Swadian Hardcore
Engineer
Jim, you were in the armed forces?
What is ACE Commuter?
- Thread starter John Bobinyec
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Proudly served 4 years in the U,S. Navy plus my Dad was Career Air Force so I lived on Many Bases and Places while Growing up.
But my Government Service I refer to was with the Dept. Of Labor (Federal/ NationalJob Corps Office ) and the Dept. of Health and Human Services (State of Texas!)My Formal Education (Bachelors and Masters) was in Public Administration/Govt.
Ryan
Court Jester
Navy? Air Force?!? The man said "Armed Forces", not "Armed Farces"!!!
As I remember Ryan, You were a Naval Officer and had one of the Best Lines ever here on an exchange with a Retired Master Chief that said: "You would have called me Sir!"
Marines are the ones who think that all the other Armed services are "Soft"but we always reminded them that the Navy was who gave them Rides so they could be "First to Fight!" :giggle:
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Swadian Hardcore
Engineer
Now I understand "exceptions that proved the rule"!
X
X
Guest
Ok, so you've managed to move two aditional train loads of passengers in the morning, now how do you get them back in the evening?
Texan Eagle
Conductor
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Not sure if serious or trolling. As I said, this was just an example of how rolling stock can be used more efficiently. I just spent five minutes to insert two new services into existing timetable, but if a serious interest exists, Caltrain and ACE can definitely do much better than this with all resources (schedules, maintenance, crew timings etc) at their disposal.
But if you so insist, here is an example for evening commute hours too-
Evening commute hours Caltrain schedule:
San Francisco... 4:09 4:19 4:27 4:33 4:56 5:14 5:20 5:27 5:33
San Jose........... 5:06 5:27 5:57 5:32 6:16 6:11 6:28 6:58 6:32
The last two ACE trains depart SJC at 5:35pm and 6:38pm.
So, if you move the 4:19 departure back by two minutes to 4:21, you can insert an additional limited stop run departing San Francisco at 4:15pm, reaching SJC around 5:25. This train can then become 5:35 ACE service to Stockton.
Next, between 4:56 limited and 5:14 Baby Bullet there is a twenty minute gap at peak office hours, insert an additional limited stop run at say, 5:04pm, reaching SJC around 6:25pm, which can then become the 6:38 ACE departure to Stcokton.
Happy?
X
X
Guest
A 10 minute layover is barely enough time to get everyone off and back on, let alone clean or do anything else. What happens if they're even the tiniest bit late? You just shot all the scheduling straight to hell.
There's a lot more to running trains then just finding slots to fill, you need time for padding, maintenance, crew rest / changes, cleaning, servicing, etc.
There's a lot more to running trains then just finding slots to fill, you need time for padding, maintenance, crew rest / changes, cleaning, servicing, etc.
Texan Eagle
Conductor
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We are talking about commuter trains here, not long distance Amtraks that need a long time for people and their baggage to get off and get on. Here people are so used to running a rural railway line with decent frequency as "commuter line" that they don't realize how real commuter lines work across the world. Around ten to fifteen minutes is comfortably sufficient time to turnaround a commuter train. BTW, I don't know if you ever saw Caltrain schedules- Caltrain's Baby Bullet services turn around in San Francisco in twelve to fifteen minutes in the morning.
Padding and late running you ask? Caltrain schedule already has padding to allow small delays, the times I suggested also includes the same. And worrying about tiniest bit late? LOL. I travel by Caltrain daily and it doesn't even surprise anyone anymore when trains are running ten-fifteen minutes late, happens on an average five-ten days a month under the current schedule too. It's not like they are currently running epitome of punctuality and adding two additional services will shoot stuff to hell.
Yes, and that is why I said twice, and I repeat a third time, what I gave was just sample of what can be done regarding efficient use of resources. If Caltrain and ACE can come together with all the operational constraints they have, they can churn out a more efficient running than what exists now, if there is the will to do so.
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Just for comparison, Capitol Corridor (Amtrak California) does have some quick turn around times. A few in Sacramento and San Jose are between 20-30 minutes and one at Oakland-Jack London is between 15-20 minutes. It is a fairly common practice and the trains do run rather on-time on the route. But if there is a delay then it will affect the turning of the trainset and following schedule as well.
Crews are used to the drill and often times don't even cycle the doors between off-loading passengers and boarding passengers. Some of the trains even utilized the same crew and did not exchange.
With that said, I'd stick to keeping the layovers between 20-30 minutes. Allows for some recovery and turn-around time.
As for ACE... they tend to pull in their equipment early to provide for an on-time departure as they have their slots they have to stick to on their rail line. I don't know how the ACE passengers would feel about combining.
In theory I like the idea. But working in transportation in the Bay Area, the agencies are not going to exhibit that kind of cooperation without extensive agreements to cover liability and costs for each. All comes down to the politics, which often times has little to do with the passenger.
Crews are used to the drill and often times don't even cycle the doors between off-loading passengers and boarding passengers. Some of the trains even utilized the same crew and did not exchange.
With that said, I'd stick to keeping the layovers between 20-30 minutes. Allows for some recovery and turn-around time.
As for ACE... they tend to pull in their equipment early to provide for an on-time departure as they have their slots they have to stick to on their rail line. I don't know how the ACE passengers would feel about combining.
