Capitol Limited & Lake Shore Limited Delays Summer/Fall 2014

Why not depart the LSL in South Bend, cab over to the South Shore Line, and take a commuter train into CHI??

This is for Benale, who's apparently looking to soak up some AGR points by doing a same-day trip between Martinsburg and Rockville:

As others have pointed out, that's a bit dicey given the CL's recent on-time (hah!) record. Chances are you'd get stuck with a long wait at Martinsburg for the DC-bound train. But remember that you probably have the option of MARC too. Maybe not ideal, as you describe your goals, but pretty good assurance against being stranded or having to cut your trip short in Harpers Ferry.

No MARC service to help out here.

This thread has quieted down now the CL and LSL have improved to just being late, not break connections late or really, really late. The westbound trains this morning did not lose much time on the NS segment. The eastbound CL #30 (10/19) got delayed the most with additional delays on the CSX segment.The results for the trains departing Oct. 19:

CL #29: departed WAS on-time, dep PGH 1 hour and 6 minutes late, arr CHI 1 hour and 40 minutes late.

LSL #49: departed NYP 17 minutes late, dep CLE 36 minutes late, arr CHI 51 minutes late

CL #30: departed CHI on-time, dep PGH 1 hour and 53 minutes late, arr WAS 2 hours and 38 minutes late.

LSL #48: departed CHI on-time, dep CLE 25 minutes late, arr NYP 14 minutes late (closest to on-time in over a month).

So what changed, both to cause the meltdown and to apparently fix it?

Michael061282 said:

So what changed, both to cause the meltdown and to apparently fix it?

Click to expand...

Read a few pages back in this thread. Bunch of reasons for the meltdown easing up: completion of Englewood Flyover and likely wrapping up of some track projects; temporary transfer of conductors and engineers to the line and getting them qualified to ease crew shortages; moving empty oil trains to another route; apparently clearing the traffic backlog to some extent; getting a letter from the Chairman of the Surface Transportation Board asking how NS plans to address the delays for the Amtrak trains which may have gotten the attention of NS management at the highest level.

But we don't know for sure if the extreme delays have truly been fixed or is this just a interlude before another round of 5, 6, 10 hour delays.

thanks for the summary.. i tried to read back a ways but after 20 some pages the eyes glossing over, or that could have just been my contacts.

Destination results for the October 20 departure CL and LSLs; all departed on time.

CL #29(10/20): arrived CHI 1 hour and 7 minutes late.

LSL #49(10/20): arrived CHI 2 hours and 41 minutes late.

CL #30(10/20): arrived WAS 2 hours late.

LSL #48(10/20): arrived NYP 2 hours and 55 minutes late. Lost 2.5 hours going from CHI to SOB at the start of the trip.

So, back to the old delay levels. Wasn't Englewood Flyover supposed to make the delays *better*? It seems like all the Amtrak timekeeping improvements expected from Englewood have been eaten up by other failures on the part of NS and/or CSX.

Yeah, back to 2-hr-ish delays from the 6 to 10 hour delays that NS had brought upon us. Looks like a little collective shaming by cohorts and the ARA and a prod from the STB did the trick.

NS still has to finish fixing Elkhart and CSX still needs to get its act together in NY State though.

At least with 2+ hour delays most connections can be made and trip planning is reasonable. Those much longer delays were ridiculous!

Today's 29 was only an hour late into Chicago. Rumor was that there was an Amtrak VP on board, though I did not meet him myself. On a sadder note, TSA pulled a couple random Hiawatha riders aside before boarding our connecting train.

neroden said:

So, back to the old delay levels. Wasn't Englewood Flyover supposed to make the delays *better*? It seems like all the Amtrak timekeeping improvements expected from Englewood have been eaten up by other failures on the part of NS and/or CSX.

Click to expand...

We don't know if the Englewood Flyover project is completely done yet. The Metra trains have been moved, but I saw a post on trainorders that the now unused Rock Island tracks were getting pulled up and that NS was going to remove the diamond crossing. Could be some delays from project wrap-up work. The NS service update also stated that track maintenance projects were scheduled to October 30, so perhaps the OTP will improve after the end of the month. Or not.

Anyway, might as well post the destination results for the October 21 departure CL and LSLs. All departed CHI/WAS/NYP on time. Better results than the day before.

CL #29(10/21): arrived CHI 58 minutes late.

LSL #49(10/21): arrived CHI 1 hour and 53 minutes late. (1:23 late arriving at CLE, made up time, then lost an hour between WTI and CHI).

