All-sleeper consist?

Or do this for sleeper cars, Ticket include coach ticket by day, Pod by night.

Aloha

RyanS said:

Yeah, I'm wildly disinterested in getting packed into a car like that

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Its not as bad as it looks Ryan, I've ridden in Slumber Coaches and Sections ( including on VIA and various RRs pre- Amtrak) and Couchettes on foreign trains and it beats being in a packed Coach all night!

If we're going to do pods you might as well try Cathay Pacific's international first class pod. Now that would be a very welcome update indeed. I wonder if you could fit enough of them in a Superliner coach car to make the upgrade economical over the long run.

Wish my pockets were deep enough for a Cathay Pacific international first class pod: US$9346 from LAX to Hong Kong: http://www.kayak.com/flights/LAX-HKG/2015-03-17/first Almost 16 hours on an airplane! Aaaargh!!! It is, however, only about US$600 per hour.

Section sleepers?

Sounds like we're progressing right into the 1940's, doesn't it?

FormerOBS said:

Section sleepers?

Sounds like we're progressing right into the 1940's, doesn't it?

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That's correct Tom, but when I rode in a Lower on the Canadian it was more comfortable than the Cabin for 1, and Cost Half as Much with the same First Class Amenities!

I also like Slumber Coaches for overnight trips, but for the two nighters a Room is better when you can get a low bucket fare!

I don't understand this thread.

Issues surrounding lack of equipment aside, why would an all-sleeper train be better than a mixed sleeper-coach train? Why would two trains, one all-coach and one all-sleeper, be better than two mixed trains?

As much as I would like an all sleeping car train like the Broadway Limited I think the time for that has past. Now the slumbercoach design I think could be brought back fairly effectively. Considering on my trains (the silvers) there is significant sleeping car traffic from the midpoints of the route. I'd say a slumbercoach would be better for that market and the space would turn over having more then one occupant it's whole trip. Thus probably making more money then it takes in expenses. And instead of new cars they could just use the current viewliners without the services. So no meals(saves on my normal choice of menu items 50 a day). Maybe couple them to the coaches and just have the coach attendant let passengers on.

RyanS said:

Yeah, I'm wildly disinterested in getting packed into a car like that

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You can always go with the higher priced rooms. No one is holding a gun to your head to ride accommodation that you don't like. but is that a good enough reason to deny such to others that don't mind?

The ONLY problem that I see with the IR model in the US is that India uses broad gauge and the coaches are wider. You'll lose almost 20% capacity immediately going with 2x2 seating vs 3x2.

VentureForth said:

The ONLY problem that I see with the IR model in the US is that India uses broad gauge and the coaches are wider. You'll lose almost 20% capacity immediately going with 2x2 seating vs 3x2.

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Generally India uses UIC loading gauge for long distance trains. So no, the coaches are not really any wider. In 3x2 seating in India, the seats are narrower than in the 2x2 seating in the US. But that is not a problem because even I am considered to be fat in India. Most Indians are of smaller stature and fit pretty nicely in the seats. The seat pitch is also less than on Amtrak. They are more like on commuter trains.

Specifically the width of Indian LD trains at the widest point have an external width of 3250mm (a shade over 10' 8") from an IR publication of the 'Schedule of Moving Dimensions' (1971). Internal width of the latest LHB cars is 3120mm (~ 10' 3").

So the alleged ONLY problem really does not exist, at least in the form stated.

For EMU suburban trains the width is somewhere near 12 feet or so. That is why they cannot be used outside the suburban zones. For LD EMUs there are different sets and they are called MEMUs (Mainline EMUs)

Seaboard 92:

In your plan, who makes the beds & remakes them for the next passenger?

Tom

FormerOBS said:

Seaboard 92:

In your plan, who makes the beds & remakes them for the next passenger?

Tom

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I am not necessarily suggesting that this be done, but, in airline Business Class no one makes anyone's bed. You just get a sealed package with a blanket and a pillow and you make use of it as you see fit. No reason that same could not be done on a really inexpensive lie flat accommodation on trains too.

Hard for me to wrap my head around that. That's probably the way they do it in prison, too (Never been there, so I'm not sure).

FormerOBS said:

Hard for me to wrap my head around that. That's probably the way they do it in prison, too (Never been there, so I'm not sure).

