

This table rotation system is a lot easier is people are sharing sides of the table - if the early seating is done, they can just vacate their side of the table, & the late arrivers don't have to get up to let them out. So, I get that problem from Amtrak's perspective.

It's common courtesy when dining with others to wait until everyone is served before eating your meal. It's just weird and rude for some people at the table to be eating their meals while others are just sitting there watching them eat. If Amtrak has moved entirely away from passengers actually dining together & now are simply sharing table space for part of a meal, then my interest in eating meals in the dining car is all but gone.

D.P. Roberts said:

Up until the last year or so, we were always seated at a table with other passengers at the same time. We were often seated at an empty table if no other passengers were arriving at that time, but It seemed to me that if another couple arrived before we had placed our order, we would have dining companions. If we had already placed our order, we would be left alone for that meal.

However, lately we've been seated with others at any point in the meal. We've been added to tables where people were finishing their desserts, & when those passengers left new people took their place - to watch and wait for their orders while we ate ours.

This table rotation system is a lot easier is people are sharing sides of the table - if the early seating is done, they can just vacate their side of the table, & the late arrivers don't have to get up to let them out. So, I get that problem from Amtrak's perspective.

It's common courtesy when dining with others to wait until everyone is served before eating your meal. It's just weird and rude for some people at the table to be eating their meals while others are just sitting there watching them eat. If Amtrak has moved entirely away from passengers actually dining together & now are simply sharing table space for part of a meal, then my interest in eating meals in the dining car is all but gone.

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Yup, this is my biggest complaint with the whole dining car seating system. Again inconsistency seems to be the norm here. On the Sunset, people were seated together at the start of the meal and left alone on the other trains, I have been on, it seemed to be whatever and whoever decided at the moment.

FormerOBS said:

Hats:

Yes, Conductors are expected to remove their hats when passing through the diner, at least at times when meals are being served.

I recall a time several years ago when a couple entered the dining car with their teenaged son. I was pretty surprised when one of my coworkers went way out on a limb & exceeded his authority by saying to the son (very quietly and with respect) "Sir, would you please remove your hat while you're in the dining car?"

Nobody complained. In fact, the expression on the Mom's face said something like, "I'm glad somebody is able to teach my son some manners. I sure haven't managed it. Maybe there's hope for the kid after all."

Tom

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That's totally out of line in my opinion, and I would have absolutely complained if I had witnessed that.

chakk said:

I've never been seated at a table where the other parties were halfway through their meal. Amtrak stewards always placed me at a new table. Sometimes, if no other comes in I eat alone for the entire meal.

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I have. Both on Amtrak and VIA rail. VIA Rail it's just been for breakfast, but Amtrak it's happened at every meal I think. It's not the norm., but it does happen.

As to the original post... I've noticed that on the single level trains, LSA's will seat couples across from each other, or solo travelers across from each other when they know they have a light load. On the West Coast, they seem to cram them in 4 to a booth, even if 60% of the tables remain empty.

FormerOBS said:

Hats:

Yes, Conductors are expected to remove their hats when passing through the diner, at least at times when meals are being served.

I recall a time several years ago when a couple entered the dining car with their teenaged son. I was pretty surprised when one of my coworkers went way out on a limb & exceeded his authority by saying to the son (very quietly and with respect) "Sir, would you please remove your hat while you're in the dining car?"

Nobody complained. In fact, the expression on the Mom's face said something like, "I'm glad somebody is able to teach my son some manners. I sure haven't managed it. Maybe there's hope for the kid after all."

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i thought i had read that as of a couple years ago the amtrak service standards no longer required conductors to remove their hats in the diner. from my recent observations i would say about 60% do and 40% don't. one of my favorite small sights on amtrak is a conductor, without breaking stride, removing the hat with the first step into the diner and replacing it with the last step out

I'm pretty sure that rule was in effect when I retired 1-1/2 years ago. Don't know about current rules. As a patron, I always remove my hat in a public restaurant --- even a fast food restaurant --- because about 4 centuries ago I was taught that it was good manners.

Tom

Does anyone feel a little putout when after leaving a tip close to the center of the table you realize the party across is leaving at the same time as you without leaving a tip.

