Increased Prices Have Shut Me Down, Again.

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Devil's Advocate said:
AlanB said:
It's not a matter of being indifferent. It's a matter of me-too-ism. If they let him sit there, then someone who is going all the way will want the same privilege. And they won't want to hear the explanation that he gets to sit there because he gets off before the group gets on and they don't. All they'll see is him getting special privileges.
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You sound like you have some examples of when previously calm customers saw one person move to another seat and immediately went crazy with chair envy and turned the train into a moving mosh pit. Should be interesting to hear about it.
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No, I know human nature. While some as I stated would accept the explanation when provided, invariably there will be some who will not accept it and while perhaps not creating a mosh pit, will nonetheless put up a stink if they think that it will get them what they want.

I once watched a man walk of out the JCPenny store where I worked many years ago in his stocking feet because he backed himself into a corner and decided that getting his money back was more important than anything else. But he & his wife tried every trick in the book, including yelling and yelling at a manager that I was calling on the phone to come down to help.
 
AlanB said:
Devil's Advocate said:
AlanB said:
It's not a matter of being indifferent. It's a matter of me-too-ism. If they let him sit there, then someone who is going all the way will want the same privilege. And they won't want to hear the explanation that he gets to sit there because he gets off before the group gets on and they don't. All they'll see is him getting special privileges.
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You sound like you have some examples of when previously calm customers saw one person move to another seat and immediately went crazy with chair envy and turned the train into a moving mosh pit. Should be interesting to hear about it.
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No, I know human nature. While some as I stated would accept the explanation when provided, invariably there will be some who will not accept it and while perhaps not creating a mosh pit, will nonetheless put up a stink if they think that it will get them what they want.

I once watched a man walk of out the JCPenny store where I worked many years ago in his stocking feet because he backed himself into a corner and decided that getting his money back was more important than anything else. But he & his wife tried every trick in the book, including yelling and yelling at a manager that I was calling on the phone to come down to help.
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Not to hijack but this is train related, In 1973 I once walked into a Sears store with a man (an Amtrak Manager and my boss) in his stocking feet. He was literally knocked out of his shoes when the Amtrak TurboTrain we were on hit a freight train near Montreal. \We were treated and released from the Hospital and returned to our rooms except that the Manager only had brought one pair of shoes and they were in the wrecked, burnt train. Interesting enough he sat down in the shoe section of the store in his suit and put his feet in one of the rests and the salesman asked him "if he could interest him in buying a pair of shoes today".
 
That...almost sounds worthy of notalwaysright.com. I'll give the salesman some credit for handling that well.
 
Devil's Advocate said:
Ryan said:
Devil's Advocate said:
Unless I'm missing something if you're a group and want to be seated together isn't in incumbent upon you to book your trip as a group? If you're a group in the reservation system then it should be easy enough to check if anyone will need to be bothered in the middle of the night.
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I wasn't aware that Amtrak would give my family of 4 a group rate.
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Where did I refer to a discounted group rate? Do you really go out of your way to create separate tickets for each individual member of your family just for the heck of it? I must admit I didn't realize that a family which expects to sit together would go through that much trouble just to needlessly complicate matters for everyone else. No wonder the conductors are so grouchy about it.
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Of course I book all of the tickets at the same time - does the manifest just list names, or is there something that indicates the tickets were purchased together? Not all families share the same last name, you know...

Devil's Advocate said:
Ryan said:
If I'm unhappy with my compartment and want to move nobody seems to mind looking into it, even to the point of asking folks in the middle of the night to take a room they were not originally booked in
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When has this ever happened?
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I have requested a change of rooms for my benefit and had my room changed for the benefit of others on the Sunset Limited and Texas Eagle. I didn't record specific dates, times, and names because I didn't realize it would be a controversial claim. I just assumed it was SOP. So long as it was the same size on the same floor I had originally selected I didn't really care which room I got unless something was broken or disgusting.
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You made it sound like people have been asked to move out of the room that they were originally booked in. Obviously if there's an empty room, and you're asking to move into it, it isn't any big deal regardless of the time of day. But for the third time, that's because rooms are assigned before boarding. Coach seats aren't, so obviously they can't be handled the same way.
 
