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I heard there were some issues with a few cars in Chicago that prevented it from leaving on time.
 
Once an Amtrak train misses it's window the freights are no longer obligated to give it priority.
 
It was only about 3-1/2 hrs late enroute. That doesn't seem excessive to me for being "out of the slot". I think the CZ(5) I was on last fall was 3 hours late into Denver and we left Chicago on time.
 
Swadian Hardcore said:
E Runs said:
Once an Amtrak train misses it's window the freights are no longer obligated to give it priority.
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I don't think there's enough freights to give it so much delay. All I can think of is that the train got stuck behind a freight that didn't move aside.
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Are the freight companies that contrary, or maybe the available sidings were too short?
 
I was in Chicago Wednesday - transferring from 6(15) to 30(17). The folks in the ML mentioned 5(17) was delayed due to problems with the diner car. I know the schedule is padded to provide some ability to make up lost time in route - however not sure schedule provides ability to make up time for 3 hour departure delay.

I was on 5(6) - departed CHI on time and for the most part ran on schedule. We lost some time in Omaha when we picked up two additional private cars and made up most of this lost time in route arriving at EMY about 4:30 PM (about 20 minutes late).

I was pleasantly surprised that 6(15) ran nearly on time through NE. We actually arrived early and had to wait to stay on schedule at a few locations. We lost some time due to BNSF track work in IA - arriving a few minutes early in CHI.

This was my first Zephyr trip and I just have to say the trip was awesome. The scenery in the Rockies and Sierras was/is amazing.

For those who track this sort of thing, 5(6) was mooned by folks rafting on the Colorado River (this section of which is apparently referred to as Moon River).
 
deimos said:
I was in Chicago Wednesday - transferring from 6(15) to 30(17). The folks in the ML mentioned 5(17) was delayed due to problems with the diner car. I know the schedule is padded to provide some ability to make up lost time in route - however not sure schedule provides ability to make up time for 3 hour departure delay.
Click to expand...
OK, that's not a good sign in terms of equipment availaibility. What that indicates is that there aren't enough spare Superliner diners. A serious problem should mean "Right, get the spare diner, get the train going, and work on this diner after it's left...." so this probably means there weren't any spares.

I expect this sort of thing with the single-level trains, because we all know there aren't enough Heritage diners and that they're quite unreliable at this point due to their age. It happens repeatedly with the Pacific Parlour Cars for the same reason. But this sort of incident indicates that there aren't enough Superliner diners to provide a comfortable pad for regular service either.

Oh dear. There are no Superliner diners on order, and they're rather essential for western long-distance service. Shortage of bilevel diners could actually lead to the conversion of a route (Capitol Limited or CONO) from Superliners to Viewliners. But there will not be enough Viewliner sleepers for that, as the new ones will sink right into the existing single-level trains, which command higher fares. I suppose we might see mixed-level trains; for instance, a single-level diner could be used on the Capitol Limited, especially with the Pennsyvlanian through cars plan.
 
Nathanael said:
deimos said:
I was in Chicago Wednesday - transferring from 6(15) to 30(17). The folks in the ML mentioned 5(17) was delayed due to problems with the diner car. I know the schedule is padded to provide some ability to make up lost time in route - however not sure schedule provides ability to make up time for 3 hour departure delay.
Click to expand...
OK, that's not a good sign in terms of equipment availaibility. What that indicates is that there aren't enough spare Superliner diners. A serious problem should mean "Right, get the spare diner, get the train going, and work on this diner after it's left...." so this probably means there weren't any spares.

I expect this sort of thing with the single-level trains, because we all know there aren't enough Heritage diners and that they're quite unreliable at this point due to their age. It happens repeatedly with the Pacific Parlour Cars for the same reason. But this sort of incident indicates that there aren't enough Superliner diners to provide a comfortable pad for regular service either.

Oh dear. There are no Superliner diners on order, and they're rather essential for western long-distance service. Shortage of bilevel diners could actually lead to the conversion of a route (Capitol Limited or CONO) from Superliners to Viewliners. But there will not be enough Viewliner sleepers for that, as the new ones will sink right into the existing single-level trains, which command higher fares. I suppose we might see mixed-level trains; for instance, a single-level diner could be used on the Capitol Limited, especially with the Pennsyvlanian through cars plan.
Click to expand...
There were actually four cars involved. First, a bad-ordered diner, then the diner selected to replace the first one was also bad-ordered requiring them to get yet a third diner. Then two sleepers were also bad-ordered. It appears that the problem was not a shortage of cars, it was a shortage of cars that were fit to run.
 
PRR 60 said:
Nathanael said:
deimos said:
I was in Chicago Wednesday - transferring from 6(15) to 30(17). The folks in the ML mentioned 5(17) was delayed due to problems with the diner car. I know the schedule is padded to provide some ability to make up lost time in route - however not sure schedule provides ability to make up time for 3 hour departure delay.
Click to expand...
OK, that's not a good sign in terms of equipment availaibility. What that indicates is that there aren't enough spare Superliner diners. A serious problem should mean "Right, get the spare diner, get the train going, and work on this diner after it's left...." so this probably means there weren't any spares.