CL #30(10/21): arrived WAS 2 hours and 34 minutes late. (Departed EKH 2;32 late)

LSL #48(10/21): arrived NYP 23 minutes late. (departed BYN 1:11 late, ALB 12 minutes late)

Hi,

New to the board. But wanted to ask a question to those knowledgeable. AMTRAK sent out a message on the 20th of October that to help with the delays of the CL, it has now taken the Sightseeing/Lounge car out of the train and the Diner will become the Diner and the Lounge combined.

The end date for this move, that supposedly speeds up service, is the 20th of November.

My question as a future passenger on this train who was looking forward to the SSL car, how much does this dampen the trip and how crowded will the new dining car/lounge car become?

I feel this is not what I bought my fare for, and seems unnecessary. Further, If AMTRAK finds that one engine and 4 car trains save fuel, is there a risk they may permanently make the change?

HF

HockeyFan1972 said:

Hi,

New to the board. But wanted to ask a question to those knowledgeable. AMTRAK sent out a message on the 20th of October that to help with the delays of the CL, it has now taken the Sightseeing/Lounge car out of the train and the Diner will become the Diner and the Lounge combined.

The end date for this move, that supposedly speeds up service, is the 20th of November.

My question as a future passenger on this train who was looking forward to the SSL car, how much does this dampen the trip and how crowded will the new dining car/lounge car become?

I feel this is not what I bought my fare for, and seems unnecessary. Further, If AMTRAK finds that one engine and 4 car trains save fuel, is there a risk they may permanently make the change?

HF

Click to expand...

There will be but a fraction of Lounging space available, especially if the Conductors do not relocate to their space in the Transdorm (assuming there is one in consist). Moreover the serving area for the Cafe is tiny compared to the Lower Level of the SSL. If the train is crowded, it will be a nightmare.

Hopefully this is just temporary since the scenery between Pittsburgh and Washington is worth a Sightseer Lounge!

The CCCs are one of Amtrak's poorer ideas, being a hybrid Diner and Lounge and not really full filling either function adequately. Crews and most LD riders dislike them, especially when substituted for a PPC or SSL!!

They are a Superliner version of the Diner- Lite that the Cardinal is stuck with!

OlympianHiawatha said:

HockeyFan1972 said:

Hi,

New to the board. But wanted to ask a question to those knowledgeable. AMTRAK sent out a message on the 20th of October that to help with the delays of the CL, it has now taken the Sightseeing/Lounge car out of the train and the Diner will become the Diner and the Lounge combined.

The end date for this move, that supposedly speeds up service, is the 20th of November.

My question as a future passenger on this train who was looking forward to the SSL car, how much does this dampen the trip and how crowded will the new dining car/lounge car become?

I feel this is not what I bought my fare for, and seems unnecessary. Further, If AMTRAK finds that one engine and 4 car trains save fuel, is there a risk they may permanently make the change?

HF

Click to expand...

There will be but a fraction of Lounging space available, especially if the Conductors do not relocate to their space in the Transdorm (assuming there is one in consist). Moreover the serving area for the Cafe is tiny compared to the Lower Level of the SSL. If the train is crowded, it will be a nightmare.

Click to expand...

I think the point people are missing here is that in addition to cutting lounge space, Amtrak is also cutting revenue cars; according to a poster on trainorders (http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,3554276), it's running with two sleepers and two coaches. Earlier in the month it was photographed (http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=502565&nseq=27) with eight cars, presumably three sleepers, a diner, SSL, and three coaches. So it's not like they're just cutting dining/lounge space, the whole train is getting downsized. Presumably they've figured that there is small enough demand that they can run the single CCC.

Also, according to the trainorders thread, the on board crew is in one of the sleepers.

Thanks,

Figured as much. Hit up Amtrak on my concerns, and got the party line answer. "It was a difficult decision, but a necessary one at this time." Just hope they honor their word and reinstate the SSL NLT Nov 20th.

If they had sufficient rolling stock, this wouldn't be a problem.

But nobody's seen fit to fund them at a level to have the rolling stock available.

GUEST PETE M3: Question since you rode it today:

If the SSL had the bar for cocktails and social talk with new friends found on train, does the CCC compare to that? From your description this seems to be a big bust.

Amtrak saying it will help with on time efficiency, but maybe with the time of year, slow down of the tracks (lateness) and such, they just pulled the SSL until the date they said. Which so happens to be the week before Thanksgiving and the holiday season (AKA more travelers?)