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Yeah, well. That's the way they do it on loooong flights with fares that Amtrak can only dream of for even their full service Sleepers. Of course then there is First Class with even higher fares, where you just get more bedding, and in some cases you even get help in setting things up.
Personally, given how easy it is to set up those powered seats in whatever mode I want, I really don't mind that I don't have to call someone, and wait for their arrival before I can get set up to whatever setup I want. It is indeed the case that if someone cannot figure things out someone will come and help them set up. But from what I see, most seem to prefer to set things up for themselves.

What is in the package? Would the $8 "comfort pack" with the blanket and blow up pillow be sufficient? What if someone throws up? Who cleans up the bedding afterwards, or do the pax keep them?

Some of this is hyperbole - I would expect that we can muster up a bit of civilization in the US to make this not a big problem.

It is not unusual, specially on planes that have been through significant turbulence, for some people to soil their seats. Usually unless the damage is extensive, they are able to change out the cushions and carry on. Sometimes, the damage is more extensive and in those cases the seat would be taken out of service. This is not peculiar to planes. I have had my roomette reassigned on Amtrak because someone threw up in the roomette in which I was originally booked.

The bedding on planes is usually single use. I.e. after it is taken out of its sealed package and used, it goes back into the laundry hamper to be washed and processed before it is re-sealed. So no the pax don't keep them in any case.

Took a 2nd class sleeper, open berths, from Bangkok to Butterworth (Malaysia) in 2012. Made friends with everyone, spoke English, French and little Thai and Vietnamese (don't know Malay) and got a very comfortable ride for very little money and got waited on by the beer and food lady. Only problem was lugging the suitcases off at Pedang Besar for customs inspection by both countries. Anyway, I'd give it shot here. Build or convert a few cars, put them on #3/#4 and see what happens. Actually beats 1st class for fun, even for an old guy like me.

Yeah. The customs and immigration off the train at Padang Besar is a royal pain.

Slumbercoaches typically had both single rooms and double rooms. All of the beds ran "lengthwise" in the car, with rooms on both sides of a center aisle for both single and double rooms. The single rooms on the B&O's slumbercoaches were "duplexed", with one room at floor level and adjacent rooms on either side two steps up to entry. In effect, then, the feet of people sleeping in the "upper" single rooms extended over the head of the person in the "lower" single room.

The conditions were definitely tight, not unlike those ultra-tiny hotel rooms that still sell today in some Asian countries.

The Thai / Malaysian border crossing was a very much more relaxing experience back in 1983...

However, back to the future... Just imagine how great it would be if Amtrak had trains that ran from major city to major city, during the daytime. Us tourists could enjoy the scenery, get off the train and sightsee, overnight hotel, and board the next mornings onward train. So normal, so convenient...

Ed

My proposal was that the passengers are provided with instructions on how to make the bed. I always have made mine since age thirteen. So it isn't too hard. And that was a long time. Go to the airplane style blankets like amtrak is testing. And then the ca from the next car replaces it for the next passenger if a room gets used twoce

Bierboy said:

Not exclusively; they had both one-person and two-person compartments. I traveled on the NP North Coast Limited back in the 60s and our family of four fit in two slumbercoaches....

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I was a little unclear in my post. The double slumbercoach rooms are effectively the same as even a modern-day roomette in a Viewliner or Superliner. (If you look at a room diagram, the layout is exactly the same and I'll bet the overall dimensions are too, more or less.) Roomettes separately existed on some trains in the pre-Amtrak era, but I don't recall Amtrak offering a "double slumbercoach" accommodation, they just lumped them in with other roomettes both for revenue reasons and to avoid confusion.

So I think what people mean when talk of bringing back the slumbercoach comes up is the single rooms in an efficient split-level arrangement. There's no need to bring back the single-level double rooms, because Amtrak already has them; they're just called roomettes. I understand that some people would like for there to be a class of service that's cheaper and without meals, but I don't think Amtrak would be able to price a roomette/double slumbercoach low enough for that to be attractive relative to a roomette with meals included.

Anyway I realize this discussion has gone in different directions, but I just wanted to clarify that point.

My "vision" has been more along the lines of what jis was showing with the India rail examples. Seats that layout into berths at night in the same amount of space. No curtains, no bulkheads, no privacy, no meals, no snoring!