I expect this sort of thing with the single-level trains, because we all know there aren't enough Heritage diners and that they're quite unreliable at this point due to their age. It happens repeatedly with the Pacific Parlour Cars for the same reason. But this sort of incident indicates that there aren't enough Superliner diners to provide a comfortable pad for regular service either.

Oh dear. There are no Superliner diners on order, and they're rather essential for western long-distance service. Shortage of bilevel diners could actually lead to the conversion of a route (Capitol Limited or CONO) from Superliners to Viewliners. But there will not be enough Viewliner sleepers for that, as the new ones will sink right into the existing single-level trains, which command higher fares. I suppose we might see mixed-level trains; for instance, a single-level diner could be used on the Capitol Limited, especially with the Pennsyvlanian through cars plan.
Click to expand...
There were actually four cars involved. First, a bad-ordered diner, then the diner selected to replace the first one was also bad-ordered requiring them to get yet a third diner. Then two sleepers were also bad-ordered. It appears that the problem was not a shortage of cars, it was a shortage of cars that were fit to run.
Click to expand...
Not only that, but depending on how late in the process a defect is discovered, first you have to determine whether or not it can be easily repaired in the consist, then, if the answer is no, you have to identify the replacement, fish it out of whatever track it's on, then pull the entire Zephyr consist down to the yard, possibly unload all of the supplies in the diner that were already loaded (and, while I'm not really 100% familiar with this part, I'm guessing the commissary has to come back and get all of the refrigerated items from both the lounge and diner and put them somewhere because the train will be without power for a while), then do all of the switching involved, then restock everything. The switching alone could take 45-60 minutes depending on where the relevant cars are (and also depending on whether you have only one crew available, or two crews that can work simultaneously, setting out the bad-ordered car and getting the new car in position).

So, a late bad-order, even if another car is ready to go, can easily set you back well over an hour. If the second car turns out to be bad-ordered (and sleepers on top of that, I guess), well, there's your 3.5 hour delay.
 
E Runs said:
Once an Amtrak train misses it's window the freights are no longer obligated to give it priority.
Click to expand...
Not exactly. Most contracts between Amtrak and the host railroads are based either on total delay attributed to that railroad, or based on a total elapsed time enroute from when they receive the train. There may be some additional relief for out-of-slot trains, but there is no legal or contractual language that says "out of slot, you're totally SOL."
 
PRR 60 said:
There were actually four cars involved. First, a bad-ordered diner, then the diner selected to replace the first one was also bad-ordered requiring them to get yet a third diner. Then two sleepers were also bad-ordered. It appears that the problem was not a shortage of cars, it was a shortage of cars that were fit to run.
Click to expand...
Ah. OK, that's a very different problem. And a relief. :)

How the heck did they end up with so many bad-ordered cars, and more specifically how come they only noticed when the cars were just about to go out? They're supposed to notice these things when they take them out of service at the end of the previous run....
 
Nathanael said:
PRR 60 said:
There were actually four cars involved. First, a bad-ordered diner, then the diner selected to replace the first one was also bad-ordered requiring them to get yet a third diner. Then two sleepers were also bad-ordered. It appears that the problem was not a shortage of cars, it was a shortage of cars that were fit to run.
Click to expand...
Ah. OK, that's a very different problem. And a relief. :)

How the heck did they end up with so many bad-ordered cars, and more specifically how come they only noticed when the cars were just about to go out? They're supposed to notice these things when they take them out of service at the end of the previous run....
Click to expand...
The Chicago yard Crews and Cleaners are Notoriuous for not doing their jobs correctly! Id think that even when OBS make Maintence and Repair orders on their Cars that the CHI crews tend to NOT fix what they note! Two Diners being Bad ordered is unusual, there are spare CCCs in CHI so perhaps they should replace a bad ordered Diner with one of these instead of another Full Diner when problems arise! The way Amtrak is being forced to run the Equipment to death we probably will see more and more Bad ordered Cars on all the Routes! :help:
 
deimos said:
This was my first Zephyr trip and I just have to say the trip was awesome. The scenery in the Rockies and Sierras was/is amazing.

For those who track this sort of thing, 5(6) was mooned by folks rafting on the Colorado River (this section of which is apparently referred to as Moon River).
Click to expand...
Good to know some hearty bottoms were still present this time of year.

Trogdor said:
E Runs said:
Once an Amtrak train misses it's window the freights are no longer obligated to give it priority.
Click to expand...
Not exactly. Most contracts between Amtrak and the host railroads are based either on total delay attributed to that railroad, or based on a total elapsed time enroute from when they receive the train. There may be some additional relief for out-of-slot trains, but there is no legal or contractual language that says "out of slot, you're totally SOL."
Click to expand...
Thanks for the clarification.
 
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