Amtrak Derailment Philadelphia (5/12/2015)

Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
The Wall Street Journal is reporting that two sources "with knowledge of the investigation" have confirmed that the train entered the curve at over 100mph -twice the permissible speed. It was also reported that a morning Amtrak management conference call stated that excessive speed was a factor in the crash. If that is true, the next question is why.
 
Certainly not an admission of guilt, but, on the surface, it looks bad.
It doesn't look bad, it looks like the responsible thing to do.
I disagree...it LOOKS bad. Yes, it's the responsible thing to do, but the general uninformed public will make assumptions.
Too bad. Let the idiots assume things. It's still never, ever, ever a good idea to talk without representation, and in some professions, you aren't even allowed to until you have representation.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
If anyone's looking for interesting spotting, a US DOT FRA car just passed on its way south. It passed South Norwalk CT around 2:20 pm, coming from the Danbury spur. It looks like one of the Amtrak Metroliner cab cars.

It had a New Haven loco on the front and MTA one in the back, nothing else in the consist. Not sure if it's going to link up with anything else heading to PA or continue on by itself.
 
Certainly not an admission of guilt, but, on the surface, it looks bad.
It doesn't look bad, it looks like the responsible thing to do.
I disagree...it LOOKS bad. Yes, it's the responsible thing to do, but the general uninformed public will make assumptions.
Too bad. Let the idiots assume things. It's still never, ever, ever a good idea to talk without representation, and in some professions, you aren't even allowed to until you have representation.
Yes, indeed, it's too bad. But it's the truth. People will assume guilt when this is what happens....
 
I read on TrainOrders that speed control was only for westbound trains not eastbound trains on that curve. The cost to add speed control for eastbound trains would've been minimal to none. I'm assuming this is coming from someone who works on the line.

I did read an article that said the NTSB confirmed not PTC for that curve.
If this is confirmed, it adds to the evidence that PTC (ACSES) should have been mandated long ago. I don't think the Class Is are going to get their desired postponement of the PTC mandate (thank goodness).
 
Not looking good for Amtrak or the engineer; he's refusing to speak with authorities -- http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ebc621a9cd1b4abd9f2bf2b50fa12d05/latest-amtrak-crash-ntsb-crew-heads-derailment
I thought this is exactly what they are trained to do. Even elsewhere in the industry we are always instructed not to talk to anyone in the absence of counsel. So in normal course of things I would expect them to not talk to "authorities" without having properly trained counsel present.

Incidentally there are other reports that indicate that both the Engineer and the Conductor have spoken to NTSB in the presence of counsel. Maybe it is just a case of the poor chaps at Philadelphia Police being a bit miffed that they refused to talk to their little investigation in the absence of counsel and want to get a bit of mileage out of it. ;)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The AP came up with 107mph using maths from the surveillance footage posted earlier. They noted that the playback in the footage is slightly slower then real-time.

peter
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Bieng a former reporter, I am LIVID at the reporting going on right now on the Fox News web site. Here's a sample of the headlines...

  • "Is America's national railroad a disaster waiting to happen?"
  • "Amtrak's history checkered by crashes, warnings"
  • "questions mount over concerns that have dogged the service for years -- from its contentious relationship with the federal government and its annual plea for funding to its history of deadly accidents."
What a load of steaming BS....
My sentiments exactly. Maybe it has been fixed but the article also said that 2 people on board the CONO that hit the flatbed pickup truck were killed. To use this tragedy to flog Amtrak is pitiful.
Eh, if it bleeds, it leads. If you can gin up fake outrage, it gets viewers. (FOX seems especially big with the "let's try to make people outraged" stories/way of reporting them. Lately CNN seems to be Plane Crash Central. I've become very cynical about the news. I generally prefer to read it on the Internet but anymore, many of the big sites make you watch their video.

Thoughts and prayers for the families of those who lost people or who are injured. That's what's mainly important here. Blame can be figured out later on.
 
Certainly not an admission of guilt, but, on the surface, it looks bad.
It doesn't look bad, it looks like the responsible thing to do.
I disagree...it LOOKS bad. Yes, it's the responsible thing to do, but the general uninformed public will make assumptions.
Too bad. Let the idiots assume things. It's still never, ever, ever a good idea to talk without representation, and in some professions, you aren't even allowed to until you have representation.
Human brains are terrible at remembering objective information about a traumatic event, especially when being honest has the potential to impact them negatively, and the longer they wait to discuss the specifics the hazier and blurrier their recollection will become. As they wait to talk their memory will continue to morph and deteriorate until it bears little resemblance to what the same person would have said immediately afterward. While I can sympathize with the engineer's predicament that doesn't change my view that resolving the cause of this event in a timely and accurate fashion is more important than protecting the future employment of the operators. The longer they wait to talk the less helpful their testimony will become.
 