I got an alert from Amtrak that the CL was experiencing wicked delays, and if you go to the Amtrak site to purchase a ticket, the CL is the cheapest fare between CHI and WAS, BUT there is a big warning about delays on the tracks of 4 hours plus before you purchase.

I have been on trains before, though not many. Mostly overseas. I admit I have not been on an Amtrak train for over 30 years. BUT have a trip scheduled with the lady and got a roomette on the CL#30 and a full room on the CL#29. But was actually looking forward to the lounge to sightsee and socialize/have a cocktail. This is really dampening my mood.

HOckeyFan1972, have you read this whole thread? If not, maybe you should so you can understand the problems the CL (29/30) and the LSL (48/49) have been having over the last month or so and why Amtrak is having to make these changes. We don't necessarily like the changes either, but we are aware of the circumstances.

Ms AmtrakBlue,

Yes I have read the thread, the whole thread. Actually it is why i was directed to this thread when i put in to GOOGLE "Capitol Limited train delays."

I understand that's the answer Amtrak is giving. By nixing one car it is supposed to help improve the timeliness of the trains and on time AR and DP. I was interested in the reason for the delays and looking to see if i needed to change my upcoming trip to just go from Chicago to Washington DC then on to Philly instead of Chicago to Pittsburg, then Philly if there was a real risk of missing my connection in Pittsburg. This thread, plus the Amtrak representative i spoke with on the phone today (Who was very nice and helpful) helped to clear up any concerns i may have.

Now that we are past that, i also discovered today doing my looking around that one of the biggest draws i was looking forward to, and what was pitched to me by my Aunt who raved about it, was the SSL and the ability to look out, relax, and when open, have a cocktail. So you now know my disappointment that i spent some of my hard earned money on a trip for my wife and i which may or may not include a SSL.

I know. Amtrak does not like the changes. I get it. Been told that on three different media outlets i have looked int to/used today. But as a customer, i am merely looking in to how much this dampens the trip and if i am going to decide to refund my trip and find another way to get there.

Personally i know squat about trains and what you probably deal with. BUT I just cant seem to wrap my head around why ONE car makes all the difference.

Have read about "Turn Around Times" and it takes a long time to clean the SSL??? So maybe that's it? But again im merely inquiring to find out information.

HF

HockeyFan1972 said:

GUEST PETE M3: Question since you rode it today:

If the SSL had the bar for cocktails and social talk with new friends found on train, does the CCC compare to that? From your description this seems to be a big bust.

Amtrak saying it will help with on time efficiency, but maybe with the time of year, slow down of the tracks (lateness) and such, they just pulled the SSL until the date they said. Which so happens to be the week before Thanksgiving and the holiday season (AKA more travelers?)

I got an alert from Amtrak that the CL was experiencing wicked delays, and if you go to the Amtrak site to purchase a ticket, the CL is the cheapest fare between CHI and WAS, BUT there is a big warning about delays on the tracks of 4 hours plus before you purchase.

I have been on trains before, though not many. Mostly overseas. I admit I have not been on an Amtrak train for over 30 years. BUT have a trip scheduled with the lady and got a roomette on the CL#30 and a full room on the CL#29. But was actually looking forward to the lounge to sightsee and socialize/have a cocktail. This is really dampening my mood.

Click to expand...

Does the small (tiny, even?) lounge area in a CCC somehow equate to the entire car-length area of tables and outward-facing seats of an SSL? Not even close, and the windows for viewing the passing landscape are smaller as well. On a plus note, because of the smaller-than-expected patronage in the dining section of the CCC, most people seemed to linger with their seat-mates for after-dinner conversation (it got sort of loud after a while). I even observed some of that at breakfast. If I remember correctly, even after the 7 o'clock dinner seating, there were still a couple of tables unused. As a result, the staff didn't need to encourage people to eat and leave.

Hockey Fan,

Because of the timekeeping problems, Amtrak needed to come up with an entire new consist, so the Capitol Limited leaving Chicago in the evening doesn't have to wait for the Capitol Limited due in that morning to arrive (usually the equipment that arrives in Chicago in the morning turns around and leaves that evening, but that can't happen if the train is more than about 8 or 9 hours late).

Unfortunately, there aren't enough cars in the system to do that, so the consist of the train had to be shortened so that 4 identical transits could be used.

I'd encourage you to take your trip - the loss of the SSL, especially in winter when a large part of the trip is in the dark sucks, but it isn't the end of the world.