WiFi and Amtrak: Missed Connections

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I gather that it's only available on the Acela at present??? I'd love to have it on the AT, but that's probably way too much wishful thinking, and too difficult logistics wise, along the CSX route.
WiFi is available on the following trains listed on the website. Well, its available until several hundred other people try to use it at the same time and when the nearest cell phone towers can handle the data load from a passing train.

In the past several years, Amtrak has added WiFi to the Acela, the Amfleet I coach and café cars, the Surfliners in CA, the Talgos on the Cascades corridor. WiFi equipment has not yet been added to the Amfleet II, Superliner, and Horizon cars. There was a item in an Amtrak report about adding WiFi to the AutoTrain lounge cars, but that apparently has not happened yet.
 
I gather that it's only available on the Acela at present??? I'd love to have it on the AT, but that's probably way too much wishful thinking, and too difficult logistics wise, along the CSX route.
WiFi is available on the following trains listed on the website. Well, its available until several hundred other people try to use it at the same time and when the nearest cell phone towers can handle the data load from a passing train.

In the past several years, Amtrak has added WiFi to the Acela, the Amfleet I coach and café cars, the Surfliners in CA, the Talgos on the Cascades corridor. WiFi equipment has not yet been added to the Amfleet II, Superliner, and Horizon cars. There was a item in an Amtrak report about adding WiFi to the AutoTrain lounge cars, but that apparently has not happened yet.
Coast Starlight has WiFi.
 
I have consistently posted on this forum with my disappointment with the amtrak wifi service. I understand the limitations that the trains face, but to me it is a problem of expectations, as the article mentions. Amtrak has heavily marketed their wifi which is so slow as to be unusable. I do much better on my iPhone with the 3G connection than attempting to use the wifi.

And the wifi did not work on the Coast Starlight when I rode it last year.

I actually find the wifi to be quite good on the regional in October, but I was sitting in the cafe car and it was before the hard launch. I think it was only good because I was in the cafe/lounge and not that many folks were using it.
 
I gather that it's only available on the Acela at present??? I'd love to have it on the AT, but that's probably way too much wishful thinking, and too difficult logistics wise, along the CSX route.
WiFi is available on the following trains listed on the website. Well, its available until several hundred other people try to use it at the same time and when the nearest cell phone towers can handle the data load from a passing train.

In the past several years, Amtrak has added WiFi to the Acela, the Amfleet I coach and café cars, the Surfliners in CA, the Talgos on the Cascades corridor. WiFi equipment has not yet been added to the Amfleet II, Superliner, and Horizon cars. There was a item in an Amtrak report about adding WiFi to the AutoTrain lounge cars, but that apparently has not happened yet.
I don't know if it would be possible to have WiFi on the entire Auto Train route. If it's the same dependence as my cell/Blackberry (Verizon 3G), then there are a lot of gaps along the way. And it's not reliable if it can fade out on you en-route. I would imagine some new towers would have to be installed, at great expense.

Probably not profitable in the long run. Unless the "snowbirds" start to get interested in WiFi, I doubt it will happen on the Auto Train.
 
Auto Train appeared to be testing it out last winter. There was signal in the lounge. It didn't work well at the time--connection would come to a halt when passing through some rural areas.
 
As a rule, I've found that the Wi-Fi works pretty well in Virginia...but then again, down here we're not fighting with a thousand other people on trains between DC and Philly for those connections.
 
I don't know if it would be possible to have WiFi on the entire Auto Train route. If it's the same dependence as my cell/Blackberry (Verizon 3G), then there are a lot of gaps along the way. And it's not reliable if it can fade out on you en-route. I would imagine some new towers would have to be installed, at great expense.

Probably not profitable in the long run. Unless the "snowbirds" start to get interested in WiFi, I doubt it will happen on the Auto Train.
One partial solution for cell phone coverage, is have the server in the cafe cars access multiple vendors; Verizon, AT&T. So if the train is passing through a dead area for Verizon, use AT&T if it there is a signal. This will only go so far, as the trains on tracks well away from the major roads are likely to be passing through poor cell coverage areas.

Amtrak will have to add WiFi to all of its trains to compete, including the AutoTrain. The funds to add WiFi to the remainder of the fleet is in the FY2013 budget, but the preliminary FY13 capital budget will get cut when Congress pass (if it passes) the FY13 budget. Remains to be seen if more WiFi systems will be installed in FY13.
 
I don't know if it would be possible to have WiFi on the entire Auto Train route. If it's the same dependence as my cell/Blackberry (Verizon 3G), then there are a lot of gaps along the way. And it's not reliable if it can fade out on you en-route. I would imagine some new towers would have to be installed, at great expense.

