Blizzard on the Builder

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CHamilton

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Some interesting comments from the Yahoo EB group about yesterday's disruption of #7.

Blizzard conditions, along with probably other factors, have rendered all three Amtrak locomotives on train 7-17 almost powerless inbound at Minot where the train was struggling to make 40 MPH. Blowing snow closed many roads.
7-17 picked up unit BNSF 4516 at Minot to pull the train westward, where it might get to thaw in warmer temperatures.
Train 7-17 terminated at Spokane, arriving just short of 7.5 hours late.
Passengers busing, 8-19 origates at Spokane. BNSF unit will accompany the
Ampower back east. Also a BNSF locomotive leading train 8-18….
Which segued into a discussion of the Amtrak engines in question.


Been a problem with the Genesis since they were new in the 1990s, still not fixed!
When the 1st ones came out west. they run them thru the wash rack in SEA and killed the engines deader than a hammer
then GE put louvers on the intakes.
Then they experienced reduced power cause the Traction Motor Intake filters were plugging up with leaves and blowing grass, straw, etc in the fall thru the farm lands
Amtk just went the cheap route and that is what they got, JUNK! They just keep patching em up and sending em out. If they would buy a reputable locomotive for a change, they would have something that would run consistently.
 
Some interesting comments from the Yahoo EB group about yesterday's disruption of #7.


Blizzard conditions, along with probably other factors, have rendered all three Amtrak locomotives on train 7-17 almost powerless inbound at Minot where the train was struggling to make 40 MPH. Blowing snow closed many roads.
7-17 picked up unit BNSF 4516 at Minot to pull the train westward, where it might get to thaw in warmer temperatures.
Train 7-17 terminated at Spokane, arriving just short of 7.5 hours late.
Passengers busing, 8-19 origates at Spokane. BNSF unit will accompany the
Ampower back east. Also a BNSF locomotive leading train 8-18….
Which segued into a discussion of the Amtrak engines in question.


Been a problem with the Genesis since they were new in the 1990s, still not fixed!
When the 1st ones came out west. they run them thru the wash rack in SEA and killed the engines deader than a hammer
then GE put louvers on the intakes.
Then they experienced reduced power cause the Traction Motor Intake filters were plugging up with leaves and blowing grass, straw, etc in the fall thru the farm lands
Amtk just went the cheap route and that is what they got, JUNK! They just keep patching em up and sending em out. If they would buy a reputable locomotive for a change, they would have something that would run consistently.
Hey -- engines that fail near Minot between October and April - normal -normal normal -- those unseasonal Arctic winds there are actually pretty typical seasonal anytime the last century or so. The floods come later in the year. Which might be soon, but not much danger this year - not much snow so far - so the Mouse and the Reddy ice backups probably not serious. Probably.

Any rant about the admitted faults of the current crop of engines may well be justifiable - loco(motive) ranters are a dime a dozen -

I am considering a next weekend coach trip from MSP with one-day stops at Grand Forks and Minot and then back to MSP -- because those places in spring blizzards are part of my heritage.

My parents told me I was conceived in a "trailer park" in Minot one winter long ago when the doors froze shut for most of a week. Mythology in action. But in any case, Minot has been

cold, cold, cold every winter since the railroad arrived, and probably a few thousand winters before that.

Has anyone here done a day (or two-day) trip just to stay in Minot or grand Forks in the real winter or even in the March "winter-breaking" season?
 
The GM E and F Units used by the Great Northern later Burlington Northern and Amtrak did not have the problems that the Genesis Units do. I rode the Empire Builder in some pretty bad snow storms in the early 1970s. On the week before Easter in 1975, the Empire Builder was the only way out of town for several days in Grand Forks, ND because the airport was shut down and Greyhound or the local feeder buses didn't run.
 
No doubt about that - the late 60's early 70's GN EB trainsets did really really well through the typical Hi-line weather.

I very clearly remember catching the Eastbound Builder about 2 hours late at Wahpeton, late out of a spring blizzard, and even considering the padding in the schedule, made up a lot of time between Wahpeton and MSP - arrived only 20 minutes late by the schedule. We may have been running over track speed between Willmar and MSP ??

However fast, or late, that was a smooth comfortable and warm ride. About 45 years ago.
 
The Builder and the Zephyr are the two trains in the system that I've seriously considered packing an MRE in my bag for a wintertime trip, considering the "fun" of some of the more legendary delays. Especially if it's a crowded time of year likely to stress the on-board food situation (i.e. near Christmas), having a spare meal in my bag in the event that things really to go to Helena is something I've generally thought wise.
 
