Southeast Flooding (October 2015) - Weather related cancellations

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A Voice said:
There is a new update on Amtrak.com, basically confirming what we already knew. The Palmetto, Silver Meteor, and Auto Train are cancelled today and tomorrow (and probably longer, but it doesn't state that). The Carolinian and Silver Star (Jacksonville to Miami only) are operating.

Track-a-train shows #97 on the move in Florida, though the Amtrak notice simply says it is cancelled and makes no mention of it running in the sunshine state. Empty equipment move, perhaps?
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98 originated yesterday, 10/5, with the intention of operating to NYP. That plan was nixed mid-morning and 98 terminated in JAX. Thus 97 is operating JAX-MIA today with the equipment that would otherwise have been sitting in JAX.

The Star is operating a baby consist of one baggage car, one lounge and three coaches between MIA-JAX. I suspect the new cafe menu which will be catered out of NYP isn't starting on the Star tomorrow... :D
 
Is the Crescent running? This may sound like a dumb question, but could the Silver trains be re-routed from JAX to Atlanta and up the Crescent route to DC?
 
The Crescent is running.

The NCDOT Piedmont Service trains are running.

The Carolinian is running with two engines and two extra coaches (bringing the train up to 9 cars) to accommodate passengers who otherwise would have been riding the Palmetto or Silver Star to points north of Raleigh. Not much but it is something.
 
I recently spoke to yet another phone agent who informed me that Amtrak has not yet canceled either 98 or the Auto Train for Thursday. According to the agent, when 98 is showing sold out, it is because it is sold out. Seats are still being sold on Thursday's AT. I think I am receiving conflicting information because nobody is sure what will happen.
 
According to latest posting from Gene Poon on trainorders, quoting CSX sources, a bridge just south of Kingstree SC is out and will require rebuilding. If that is true, no matter how much Amtrak agents think something is running it probably is not. The scuttlebutt is that things may start running detoured via the S-Line when it opens sometime around Friday. I am keeping a close eye on the developments wondering whether my return trip from Washington will also have to devolve to a big silver bird.

There is some confusion about whether it is the three span girder bridge across a creek just a few thousand feet south of Kingstree SC station or it is the Periopolis bridge that was reported in trouble last night and it is a vertical lift over the Cooper River about 3000 feet downstream from the dam that backs up Lake Moultrie.

Anyway, apparently this is fresh from CSX sources. All of course to be taken as hearsay until there is some independent verification. But I suppose we will know soon enough.

Amtrak has the following Alert as of 11:15am this morning:

Due to weather conditions still impacting railroad operations in the Southeast, Amtrak continues to suspend some services along the East Coast for today, Oct. 6, and Wednesday, Oct. 7.

Palmetto Trains 89 & 90 (Savannah, Ga. - New York City) is canceled.

Silver Star Trains 91 & 92 (New York City - Miami) is suspended between New York City and Jacksonville, Fla.

Silver Meteor Trains 97 & 98 is canceled.

Auto Train 52 & 53 (Lorton, Va., - Sanford, Fla.) is canceled.
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Amtrak has both Silver Star and Silver Meteor shown as operating on Thursday. I would wait until the notification alerts Wednesday morning before betting on it. Anyway both 92 and 98 have all Sleepers sold out
 
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jis said:
According to latest posting from Gene Poon on trainorders, quoting CSX sources, a bridge just south of Kingstree SC is out and will require rebuilding.
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Oy. Well, it's actually quite quick to replace fixed-span bridges; I've seen 'em replaced in a week. What is not quick is replacing bridge *piers*, so a lot depends on whether the piers are damaged.

There is some confusion about whether it is the three span girder bridge across a creek just a few thousand feet south of Kingstree SC station or it is the Periopolis bridge that was reported in trouble last night and it is a vertical lift over the Cooper River about 3000 feet downstream from the dam that backs up Lake Moultrie.
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....and lift bridges are harder to replace, because they're quite uncommon these days.
 
Alex M. said:
Is the Crescent running? This may sound like a dumb question, but could the Silver trains be re-routed from JAX to Atlanta and up the Crescent route to DC?
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If we were talking about freight, the cars would simply be rerouted around the routes which are out of service. In fact, they probably are already. But we're talking about time sensitive cargo - people. Few passengers would want to endure the extra 6 or 8 hours the trip would take to detour like that. Plus, there are a whole lot of other problems that need to be surmounted, such as getting enough crews, and qualified pilots, extra fuel, and trying to solicit the cooperation of CSX and NS to run these extra trains when those detour lines would probably already be overloaded with freight that is being rerouted.

Another problem is that your suggested detour only serves those who want to go between points south and inclusive of Savannah to points north and inclusive of mid North Carolina.

So while it's totally possible, it's not very probable.

Others are welcome to chime in.

jb
 
Now it is confirmed that the bridge in question is the one just south of Kingstree station, and they have not been able to verify whether the bridge is still there or not at least till last night as water was still flowing in torrents over the bridge deck, or where it should have been.

Apparently preparations are being made for detouring over the S-Line as soon as it reopens. It is now believed that the S-Line will reopen before the A-Line. There will be some directional running on a couple of alternate routings between the A-Line and the S-Line is what has been mentioned by someone from CSX internal knowledge on trainorders.

All Amtrak trains between RVR and JAX remain suspended through Thursday now. The Silvers have been now blocked for Thursday too. However, no new notice from Amtrak yet as of 7am EDT on the 7th.
 
What I have to say is as uncertain as everybody else's ideas because there are way too many unknowns.