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abcnews said:
The airlines do the same thing - they charge much, much higher fares at peak times. Same with hotels - try getting a room in New Orleans when the Super Bowl or Mardi Gras is happening. It's really being smart - and the proper way to run a business.
If you purchased an oceanfront beach cottage as an investment for retirement, and you rented it out - would you charge as much as you could get? Or just have a simple low flat rate and loose money on your investment?

Is that really being greedy?
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My faith and ethics guides me to treat people fairly, honestly and with dignity,kindness and compassion. In my business when my products are very difficult to find I still charge the same amount as always. I cannot accept that extracting money from people who are at a disadvanatge is the right thing to do. As long as I can make some profit to stay in business then I am satisfied. Yes high bucket/ low bucket is the Amtrak system and used by all transportation companies and hotels so only travelers can decide if it is right. However, if you look at the condition that the world is in today, isn't it all caused by greed?
 
minister said:
. I cannot accept that extracting money from people who are at a disadvanatge is the right thing to do.
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They're not at a disadvantage. The product's value increased because of demand. That's the very foundation of economies. I'd wager its not even greed. Its just being smart. Greed would be all high buckets all the time then hoarding the money. Charging more when customers are willing to pay more, then using that money to improve your business is wise.
 
Alexandria Nick said:
minister said:
. I cannot accept that extracting money from people who are at a disadvanatge is the right thing to do.
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They're not at a disadvantage. The product's value increased because of demand. That's the very foundation of economies. I'd wager its not even greed. Its just being smart. Greed would be all high buckets all the time then hoarding the money. Charging more when customers are willing to pay more, then using that money to improve your business is wise.
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Amtrak requires a federal subsidy to operate -- it cannot operate only on its revenue; it does not make a profit (I don't have a problem with that). There are many other threads that quibble about if it is too much or too little, that is not the point here. What is the point is that Amtrak has a responsibility to capture as much revenue as it can because the American taxpayer has some skin in the game.

We don't pay the full cost of what it costs to move us from point A to point B, even with higher fares at certain times. We are getting a value with our ticket purchase. It is the height of greed to demand that the price of those tickets even be lower. It is like getting used to receiving half-off for a dinner entre at a restaurant and then being upset that on Friday or Saturday nights when the place is packed that you may only get 25 percent off.

If Amtrak wasn't capturing max revenue on high volume days and then asked for more subsidy from the American people, then that would be greedy.
 
minister said:
abcnews said:
The airlines do the same thing - they charge much, much higher fares at peak times. Same with hotels - try getting a room in New Orleans when the Super Bowl or Mardi Gras is happening. It's really being smart - and the proper way to run a business.
If you purchased an oceanfront beach cottage as an investment for retirement, and you rented it out - would you charge as much as you could get? Or just have a simple low flat rate and loose money on your investment?

Is that really being greedy?
Click to expand...
My faith and ethics guides me to treat people fairly, honestly and with dignity,kindness and compassion. In my business when my products are very difficult to find I still charge the same amount as always. I cannot accept that extracting money from people who are at a disadvanatge is the right thing to do. As long as I can make some profit to stay in business then I am satisfied. Yes high bucket/ low bucket is the Amtrak system and used by all transportation companies and hotels so only travelers can decide if it is right. However, if you look at the condition that the world is in today, isn't it all caused by greed?
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Kind of off topic, but interestingly enough, there are some countries which prohibit such practices for ground transportation. So for example, in Poland, you can tell how much you will pay by the amount of miles - or rather, kilometers - you will ride, and that is regardless of route etc. The law also requires some people be given a 50% discount - that includes seniors, students and some other groups, some groups (disabled war veterans etc.) ride for free and that's required by law. Just thought I'd throw it out there as an interesting thing related to this topic, of course not arguing that it's right or wrong ;)
 
dlagrua said:
Amtrak Coach- usually less expensive than flyingAmtrak Bedroom or Roomette- usually more expensive than flying coach but can equal first class fares.