Probably not profitable in the long run. Unless the "snowbirds" start to get interested in WiFi, I doubt it will happen on the Auto Train.
One partial solution for cell phone coverage, is have the server in the cafe cars access multiple vendors; Verizon, AT&T. So if the train is passing through a dead area for Verizon, use AT&T if it there is a signal. This will only go so far, as the trains on tracks well away from the major roads are likely to be passing through poor cell coverage areas.
That's exactly what does happen, the system is setup with cards from all the major carriers. And it moves between the cards that at any given moment have the strongest signal. This while never providing 100% continuous coverage, will probably work for a large majority of Amtrak's LD trains. The biggest problems are see are the Coast Starlight in Oregon, the Zephyr in the Rockies, the Cardinal in New River Gorge, and a large part of the Empire Builder's route.

And the Auto Train did run a test in the lounge cars a bit over a year ago now, IIRC. I'm not sure just what they discovered and/or decided from that test. However, to my knowledge, at least for now that system is gone. I'm not sure if that's the same system that is now in use on the Acela & the Regionals.
 
The wifi on the Pacific Surfliner is actually decent. By no means great or even good, but bearable. I imagine that that's the case, though, only in the cafe car, as it probably gets worse as you travel away.

From the article, I'm not quite certain that the Acela makes up 25% of ridership on Amtrak.. Seems like a number that so many of these reporters throw out there out of laziness to actually check facts.
 
Just to be clear, the Coast Starlight Wi-Fi is provided by a different vendor than the one that does all the other trains.
 
The system is setup with cards from all the major carriers. And it moves between the cards that at any given moment have the strongest signal. This while never providing 100% continuous coverage, will probably work for a large majority of Amtrak's LD trains.
We're talking about hundreds of passengers per train here, many of whom already have some sort of wireless device ready to fire up should a usable signal ever arrive. Does each train have dozens of separate access points on each of the major networks to give the users a fighting chance of a useful signal? I have tried every major carrier (AT&T, Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile) along the Sunset Limited route and received little or no service no matter the card or provider. So far as I can tell it's not even close to being ready for dozens or possibly hundreds of users at once and there is little incentive for the network carriers to install more towers for trains that run once a day at most and only once every few days in the case of Union Pacific's Sunset Route.
 
The system is setup with cards from all the major carriers. And it moves between the cards that at any given moment have the strongest signal. This while never providing 100% continuous coverage, will probably work for a large majority of Amtrak's LD trains.
We're talking about hundreds of passengers per train here, many of whom already have some sort of wireless device ready to fire up should a usable signal ever arrive. Does each train have dozens of separate access points on each of the major networks to give the users a fighting chance of a useful signal? I have tried every major carrier (AT&T, Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile) along the Sunset Limited route and received little or no service no matter the card or provider. So far as I can tell it's not even close to being ready for dozens or possibly hundreds of users at once and there is little incentive for the network carriers to install more towers for trains that run once a day at most and only once every few days in the case of Union Pacific's Sunset Route.
The CCJPA (Capitol Corridor) has an excellent high-level description of how the system works on their website:

LINK
 
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I have consistently posted on this forum with my disappointment with the amtrak wifi service. I understand the limitations that the trains face, but to me it is a problem of expectations, as the article mentions. Amtrak has heavily marketed their wifi which is so slow as to be unusable. I do much better on my iPhone with the 3G connection than attempting to use the wifi.
Yep. WiFi on a moving LD train is simply an unworkable idea.

This is a good example that sometimes a company should ignore customer requests because even though they sound reasonable on the surface, they are just plain bad ideas. And as in this case, something a company can't possibly achieve "on the cheap".
 
I had pretty good luck with the WIFI on a sold out 161 (w/ an extra coach, so likely 500+ passengers) this past Monday. I saw probably 20% of my car at any one time using wireless devices, whether they were all using the Amtrakconnect WIFI or not I can't confirm. I was able to surf the web and use google maps no problem. A guy across the aisle from me was streaming a Netflix movie, and he did have some trouble with it stalling, but he did get through the whole movie. One thing to consider is that more and more people are going to try to connect to the WIFI because most wireless carriers are doing away with unlimited data plans, people are going to want to conserve that by connecting to WIFI whenever they can.
 
I have to wonder how long this will ultimately be a problem. Carriers are slowly but surely moving towards data plans that allow you to have multiple devices attached to a single account, so you'll no longer need one plan for your phone, another for your tablet, etc.

And with the move to 4G, WiFi is horribly slow anyhow. ;-) I generally get around 12-4Mb/sec on my Droid Razr Max on 4G, which is insanely faster than any public WiFi network you're likely to find. As it gets rolled out to more areas and added to more devices, it would make little sense for people to compete for the limited bandwidth and area coverage of most WiFi networks.
 