Packing food might be a good idea but I'm not sure an MRE would be my first choice.

Seriously we have a trip upcoming on the EB and this is the first I've heard of Genesisbpower issues in the snow. Does it happen often or is it a once per winter sort of a problem?

BTW, motive power aside, having ridden the EB in the 70s I'm not sure I'd be anxious to trade today's HEP for steam. The week after Christmas back then we had a steam line freeze up (the crew said it was some of the ex-SCL cars had smaller diameter piping) and it got very very cold.
 
Packing food might be a good idea but I'm not sure an MRE would be my first choice. Seriously we have a trip upcoming on the EB and this is the first I've heard of Genesisbpower issues in the snow. Does it happen often or is it a once per winter sort of a problem? BTW, motive power aside, having ridden the EB in the 70s I'm not sure I'd be anxious to trade today's HEP for steam. The week after Christmas back then we had a steam line freeze up (the crew said it was some of the ex-SCL cars had smaller diameter piping) and it got very very cold.
The P-42s have problems occasionally in the snow, usually from cold, powdery snowfalls. There was a lot of this two winters ago, which was particularly snowy, but last winter and this one have been fairly uneventful. I didn't hear of one delay at Minot, for instance, due to the diesel being too cold to pump.

And in any case, even with the current locomotives' problems with winter, I've been on the Empire Builder several times in the past few years when it was full of passengers whose flights to Minot had been canceled because of winter weather.

Given the choice of an MRE and Amtrak emergency Dinty Moore stew, I think I'd prefer to fast.
 
I got a chuckle about the MRE comment. Obviously that person has not had one of the new ones--They are actually very good now. Too many calories (around 2000) for a normal person, but then, these are meant to feed a soldier in active combat. I would select one of the newer MRE items over the Dinty Moore stew any day-plus the other items in the MRE are great snack foods! :)
 
As train travel and snow are two of my most favorite things, I would welcome a delay. I am traveling the EB in May, possibly too late this year for a snow delay, but will definitely have to plan on a trip next winter. I traveled the CZ and the CS in February and the snow was beautiful. The blizzard delay that I encountered was on the LSL where all the door areas were filled with snow. Talk about a cold walk to breakfast from coach. I loved it. The only drawback to the blizzard was that my clothes that were in my checked luggage were soaked. Had to use the hotel dryer before I could even shower after having been on the train for five days. Oh well, now I know to pack everything in a plastic bag in the suitcase during the winter.
 
in the event that things really to go to Helena
And if the EB really does end up in Helena you'll know things are seriously wrong! (Though you might enjoy the rare

mileage...) :giggle:
That would be a serious detour, though it is actually feasible! The EB running voer Montana Rail Link!
 
I was on the 8 (15) and it was quite cold when I stepped off for fresh air in Minot. Overnight, the temps across ND and MN dipped to 15 below and caused the water tank on the dining car to freeze and they made the announcements that morning to bring your coffee with you from the sleeper because they couldn't make any in the diner. We were 3 hours down at St Cloud where it was -1 and a blizzard warning but we were only an hour late into Chicago.

There was snow accumulating near the doors downstairs and the TA-S had a hard time opening the door at Minot because it was frozen.
 
Aren't there some tunnels on MT Rail Link that would pose an problem for the Superliner cars though?
Dunno. Could be. I was under the impression that the Mullens Pass tunnel is capable of taking Superliner height cars after its reconstruction in 2009, but I could be quite wrong on that, since I don't really keep track of what's going on in that part of the world.
 
Again from the Yahoo EB group.

Train 8-19 was deja vu all over again, just like a couple of weeks ago.

The equipment... was off train 7-17, which arrived Minot (just barely) with locomotives in various stages of croaked, but still producing head-end power. A BNSF unit was added, and off the train went - to Spokane.

Evidently, someone at Amtrak declared at least one of the locomotives "OK" in the warmer, drier climate of Spokane, and train 8-19 departed with the same locmotives (including the BNSF unit). Around Libby, the crew declared that the Amtrak power was again not making tractive effort, and Amtrak made BNSF jump through hoops to create yet another locomotive to add at Whitefish. One can only speculate on the reason, as one C44 would easily pull 3 powerless P42s, one baggage and 10 Superliner cars up the 1.8 percent grade of Marias Pass. But add they did, and the train was further delayed, as it is en route to Chicago today:
 
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