We all have our own measures of civility. I am glad mother sent me to the 20th Century Women's Club every Thursday night in 6th, 7th and 8th grade to learn Ballroom Dancing from Miss Rose (who snapped your ears with her castanets that she used to keep time when you missed a step) in a suit complete with white gloves. It taught me to hate dancing and suits which has stood me good stead through the years. What it did teach me is that there is a level of behavior for varying activities. When at a Cotillion, act as Cotillion goers should act.

I have asked those seated with us in a diner to remove their hats. If they don't I begin berating them until they get so tired of listening to this old man rant they take their headgear off.

I am not in this world to impose my will on anyone else. There is a reason certain invasions our country has conducted in the last two decades have failed and cost of thousands of lives of our children to no end: not everyone wants democracy. One of the first rules of sobriety is you can't give someone something they do not want.

This however does not compare to the common courtesy of a man removing a hat while indoors. Gives credence to mothers contention that certain people should not breed.

I was not aware the Conductor was instructed to remove their hat while moving through the diner. Bravo Amtrak !!!

andersone said:

We all have our own measures of civility. I am glad mother sent me to the 20th Century Women's Club every Thursday night in 6th, 7th and 8th grade to learn Ballroom Dancing from Miss Rose (who snapped your ears with her castanets that she used to keep time when you missed a step) in a suit complete with white gloves. It taught me to hate dancing and suits which has stood me good stead through the years. What it did teach me is that there is a level of behavior for varying activities. When at a Cotillion, act as Cotillion goers should act.

I have asked those seated with us in a diner to remove their hats. If they don't I begin berating them until they get so tired of listening to this old man rant they take their headgear off.

I am not in this world to impose my will on anyone else. There is a reason certain invasions our country has conducted in the last two decades have failed and cost of thousands of lives of our children to no end: not everyone wants democracy. One of the first rules of sobriety is you can't give someone something they do not want.

This however does not compare to the common courtesy of a man removing a hat while indoors. Gives credence to mothers contention that certain people should not breed.

I was not aware the Conductor was instructed to remove their hat while moving through the diner. Bravo Amtrak !!!

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Yeah sure, dude...I'm really going to ask some burly oil field worker who has spent his last month working Bakken crude out of Williston to remove his hat! I think I'll just buy him a beer and talk about his family he's so anxious to get home to.

There are 18 tables in a Superliner diner. Two tables are the mise en place and one table is the crew table. The mise en place are necessary because there simply is not enough counter space in the pantry for all the set-ups, silverware trays, stacks of napkins and condiments, bread baskets and such.

Amtrak policy states that one waiter is supposed to work four tables though most crews push this to five tables or even six when absolutely necessary. This means that when there are only two waiters working the dining car, only ten or twelve of the available fifteen tables are supposed to be seated. Some of you all drive me nuts when I read complaining about seating in the dining car when there are empty tables. It's NOT the empty tables that matter, it IS the full or planned to be full tables. One waiter cannot efficiently and properly wait on more than 16-20 passengers at a time. Remember the waiter also does all the busing and resetting those tables too.

For the open seating meals such as breakfast and on some trains lunch, all the above still applies. I myself don't find it very tactful to seat two people at a table when the earlier passengers seated there are already eating. In most cases I would leave those first two passengers alone to finish their meal and seat the next two guests at a new table. This isn't possible though in every single instance. At reserved seatings though that should never happen. If it does then the LSA has poorly planned their seating chart. Also with the reserved meals the seating is supposed to be staggered. Each waiter gets two tables then 15-30 minutes later will be seated two more tables. Again, this is why there are empty tables not because Amtrak employees love forcing every passenger to sit with other passengers.

When on a train that isn't that full and there actually are empty usable tables, if and when a couple wants to sit alone then I would always oblige even over any objections of my waiters. I also encourage current LSAs to not be so rigid in seating when it's possible. I've always strove to not say "no" to customers whenever possible. That philosophy has always worked well.