Regarding detours, it is possible to detour over the S line and/or over NS via Atlanta. I have been on the Auto Train on detours over both of these routes in the past. I understand that there are lower speed limits on both lines, longer distances, and fewer locations where there is more than one main line track. Those factors alone would mean it would be very difficult --- probably impossible --- to run anywhere near on time, or to be able to predict arrival times at with any degree of certainty. Add to this the normal daily freight traffic that must also be put on those tracks, plus all the backlogged freight traffic that has accumulated at both north end and south end over the past several days, and you have a railroad that will probably start out at a near-glacial pace.

I think the NS via Atlanta routing was used only once, and I think the Auto Train was the only one that used it. I don't remember how long it took us to come up SFA-JAX-Atlanta-Greensboro-Selma-LOR, but it was a L-O-N-G run (there are some things in life you'd rather not remember). If I recall correctly, everybody was amazed that Amtrak, CSX, and NS were able to patch this routing together.

I have friends who were scheduled to take the Auto Train over the past several days: one couple traveling north; one couple traveling south. Fortunately, both couples were able to get around the flooding by driving west all the way to Spartanburg. It was a long and rough trip, but both couples made it safely.

Right now my biggest concern and regret is that I won't get to meet Penny at the Gathering. :(

Tom
 
Tom, as far as detour routes go, this is what people are hearing so far:

NB A-Line traffic will be rerouted via Columbia and Hamlet, SB traffic will detour via Hamlet-Greenwood-Augusta-Fairfax and south onto the Columbia sub towards Savannah.
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Here is the Amtrak.com alert from Wednesday Octiber 7, 2015:

Oct. 7, 2015
2:15 p.m. ET

Due to weather conditions still impacting railroad operations in the Southeast, Amtrak continues to suspend some services along the East Coast for today, Oct. 7, and Thursday, Oct. 8. No alternate transportation will be provided.

Palmetto Trains 89 & 90 (Savannah, Ga. - New York City) is canceled.

Silver Star Trains 91 & 92 (New York City - Miami) is suspended between New York City and Jacksonville, Fla.

Silver Meteor Trains 97 & 98 is canceled.

Auto Train 52 & 53 (Lorton, Va., - Sanford, Fla.) is canceled.

This information is correct as of the above time and date. Information is subject to change as conditions warrant.
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Now there is official word from CSX partially excerpted below:

October 7, 2015

CSX operations in South Carolina continue to be impacted by recent flooding. The line between Charleston, S.C. and Florence, S.C. is flooded near Kingstree, S.C., with water levels slowly receding. Customers with freight traveling across this line should expect delays of 24 to 48 hours. Traffic scheduled through this area is being re-routed and other lines are being restored as quickly as possible to allow service to local customers.

.......
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With the prospect that the S-line will probably open up before the A-line, things will start detouring over the S-line. Capacity is somewhat limited there, and I'm wondering (out loud) if some of the trains will be combined in order to get them through the constricted track a little more efficiently. How about a 92/98 & 91/97 combo?

jb
 
Might see an expanded Silver Star (extra sleepers and diner from the Meteor) back in service before the Silver Meteor. Not sure with all the dislocated traffic that they would be able to get the Auto-Train back and forth quickly enough to do same day turns with the consist though.
 
jis said:
Now it is confirmed that the bridge in question is the one just south of Kingstree station, and they have not been able to verify whether the bridge is still there or not at least till last night as water was still flowing in torrents over the bridge deck, or where it should have been.
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The three-span girder. OK, so this is how this goes:

(1) They have to wait for the water to recede.

(2) They look to see the state of the bridge abutments and piers.

(3) If the abutments and piers are intact and undamaged (unlikely at this point), they order prefabricated bridge spans and are probably back in service in a week.

(4) If the abutments and piers are mildly scoured, they have to build coffer dams and repair them -- it takes weeks and weeks. They might be able to run traffic very slowly before finishing repairs.

(5) If the abutments and piers are severely scoured, they have to completely rebuild the abutments and their foundations -- it could take a year. They'll probably try to build some sort of temporary bridge in the meantime.

I assume the line through Mullins, Morrisville, Andrews, and Jamestown (I don't know its name -- it was Seaboard's line near the coast) is out too. If it doesn't have any major bridge washouts and the bridge repairs on the A line take a long time, CSX might want to beef up that line to carry the traffic.
 
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Do not know condition of this route but one additional reroute could be

Selma - Raleigh - Greensboro - Charlotte - Columbia ( NS ) - Savannah .

This may become part of a directional running scheme if "A" line out for extended period. Hardest part will be qualifying crews but that may be accelerated..

Whatever finally happens expect that there will be several directed service bulletins from the FRA - US DOT. Been a while but used to be ICC issued them a lot.
 
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Just heard that 91/92 will operate the full route effective Friday, 10/9.
 
The AGR agent I talked to said that is what they have been told. Other than that, we have also heard so from one of our own reliable insiders. But as they say, you can't be sure until the proverbial fat lady sings :)
 
Notelvis said:
Does anyone have any confirmation/additional details on 91/92 resuming full operation tomorrow (Fri, Oct 9)?
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The confirmation is posted on Amtrak's website, also confirming the Palmetto, Meteor, and Auto Train are cancelled.

Seaboard92 said:
What's the likelihood that they will merge the Star and the Meteor together. As well as run a detoured auto train
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3.14159% give or take. :)

Seriously, I'd guess further adjustments might happen after CSX better understands just how long the A-line will be out of service, and how fluid the detour options work out. Delays combined with a longer running time would be a real problem for Auto Train making a same day turn at each terminal.
 
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