In theory I like the idea. But working in transportation in the Bay Area, the agencies are not going to exhibit that kind of cooperation without extensive agreements to cover liability and costs for each. All comes down to the politics, which often times has little to do with the passenger.
VentureForth
Engineer
I agree with Alan. When there is a commuter railroad involved, most folks understand the concept of get out and get in. This includes passengers and crew. The next driver, ideally, is waiting at the platform, ready to do a pre-flight and take over the controls as soon as the inbound arrives. 10 minutes should be plenty of time.
Metrolink operates on a ton of single track with grade crossings, and at the mercy of UP. It's a miracle they do as well as they do.
BCL
Engineer
I tried a different station yesterday. This one serves ACE, Caltrain, and Amtrak.
When the ACE train stopped, there was a loud announcement that "This is an ACE train. This not Caltrain. This is not Amtrak." I would have thought the colors would have been obvious but I suppose there are blind passengers.
When the ACE train stopped, there was a loud announcement that "This is an ACE train. This not Caltrain. This is not Amtrak." I would have thought the colors would have been obvious but I suppose there are blind passengers.
Texan Eagle
Conductor
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This happens all around the country, but especially here in the NE. Many people simply pay no attention to details like that. Most Amtrak conductors will state several times when arriving at stations like Trenton, Metropark, Newark, Stamford, and New Haven that "this is an Amtrak train, not a MN or NJT train." If they don't, when the doors open, people just board the train without paying any attention to what train it is that they've boarded.
It becomes an even bigger problem if Amtrak is running late and arriving right around the time that a commuter train was expected.
In my (admittedly limited) travels on the NEC, I've noticed this practice (of specifically stating "this is an Amtrak train, NOT an NJT train") more in NJT-land than anywhere else (MARC, MNR, MBTA, SEPTA, etc). Any idea if that's just been a fluke, if in fact it occurs throughout the NEC in commuter train territory, or if there are more problems with NJT passengers boarding Amtrak trains than other commuter rail passengers?
Ryan
Court Jester
Never heard it on MARC.
Maybe us Marylanders are just smarter than our New Jersey brethren.
Maybe us Marylanders are just smarter than our New Jersey brethren.
BCL
Engineer
I've definitely experienced situations where the conductor made a concerted effort to says which route. I've seen one case where a Capitol Corridor and San Joaquin train arrived at about the same time and actually in different directions (each train came in on the left). The conductor on the San Joaquin didn't just make and announcement but came out and yelled out that it wasn't the Capitol Corridor. I've also seen three trains at Emeryville. All were Amtrak and it could get confusing.
However, today was probably the most puzzling. I was waiting in Fremont for the southbound 527. I did see several southbound ACE trains come and go. The electronic board finally indicated that the 527 would be late due to track maintenance, but the last update said 9:44 which was bout 15 minutes late. It said this until maybe 10:14 when I saw the late northbound 528 on the tracks, and another train pulling (well - pushing really) into the station northbound on what would normally be the southbound platform. I tried listening in near a door, and barely heard an announcement that it was the 527 and got on about two seconds before the door closed. The electronic signs weren't indicating anything; they sometimes indicate "now boarding". When I got on, the train reversed direction and headed towards San Jose. I asked someone on board what happened, and was told that they bypassed the normal route to get past the station, and then backtracked to the Fremont station. I'm not sure how they would do it, but there are lots of tracks around the industrial areas of Hayward and Fremont.
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Just saw the ACE train come into San Jose. It was 7 cars long. If they have the equipment they do use longer trains. There was a decent load getting off. I know the electric display signs do display ACE service information as well such as if a train will be missing a bike car.
Cristobal
Lead Service Attendant
Yeah, there is a switch a mile or so past the Coliseum station that takes you off of the normal CC route and then you rejoin it at the 'Y' that is at the slow turn that occurs just before the salt plant. If you are on the CC s/b, once past the Coliseum keep an eye out for the rental yard on the right-hand side of the train (usually has several man-lifts extended and sitting in the yard). Just pass that is switch off to the sub.
If I can continually punch holes in your "example" it's obviously not an example of anything. I can provide infeasible options all day.
I'm not aware of any layover in San Francisco less than fifteen minutes, even during commute. Under the old schedule, it would take about two hours for any problem northbound to ripple out to cancelled southbound trains due to no equipment.
Caltrain doesn't assign particular consists to specific runs. In fact, in order to accomodate maintenance work, the trains move through the schedule during the week. I would have thought that, as a regular rider, you would have noticed your engine number change.
Texan Eagle
Conductor
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Of course I have noticed engine number changes. My observation about 12-15 minute turnaround was based on seeing the schedules where incoming Bullets returning as outgoing Bullets. I do not commute upto 4th & King so haven't seen what happens in person but I can put a fairly confident bet that the 12-15 minute turnarounds I am seeing are the same train sets, because, 99% of the times Caltrain uses the Bombardier sets for Baby Bullet service and Nippon Gallery sets mix and matched with some Bombardier for everything else, so when I see a Bullet arrival and a Bullet departure at 4th & King in 15 minute period, I guess it is the same Bombarider set returning, though I could be wrong in some instances.
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