As to couples that want to sit across from each other instead of side by side, it's very simple, it's not that big of a deal. If you want another person, who will likely be a stranger, sitting next to your spouse then I have no objections and it DOES bother me that so many LSAs get all bent out of shape about it. The way it is dealt with is that the couple that gets seated with you will be seated ladies on one side and gentlemen on the opposite side. It's not rocket science.

seat38a said:

BCL said:

I tend to agree with several of the answers. You simply don't get options to sit by yourself at a table or to choose the way you sit. In addition, more people prefer to sit next to each other in that configuration. It would make it tougher to find a space for another pair.

The last couple of times I was in a dining car it was four separate passengers and then two together with two separate (but four checks). They will do almost anything they can to avoid having tables that aren't filled.

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I just don't get this whole fill every seat in the table crap. Really annoying when they seat someone halfway through your meal. They have so many empty tables, but lets not even forget the 6 / 8 tables that seem to always be full of crap or used by the crew to chat or talk smack on their fellow crew members.

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There is never 6 or 8 tables full of stuff in the dining car. That's an extreme exaggeration. There are two for the mise en place, one for a crew table and perhaps one for the LSA when there are tables that aren't planned to be used. That's four out of eighteen tables. If there are only two waiters then they will only be using ten or twelve out of the remaining fourteen tables.

anumberone said:

Does anyone feel a little putout when after leaving a tip close to the center of the table you realize the party across is leaving at the same time as you without leaving a tip.

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No. It is their personal decision. It is their life to live , not yours.

Thank you, EB_OBS, for the explanation of procedures in the dining car. Most of what you said, I had concluded, but it's nice to have it explained.

willem said:

Thank you, EB_OBS, for the explanation of procedures in the dining car. Most of what you said, I had concluded, but it's nice to have it explained.

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I second that thank you. I wasn't as bright as willem at figuring it out, and I just always assumed it was a random decision of the LSA.

I've only been on the dining cars on the Silvers, and I have never been unhappy with how I've been seated. However, because I travel by myself, I do enjoy having meals with others. I'm left-handed, so once in a while I have had to switch with my neighbor so I don't poke them with my elbow.

To me, it is unprofessional and potentially sloppy when the Diner Crew puts all their "stuff" on display at an otherwise usabale table; check me if I'm wrong (and I doubt I am) but you never would have seen this in pre-Amtrak operations. Unfortunately, as EB_OBS explains the design of the Superliner Diner makes this a necessity; hopefully one that has been taken into consideration in the Viewliner design.

And how about bringing back a little Dining Car Music; stuff that is smooth and low volume-think Fashion Show in North By Northwest

OlympianHiawatha said:

And how about bringing back a little Dining Car Music; stuff that is smooth and low volume-think Fashion Show in North By Northwest

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Actually, I don't think that's a good idea. Even low volume background noise can make it hard for me to hear others and I know I'm not the only deaf/hard of hearing person riding trains (we have several AU members who probably agree with me).

The problem with music is that it is hard to find one that is soothing for all. It is better to skip it instead. Just IMHO. Better to let people use their own music of their own taste as they see fit given the equipment that is available today.

If some burly oil worker decides to pop an old man in the jaw, or whatever so be it - and I would gratefully discuss his opportunity to rejoin his loved ones in a civil manner,,, having lived on the road once on my life I understand full well what home means. doesn't stop me from asking him to remove his hat,, usually it is phrased "do an old man a favor and be kind enough not to wear your hat while we are eating" as Mother said, if you can't be pleasant don't be present,,,

as for the wasted space I concur it is unnerving to see pre-ops in public,,, and this summer we had four wait staff on the CZ both ways,,, but only at supper were there empty tables (we eat late) breakfast and lunch had every table full,,,

I rarely have issues with the staff,, however the rudeness of some the patrons that are an issue for me

Shanti,, I shall shut up from here on

I don't know... seems to me that the best possible music is already there: the sounds of the train

andersone said:

If some burly oil worker decides to pop an old man in the jaw, or whatever so be it - and I would gratefully discuss his opportunity to rejoin his loved ones in a civil manner,,, having lived on the road once on my life I understand full well what home means. doesn't stop me from asking him to remove his hat,, usually it is phrased "do an old man a favor and be kind enough not to wear your hat while we are eating" as Mother said, if you can't be pleasant don't be present,,,

as for the wasted space I concur it is unnerving to see pre-ops in public,,, and this summer we had four wait staff on the CZ both ways,,, but only at supper were there empty tables (we eat late) breakfast and lunch had every table full,,,

I rarely have issues with the staff,, however the rudeness of some the patrons that are an issue for me

Shanti,, I shall shut up from here on

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People wear hats in food service for the same reason they wear hairnets - it keeps hair from falling into your food.