This CNN article states that this was Amtrak's 9th derailment this year? Did I miss some of them? A quick wikipedia search reveals only the Halifax, NC derailment where an idiot truck driver got in the way. Amtrak would be running out of equipment if there were that many wrecks.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/13/us/philadelphia-amtrak-train-derailment/index.html
There's lots of little ones that hardly anyone hears about. The Cardinal derailed on the NEC here in Odenton earlier this year when a wheel broke. All cars remained upright and nobody was injured, the track was OOS for about a week to get things cleared up.

The AP came up with 107mph using maths from the surveillance footage posted earlier. They noted that the playback in the footage is slightly slower then real-time.

peter
I think that's a little high, if I have the train length right (I think so), then it would take a time of 4 seconds. Looking at the timer in the corner (avoiding any issues with playback speed) I make out closer to 5. Maybe 4.5, which would put it around 100. Still, in the ballpark, and roughly twice as fast as it should have been going.
 
This CNN article states that this was Amtrak's 9th derailment this year? Did I miss some of them? A quick wikipedia search reveals only the Halifax, NC derailment where an idiot truck driver got in the way. Amtrak would be running out of equipment if there were that many wrecks.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/13/us/philadelphia-amtrak-train-derailment/index.html
But...FOX NEWS!

As far as infrastructure goes, iirc, there was a trillion dollars of shovel-ready projects spent about 6 years ago.

How'd that work out?
 
As far as infrastructure goes, iirc, there was a trillion dollars of shovel-ready projects spent about 6 years ago.

How'd that work out?
Most of them are under construction as we speak. (There were some paperwork delays, so they weren't all quite shovel-ready.) Some are already done and giving benefits (Englewood Flyover.)
 
This CNN article states that this was Amtrak's 9th derailment this year? Did I miss some of them? A quick wikipedia search reveals only the Halifax, NC derailment where an idiot truck driver got in the way. Amtrak would be running out of equipment if there were that many wrecks.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/13/us/philadelphia-amtrak-train-derailment/index.html
There's lots of little ones that hardly anyone hears about. The Cardinal derailed on the NEC here in Odenton earlier this year when a wheel broke. All cars remained upright and nobody was injured, the track was OOS for about a week to get things cleared up.

The AP came up with 107mph using maths from the surveillance footage posted earlier. They noted that the playback in the footage is slightly slower then real-time.

peter
I think that's a little high, if I have the train length right (I think so), then it would take a time of 4 seconds. Looking at the timer in the corner (avoiding any issues with playback speed) I make out closer to 5. Maybe 4.5, which would put it around 100. Still, in the ballpark, and roughly twice as fast as it should have been going.
Here is what little information they give on their findings:

Associated Press said:
An analysis by The Associated Press of surveillance video just before the deadly crash of an Amtrak train in Philadelphia indicates it was traveling about 107 miles per hour as it approached a curve where the speed limit was 50 miles per hour.

The video shows the train — which was roughly 662 feet long — passes the camera in just over five seconds. But AP found that the surveillance video plays back slightly slower than in real time.

So, adjusting for the slower playback puts the train's estimated speed at 107 miles per hour. The surveillance camera was located at a site just before the bend in the tracks.

The crash killed seven people and injured more than 200.
peter
 
Last edited by a moderator:
This CNN article states that this was Amtrak's 9th derailment this year? Did I miss some of them? A quick wikipedia search reveals only the Halifax, NC derailment where an idiot truck driver got in the way. Amtrak would be running out of equipment if there were that many wrecks.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/13/us/philadelphia-amtrak-train-derailment/index.html
But...FOX NEWS!

As far as infrastructure goes, iirc, there was a trillion dollars of shovel-ready projects spent about 6 years ago.

How'd that work out?
What trillion dollars of infrastructure spending? Care to share a link or source for that claim?
 
The maximum permissible speed at any location between 30th Street Station and the Frankford Junction curve (accident scene) is 80mph. Even for tangent running prior to the curve, the train was in excess of 20mph overspeed.
 
So tech travel uber enthusiast

Jason Rabinowitz posted this screen grab on his Twitter home @airlineflyer

from our familiar Amtrak's Track A Train app.

Jason notes, "Last night, I saved the final tracker data from #Amtrak train 188 before it cleared. Last data showed speed of 106mph."

Well done Jason.

Amtrak Philly No. 188 TrainTracker grab.jpg
 
Back
Top