Reno to Wolf Point = doesn't exist?

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But I can book, Reno to SAC, to Portland or Seattle and then the Empire Builder from either of those - to Wolf Point. So what am I doing wrong? Connections are too far apart in time or what?

On a humorous note, if I try to book Reno to Flagstaff, it sends me to Galesburg, 36 hours, then on to the Southwest Chief, 30 hours back again. Why doesn't it just send me down from Sac to LA and then Flagstaff?

Dallas is similar with a bus ride from Galesburg as a bonus. But there's rail Pacific Surfliner and Sunset Limited, which would be shorter?

Why does this happen?

Amazingly, Amtrak does not have all possible city pairs programmed into its booking system. I say "amazingly" because in this day and age, it's unfathomable that a travel company would turn away customers who wish to purchase an itinerary that in all other respects is possible (i.e. it has legal connections). There are many city pairs for which this is true. (For example, Reno to virtually every location along the Empire Builder route...all possible with legal connections in SAC and PDX, but not possible to book as a continuous itinerary on Amtrak.com)

As to "why" it happens, it's because there just aren't that many people who would consider Amtrak a viable choice to get from Reno to places along the EB route. It's circuitous and time-consuming. That said, it's possible to cobble this itinerary together using the "multi-city" function on the website.

If you are wanting to go to Wolf Point as a way to get the most bang for your AGR award buck, then there is a way of requesting that route be added to the booking engine so that an AGR agent will book it for you. But I think in this case you may be better off simply getting to SAC on your own dime and booking the award from there. The upcoming change to AGR will make routes like this a far less attractive redemption, and I suspect Amtrak isn't in any hurry to add city pairs just so AGR types can squeeze in a few last joy rides.

I have the impression that Amtrak has actively removed some of the longer published routes that used to be available. There were connections from Empire Builder cities to Sunset Limited cities earlier this year, and I have seen comments regarding connections from Sunset Limited cities to Empire Builder cities.

In particular, I understand that some people have redeemed travel from Texas to Columbus, WI, via the Coast Starlight. That got quashed with the circle trip rule, even though it was and is the only routing that avoids an overnight stay off the train. Since the circle trip rule put an end to it, I wonder why someone went to the bother of removing it from the listed routes.

willem said:

I have the impression that Amtrak has actively removed some of the longer published routes that used to be available. There were connections from Empire Builder cities to Sunset Limited cities earlier this year, and I have seen comments regarding connections from Sunset Limited cities to Empire Builder cities. In particular, I understand that some people have redeemed travel from Texas to Columbus, WI, via the Coast Starlight. That got quashed with the circle trip rule, even though it was and is the only routing that avoids an overnight stay off the train. Since the circle trip rule put an end to it, I wonder why someone went to the bother of removing it from the listed routes.

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That is my understanding as well. If you look many if not most of the formerly available connections are for longer trips and apparently that's not something AGR wants to offer anymore. Or at least doesn't want to offer until the long distance points requirements skyrocket in January.

$2135 for a roomette (ABQ-DEN-ELP-CHI-WAS-STP) will be 70,358 points under the new system. I'll be be doing it for for 35,000 points next month! :blink:

Rail Freak said:

$2135 for a roomette (ABQ-DEN-ELP-CHI-WAS-STP) will be 70,358 points under the new system. I'll be be doing it for for 35,000 points next month! :blink:

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Yep, most of us away from the only part of the country that counts, the NEC, face the same draconian devaluation of our points!

As the Late and Great Janis Joplin sang: ""..Better get it while you can!"

willem said:

In particular, I understand that some people have redeemed travel from Texas to Columbus, WI, via the Coast Starlight. That got quashed with the circle trip rule, even though it was and is the only routing that avoids an overnight stay off the train. Since the circle trip rule put an end to it, I wonder why someone went to the bother of removing it from the listed routes.

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Perhaps because some agents still book circle trips. I just finished a two-zone award Kansas City-LA-Portland-Minot which, according to the Rules as Written, is not allowed.

Yep, there's still a few that are bookable. I just cancelled an AUS-SPI-GBB-LAX AGR Award trip.

Also MIA-NYP-CHI-ELP, AUS-STL-KCY-LAX-SEA and AUS-SPI-GBB-EMY-SEA was bookable last month as 2 Zone Awards.

Devil's Advocate said:

willem said:

I have the impression that Amtrak has actively removed some of the longer published routes that used to be available. There were connections from Empire Builder cities to Sunset Limited cities earlier this year, and I have seen comments regarding connections from Sunset Limited cities to Empire Builder cities. In particular, I understand that some people have redeemed travel from Texas to Columbus, WI, via the Coast Starlight. That got quashed with the circle trip rule, even though it was and is the only routing that avoids an overnight stay off the train. Since the circle trip rule put an end to it, I wonder why someone went to the bother of removing it from the listed routes.

Click to expand...

That is my understanding as well. If you look many if not most of the formerly available connections are for longer trips and apparently that's not something AGR wants to offer anymore. Or at least doesn't want to offer until the long distance points requirements skyrocket in January.

Click to expand...

This is my experience as well. When trying to research what will likely be my final very long distance AGR trip, several formerly published routes that I've looked at in the past are no longer offered. I get the crazy "no train service" message even though there obviously is train service.

jimhudson said:

Yep, there's still a few that are bookable. I just cancelled an AUS-SPI-GBB-LAX AGR Award trip.

Also MIA-NYP-CHI-ELP, AUS-STL-KCY-LAX-SEA and AUS-SPI-GBB-EMY-SEA was bookable last month as 2 Zone Awards.

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None of those are circle trips though. While long, none of them cross out of a zone and then back into it.

Ryan said:

jimhudson said:

Yep, there's still a few that are bookable. I just cancelled an AUS-SPI-GBB-LAX AGR Award trip.

Also MIA-NYP-CHI-ELP, AUS-STL-KCY-LAX-SEA and AUS-SPI-GBB-EMY-SEA was bookable last month as 2 Zone Awards.

Click to expand...

None of those are circle trips though. While long, none of them cross out of a zone and then back into it.

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You are correct Sir, they are Long but not "Circle" trips. Missed that aspect.

However the MIA- ELP 2_Zone trip is now only bookable MIA-WAS(#98)-CHI-(#29)ELP(#421) not via NYP and #49 to CHI.

Ispolkom's trip truely was a Circle trip and we won't see it's like again!

As was said, it looks like alot of the "Long" trips are disappearing from our screens and are only bookable via Multi-City!

jimhudson said:

However the MIA- ELP 2_Zone trip is now only bookable MIA-WAS(#98)-CHI-(#29)ELP(#421) not via NYP and #49 to CHI.

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More devaluation.

I wonder if some or many or all of these recently deleted itineraries will be restored once the new redemption rules become effective. It seems like Amtrak should welcome people who want long trips and encourage people to take different routes, if only by letting the routes appear as possibilities.

It appears that Amtrak is not interested in encouraging travel on its long distance network, especially with the lack of bonus points for sleeper travel.

Yet the same system sends me almost to Chicago, if I want to go to Texas, puts me on a bus and then onto the Texas Flyer, instead of a shorter route through SAC?

I had a friend tell me, she once tried to book a trip and it sent her halfway across the country for a connection, because of the dates she requested.

Let me put it another way. The system isn't very smart and if you say, you want Thursday at 11AM and the train runs on Wed and Friday or operates at 10:55AM, it will say, nothing available.

It's just a bad booking system.