From the article, I'm not quite certain that the Acela makes up 25% of ridership on Amtrak.. Seems like a number that so many of these reporters throw out there out of laziness to actually check facts.
The Acela provides 25% of Amtrak's ticket revenue while carrying around 11% of the total passengers. The Acela with 3.38 million passengers in FY2011 accounted for around 31% of the passengers traveling between endpoints on the NEC, so that is not the source of the 25% number. The reporter was stating what the Amtrak spokesman said. Since it was not a direct quote, the reported either messed up summarizing what was said or the Amtrak representative mis-spoke.
 
I have consistently posted on this forum with my disappointment with the amtrak wifi service. I understand the limitations that the trains face, but to me it is a problem of expectations, as the article mentions. Amtrak has heavily marketed their wifi which is so slow as to be unusable. I do much better on my iPhone with the 3G connection than attempting to use the wifi.
Yep. WiFi on a moving LD train is simply an unworkable idea.

This is a good example that sometimes a company should ignore customer requests because even though they sound reasonable on the surface, they are just plain bad ideas. And as in this case, something a company can't possibly achieve "on the cheap".
WiFi works just fine on moving trains and buses in many other places in the world, and for cryin' out loud it even works on planes with 500 passengers in it. So what is so special about our trains that makes it an unworkable idea? Heck even my 3G/4G MiFi service works just fine when there is signal. The issue is of making signals more available along the RoW.

I think the problem that Amtrak is facing is one of under-configuration of capacity, which is something that can be fixed, and I understand they are working on fixing it. It is a problem faced when one is too successful, a good problem to have IMHO. Most Telcos are suffering from similar problems specially in the Cell segment. They don't have the problem in the core Trunk segment.

There is also the possibility of using direct Sat link instead of depending on the terrestrial cellular network, which is what airlines do. But that does add to the cost, though it provides pretty continuous service all over the world even across vast oceans. Railroads have the additional problem of running through tunnels and deep cuts to contend with too.
 
The CCJPA (Capitol Corridor) has an excellent high-level description of how the system works on their website:

LINK
Thanks for that link. The explains exactly what the problem is: the units do not currently have support for 4G. I manage a fleet of buses that have WiFi service. Our WiFi became almost unusably slow on our most popular routes, until we upgraded to 4G LTE a few months back. Now, as long as the bus is in a 4G area (which is also where the largest percentage of ridership is) the service works great, even with a large number of users on it. 4G LTE will result is a large speed increase along the areas with the highest ridership, so things should improve noticeably on the NEC.
 
They don't have the problem in the core Trunk segment.
Backhaul was a major issue during the initial 3G roll-outs and continues to be a problem outside of major metro areas where most of Amtrak's LD network lies.

There is also the possibility of using direct Sat link instead of depending on the terrestrial cellular network, which is what airlines do.
Most of the internet implementations you see on US flights are not part of any satellite link. They're from ground based skyward facing antennas. There are some in-flight technologies that use expensive satellite links for data, but that's not what you're buying on most US flights. In many cases both technologies suffer the same interruptions anyway, probably because there is little financial benefit to blanketing the world's oceans with high speed internet access. On a flight to nearby Puerto Rico we lost both tower based internet and satellite based television as the plane left the US mainland.
 
The CCJPA (Capitol Corridor) has an excellent high-level description of how the system works on their website:

LINK
Thanks for that link. The explains exactly what the problem is: the units do not currently have support for 4G. I manage a fleet of buses that have WiFi service. Our WiFi became almost unusably slow on our most popular routes, until we upgraded to 4G LTE a few months back. Now, as long as the bus is in a 4G area (which is also where the largest percentage of ridership is) the service works great, even with a large number of users on it. 4G LTE will result is a large speed increase along the areas with the highest ridership, so things should improve noticeably on the NEC.
I did find it interesting that I could take the bus to Montpelier and have a better connection than I had on Amtrak out west.
 
WiFi works just fine on moving trains and buses in many other places in the world, and for cryin' out loud it even works on planes with 500 passengers in it. So what is so special about our trains that makes it an unworkable idea? Heck even my 3G/4G MiFi service works just fine when there is signal. The issue is of making signals more available along the RoW.
Your question is answered in the article itself: airlines force you to pay for wi-fi service. That weeds out people who may use wi-fi if it's free to casually browse the Web, but wouldn't see it worth paying for. Amtrak doesn't have that filter, so everyone that wants to use it has access to it. You would probably need close to a 40Mbps connection consistently to provide for the wants of 500 rail passengers, and even then people will be frustrated. (The college here has 80Mbps with 1100ish students, and there's still bandwidth issues and demand for more bandwidth.)
 
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