If you want to see what crowded is, try riding the Autotrain during the time when snowbirds migrate North in spring or South in fall. The train is an absolute madhouse and fares bedrooms and roomettes all sell at a premium sky high bucket even months out. Amtrak knows when peak demand is and they gouge the crap out of you as much as they can. The outfit is very greedy if you ask me. No different that those shysters that run the airlines BUT people are paying it, sometimes.
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The airlines are not making a lot of money, 1% average over that last 5 years as reported by the World Bank. Gouging does not come to mind at this level. Most of us know about Amtrak, subsidized by Congress and not even making back operating costs in total. They are just trying to maximized what they can from customers to get as close as possible to covering costs. Nothing immoral or illegal, just good business sense.
 
New here and have been reading while contemplating switching to rail from air for a long leisure trip.

Comparing similar start-end points, which would be FNO-RGH, I currently have a first class one-way ticket reserved on American Airlines for 569.00, booked in 'P' class, which is paid, non-refundable first, for travel in mid-August. FNO-WAS is currently 373.00 in coach on Amtrak, plus 51.00 on the Carolinian from WAS to RGH, so 424.00. Hence, coach on Amtrak is 145.00 less than first class on AA, and about 130.00 more than coach/economy on AA. I was able to find a pretty good deal on a bedroom for the SC (LAX-CHI) at 886.00 (roomette is 681.00), so, with my AAA discount, Amtrak is coming in at about 1112.00 one way, or 543.00 more than first class on AA, nearly double. The AA flights are all on mainline, so meals and alcohol are included.

I have vast experience on world airlines as a mileage runner but am looking to slow down a bit in my 50's and travel in a more leisurely fashion. Hopefully, there are ways to translate mileage running experience into train riding experience to make the process more affordable.

Looking locally, with FNO/FAT as comparison points, short distance train travel is vastly superior, price-wise, to flying puddle jumpers up and down the west coast. No doubt. I can sleep in a regular seat for one night; no different than sleeping in coach to Asia or Europe on a plane. The long distance train prices, though, hmm, feeling a bit shut down there, especially when there's two/three/four nights on the rails. Even dividing those bedroom prices by two, it's still pretty pricey. Guess I'll need to learn some more tricks.
 
camachinist said:
New here and have been reading while contemplating switching to rail from air for a long leisure trip.
Comparing similar start-end points, which would be FNO-RGH, I currently have a first class one-way ticket reserved on American Airlines for 569.00, booked in 'P' class, which is paid, non-refundable first, for travel in mid-August. FNO-WAS is currently 373.00 in coach on Amtrak, plus 51.00 on the Carolinian from WAS to RGH, so 424.00. Hence, coach on Amtrak is 145.00 less than first class on AA, and about 130.00 more than coach/economy on AA. I was able to find a pretty good deal on a bedroom for the SC (LAX-CHI) at 886.00 (roomette is 681.00), so, with my AAA discount, Amtrak is coming in at about 1112.00 one way, or 543.00 more than first class on AA, nearly double. The AA flights are all on mainline, so meals and alcohol are included.

I have vast experience on world airlines as a mileage runner but am looking to slow down a bit in my 50's and travel in a more leisurely fashion. Hopefully, there are ways to translate mileage running experience into train riding experience to make the process more affordable.

