Pacific Parlour Car Rules

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Most of us carry phone with cameras and voice recorders. I would request the PCA to repeat (for the recorder) his rules, take his picture and tell him that this goes in an email to Amtrak. I would also ignore him, requesting that he call the conductor.
 
Rail Freak said:
zepherdude said:
But why are under 21s allowed in the snack bar, where there is beer, wine n booze, like someone else stated, under 21s are allowed in the dining car. This sounds like an arrogant employee trying to be the boss of his private domain and prove he is in charge. This can not be blamed on liquor laws. This guy was a jerk.
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I agree, the guy sounds like a jerk! But on my recent PPC experience 2 weeks ago, both on the #11 & #14, it was announced on the IC that no one under 21 years of age was allowed to participate!!!
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Ultimately this may be because they want to sell those bottles of wine. They'd be cutting out potential buyers if they gave a seat to a minor.
 
Rail Freak said:
zepherdude said:
But why are under 21s allowed in the snack bar, where there is beer, wine n booze, like someone else stated, under 21s are allowed in the dining car. This sounds like an arrogant employee trying to be the boss of his private domain and prove he is in charge. This can not be blamed on liquor laws. This guy was a jerk.
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I agree, the guy sounds like a jerk! But on my recent PPC eperience 2 weeks ago, both on the #11 & #14, it was announced on the IC that no one under 21 years of age was allowed to participate!!!
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It appears the no one under 21 rule is being more enforced now then it used to be. But still that´s no excuse for the PPC attendants actions or attitude.
 
RRrich said:
Most of us carry phone with cameras and voice recorders. I would request the PCA to repeat (for the recorder) his rules, take his picture and tell him that this goes in an email to Amtrak. I would also ignore him, requesting that he call the conductor.
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Also say he´s going to be a Youtube star LOL.
 
I think some of you guys/gals, those with lots of experience, should contact Amtrak and volunteer to be "secret shoppers". :ph34r:

Maybe ask for free railfare.
 
yarrow said:
didn't amtrak used to have a train manager who was on the train and in charge of obs? maybe i just dreamed that but it thought they used to.
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Looking back in my CS trip journals, I noted that the train manager for the Starlight joined our trains during trips in both January and February of 2010. After boarding in Oakland, she rode the train down to LA and made it a point to stop through each room and inquire about our onboard experiences. I've also met up with a kind man named Winston who was the train manager aboard the Sunset Limited as well as a nice woman named Meg who was the train manager aboard the Empire Builder. These were both during the past 12-18 months. I hope Amtrak continues to keep these folks out on the rails to assist in the maintenance/improvement of service levels.
 
Steve4031 said:
Recording the guy would only escalate the situation. I got stuck with a tyrannical ppc attendant named mark. He was obnoxious. Even his colleagues agreed.
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Can the OP confirm if this is the same guy?

ColdRain&Snow said:
Looking back in my CS trip journals, I noted that the train manager for the Starlight joined our trains during trips in both January and February of 2010. After boarding in Oakland, she rode the train down to LA and made it a point to stop through each room and inquire about our onboard experiences.
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Was this strictly a sleeper thing or did she talk to coach passengers as well?
 
His name was William. Aside from the examples I gave of his tyranical adherance to rules - either real or his own - he was a pleasant enough guy. But when it came to the things I mentioned, I felt he was out of line!
 
I took the route guide - the little blue book/pamphlet for the Coast Starlight - home with me after my trip in March of this year. It clearly states in the route guide that the wine and cheese tasting in the PPC is for adults over 21 years old only, and that anyone under 21 would not be allowed in the car.

So it appears that this is a legitimate rule, albeit one that isn't always enforced. We can all surmise as to the reasoning behind the rule, but it seems like that is the rule.
 
He may have been just called on the carpet for allowing people under 21 during the tasting.....just a natural reaction to protect your interests when it comes to your job.....
 
Tumbleweed said:
He may have been just called on the carpet for allowing people under 21 during the tasting.....just a natural reaction to protect your interests when it comes to your job.....
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In a normal business situation treating your customers rudely would seem to be just about the worst thing you can do to "protect your interests" in a service job.
 
Texas Sunset said:
Tumbleweed said:
He may have been just called on the carpet for allowing people under 21 during the tasting.....just a natural reaction to protect your interests when it comes to your job.....
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In a normal business situation treating your customers rudely would seem to be just about the worst thing you can do to "protect your interests" in a service job.
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Not saying he was right....just that he may have been reacting to a reprimand......
 
George B said:
Many states require that the point-of-sale for the alcohol have at least 60% of their sales come from food or other non-alcoholic consumables in order to avoid being classified as a bar. The wine and cheese tasting is almost a purely alcoholic sales event, and therefore is treated as a bar environment, hence the reason under-21s are not allowed.
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Since they're not selling the wine, but instead giving it away, it's pretty easy for Amtrak to meet that 60% threshold. And seeing as how they encourage under 21's to go the the theatre located in the same car that rule cannot be in place here. Heck, even during the wine tasting they have to permit kids to walk through the car. I suspect that this is more just a rule to try to make life easier on the attendants and avoid any potential issues.

Now I can't say that this holds true during the entire year, but many times during the summer the event on the first afternoon out of LA is often sold out or close to it. So they tend to chase anyone, not just under 21's, out of the car if you're not partaking of the event. And in the case of someone clearly over 21 not drinking, if that person was taking up a space that someone who would be drinking needed, that would probably be wrong. But in the OP's case, that was clearly not the case. So there was no good reason to throw the non-drinker out.
 