So, if a conductor or a fellow passenger wants to wear a hat in the dining car, I'm all in favor of it. And I would MUCH rather they leave the hat on than take it off while in that car - if you've been wearing a hat for a few hours or even all day, there's a far greater chance that a lot more hair is going to come off when you remove the hat.

Sanitation trumps civility.

I am all for allowing people to do whatever they like regarding hats and prefer others not to make a nuisance of themselves to enforce whatever they happen to think others should do to conform to their tastes. Just IMHO of course.

I'm with D.P. Roberts and jis on this silly hat "issue." I would never use the self pitiful phrase "do an old man a favor" even if I am 70+. In fact, I choose to not wear my hat in the dining car and that is my choice. I have actually had some wonderful conversations with people wearing hats. Hey, andersone...how did this guy slip by you?

http://blog.keloland.com/lund/files/2010/09/amtrak-dining-car.jpg

Some (at least) Superliner diners had their 18th table removed to provide space for a point-of-service system that evidently was flawed and was never actually implemented. I never understood that because at the time (1990's) I knew that UPS drivers were able to keep their entire truck inventory on a simple computer tablet. Certainly a similar device could have been employed on the train, where storage and seating space are always at a premium. When that early P.O.S. system was abandoned, the 18th table was not restored. I always said it should be, and the cost of the restoration should be assessed against the budget of the Department that employed the dimwit who ordered the table's removal in the first place. Of course nobody paid attention to that. The cabinets that were installed in place of the 18th table were designed for the P.O.S, system, and weren't quite right for the things that we ended up storing there, but we managed to adjust.

In recent years, we rarely have been able to set up a crew table on my train because we didn't have the space available. Crew members eat wherever and whenever they can, often standing up. We tried to keep a table for mis en place, but sometimes overbookings by the station agents made that impossible. (On the A-Train, meal reservations are set up by the station agents --- not the LSA). Many Auto Train practices differed from the practices on other trains because the practical considerations were not quite the same. To be successful you have to adjust your policies and practices to the situation.

Tom

D.P. Roberts said:

andersone said:

If some burly oil worker decides to pop an old man in the jaw, or whatever so be it - and I would gratefully discuss his opportunity to rejoin his loved ones in a civil manner,,, having lived on the road once on my life I understand full well what home means. doesn't stop me from asking him to remove his hat,, usually it is phrased "do an old man a favor and be kind enough not to wear your hat while we are eating" as Mother said, if you can't be pleasant don't be present,,,

as for the wasted space I concur it is unnerving to see pre-ops in public,,, and this summer we had four wait staff on the CZ both ways,,, but only at supper were there empty tables (we eat late) breakfast and lunch had every table full,,,

I rarely have issues with the staff,, however the rudeness of some the patrons that are an issue for me

Shanti,, I shall shut up from here on

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People wear hats in food service for the same reason they wear hairnets - it keeps hair from falling into your food.

So, if a conductor or a fellow passenger wants to wear a hat in the dining car, I'm all in favor of it. And I would MUCH rather they leave the hat on than take it off while in that car - if you've been wearing a hat for a few hours or even all day, there's a far greater chance that a lot more hair is going to come off when you remove the hat.

Sanitation trumps civility.

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As I am a Longhair, I fully agree. I usually wear a Beret during the day on the train, and if I take it off at the table, not only will my hair be a mess, strays could fall onto my plate or the table, and few thinsg are nastier, even to a Longhair, than loose strands of hair.

AmtrakBlue said:

Actually, I don't think that's a good idea. Even low volume background noise can make it hard for me to hear others and I know I'm not the only deaf/hard of hearing person riding trains (we have several AU members who probably agree with me).

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Here is one agreeing with you.