Looking locally, with FNO/FAT as comparison points, short distance train travel is vastly superior, price-wise, to flying puddle jumpers up and down the west coast. No doubt. I can sleep in a regular seat for one night; no different than sleeping in coach to Asia or Europe on a plane. The long distance train prices, though, hmm, feeling a bit shut down there, especially when there's two/three/four nights on the rails. Even dividing those bedroom prices by two, it's still pretty pricey. Guess I'll need to learn some more tricks.
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I rarely fly so have accumulated no mileage. But if you have air miles or points on some of the major credit cards, they can in many cases be converted to Amtrak Guest Rewards points... I see people posting about that very often in these threads. Perhaps one of the experienced ones will weigh in here....
 
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Sorcha said:
I understand. A few weeks ago, I checked round-trip tickets to Chicago next weekend. Total cost was $178 with our discounts. (It's usually around $80-90.) We're going to drive since it doesn't make sense to pay $178 for a five-hour round-trip.
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I have a mixed view, I was taking Amtrak from Chi to StL (5 Hour trip) and paying $20 extra for business class (last time I did this was Feb 2013); now you have to pay $62 extra for business class (free coffee, 1 juice, a newspaper, extra outlets, and leather seats). Reg coach is $26 one way. So for coach travelers its a bargain but not for business class $176 round trip.
 
Guest said:
NEC base fares have now risen (NYP PHL now $ 53)
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Meanwhile the "E" 25% off advance purchase rate from BOS - NYP remains $49. That is kind of crazy. I guess it just goes to market share or supply/demand.

It looks like low bucket acela remains at $109 BOS - NYP, too. That is $10 more than it was just a year or two ago, which is a 10% increase. That is a bigger increase than inflation or the CPI.
 
travelin Joe said:
Sorcha said:
I understand. A few weeks ago, I checked round-trip tickets to Chicago next weekend. Total cost was $178 with our discounts. (It's usually around $80-90.) We're going to drive since it doesn't make sense to pay $178 for a five-hour round-trip.
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I have a mixed view, I was taking Amtrak from Chi to StL (5 Hour trip) and paying $20 extra for business class (last time I did this was Feb 2013); now you have to pay $62 extra for business class (free coffee, 1 juice, a newspaper, extra outlets, and leather seats). Reg coach is $26 one way. So for coach travelers its a bargain but not for business class $176 round trip.
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This was for coach. :) We used to fork over the $20 for business class too, mostly because you get to board first at CHI and avoid all the entitled brats from Royal Oak and Ann Arbor in the coaches, but only when coach prices were suuuuuper low-bucket.
 
Ispolkom said:
I have been on trains (the Cardinal, and the City of New Orleans south of Memphis) where entire coaches were closed, seemingly for crew convenience. In any case, in both cases it was during the day, there weren't any large groups boarding, and I did ride those trains from the beginning of the route to either the end (the City of New Orleans) or the point at which passengers could no longer board (the Cardinal).
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Now that's abuse and should have been reported.

I've actually seen bizarrely large blocks of seats marked off "for crew" (who rarely used them) but at least they didn't say that the seats were for a group of passengers boarding later.

I can see why a lazy crew might want to close off entire coaches. There isn't really any incentive for a lazy crew to close off only certain rows in a coach, though, which is why it seems so odd. They still have to do just as much work.

On the latter train I spent a few hours riding in the empty coach, as my sister was taking a nap in our bedroom and the coach seats are more comfortable than those in the Sightseer Lounge. An assistant conductor asked me rather sharply what I was doing sitting there, but was mollified when he learned that I wasn't a coach passenger, but rather from the sleeper.
I assume that higher prices mean that Amtrak is enjoying higher utilization. But is that true? Are passenger-miles (especially sleeper passenger miles) increasing on long-distance trains?
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That's in the monthly reports, and on the whole, yes.
 
dart330 said:
. But my understanding is it (CZ) is usually pretty empty between Denver and Reno.
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This certainly wasn't the case in my last DEN to EMY trip. My guess is that actual data would show that average ridership DEN-RNO is slightly less than CHI-DEN. Over time this morphs into "pretty empty" and achieves AU old wives' tale status.
 
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