AlanB said:
George B said:
Many states require that the point-of-sale for the alcohol have at least 60% of their sales come from food or other non-alcoholic consumables in order to avoid being classified as a bar. The wine and cheese tasting is almost a purely alcoholic sales event, and therefore is treated as a bar environment, hence the reason under-21s are not allowed.
Click to expand...
Since they're not selling the wine, but instead giving it away, it's pretty easy for Amtrak to meet that 60% threshold. And seeing as how they encourage under 21's to go the the theatre located in the same car that rule cannot be in place here. Heck, even during the wine tasting they have to permit kids to walk through the car. I suspect that this is more just a rule to try to make life easier on the attendants and avoid any potential issues.

Now I can't say that this holds true during the entire year, but many times during the summer the event on the first afternoon out of LA is often sold out or close to it. So they tend to chase anyone, not just under 21's, out of the car if you're not partaking of the event. And in the case of someone clearly over 21 not drinking, if that person was taking up a space that someone who would be drinking needed, that would probably be wrong. But in the OP's case, that was clearly not the case. So there was no good reason to throw the non-drinker out.
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Amtrak does charge you to participate in the wine and cheese tasking. Even if it was free, California probably still classifies it as a bar environment. If you set up a bar that is giving out free drinks, you still cannot, under law, allow folks under 21 in the bar. The lower level of the car is not considered part of the area where the alcohol is being served. It is just like restaurants that have an open floor plan with a bar at one end. There is no wall separating the dining area from the bar, but under 21s are not allowed to sit in the bar area. The theatre is removed enough from the upper area that it does not have to be cleared of under 21s. It is often up to the licensee to determine what constitutes the bar area, and enforce that strictly. Some things, such as sitting right at the bar are obviously part of the bar.

I don’t know the reasoning at all behind not allowing someone to stay who is not drinking. That must be the attendant’s goofy rule.
 
Wine and cheese tasting on the CS was free when I took it in March. Was it still free, trainman's daughter, when you traveled recently?
 
George B said:
Trainmans daughter said:
amamba said:
Wine and cheese tasting on the CS was free when I took it in March. Was it still free, trainman's daughter, when you traveled recently?
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Yep. It was still free last week when this happened.
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Really? They were charging sleeper passengers last year. Judging by the lack of turnout, I can see why they might have gone back to it being free.
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Yup, they've gone back to free. However, when I did the CS 2 years ago and they were charging, they had almost sold out the wine tasting.
 
George B said:
AlanB said:
George B said:
Many states require that the point-of-sale for the alcohol have at least 60% of their sales come from food or other non-alcoholic consumables in order to avoid being classified as a bar. The wine and cheese tasting is almost a purely alcoholic sales event, and therefore is treated as a bar environment, hence the reason under-21s are not allowed.
Click to expand...
Since they're not selling the wine, but instead giving it away, it's pretty easy for Amtrak to meet that 60% threshold. And seeing as how they encourage under 21's to go the the theatre located in the same car that rule cannot be in place here. Heck, even during the wine tasting they have to permit kids to walk through the car. I suspect that this is more just a rule to try to make life easier on the attendants and avoid any potential issues.

Now I can't say that this holds true during the entire year, but many times during the summer the event on the first afternoon out of LA is often sold out or close to it. So they tend to chase anyone, not just under 21's, out of the car if you're not partaking of the event. And in the case of someone clearly over 21 not drinking, if that person was taking up a space that someone who would be drinking needed, that would probably be wrong. But in the OP's case, that was clearly not the case. So there was no good reason to throw the non-drinker out.
Click to expand...
Amtrak does charge you to participate in the wine and cheese tasking. Even if it was free, California probably still classifies it as a bar environment. If you set up a bar that is giving out free drinks, you still cannot, under law, allow folks under 21 in the bar. The lower level of the car is not considered part of the area where the alcohol is being served. It is just like restaurants that have an open floor plan with a bar at one end. There is no wall separating the dining area from the bar, but under 21s are not allowed to sit in the bar area. The theatre is removed enough from the upper area that it does not have to be cleared of under 21s. It is often up to the licensee to determine what constitutes the bar area, and enforce that strictly. Some things, such as sitting right at the bar are obviously part of the bar.

I don’t know the reasoning at all behind not allowing someone to stay who is not drinking. That must be the attendant’s goofy rule.
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I won't rehash the charge vs free since we've already covered that aspect.

As for bar at one end, that's exactly what Amtrak has. Therefore the same logic is invoked and under 21's don't need to leave the upper area. There are clearly 3 separate and distinct seating areas within the PPC car on the upper level. You have full tables, you have mini tables to hold drinks, and then you have just straight seating. So if we're going to apply the rule that under 21's must not sit at the bar, since the wine tasting generally only uses the first 2 sections, there remains no good reason or law to throw under 21's out of the distinct seating area. They aren't sitting at the bar and they are separated from the actual drinking.
 
Well, then someone will have to take it up with Amtrak if they don’t like how Amtrak defines their bar area. My guess is they got dinged on an inspection and are now fully-enforcing the under 21 rule due to fallout. I know the specifics on how the liquor laws are enforced in my state, but am less familiar with California. Amtrak might be following another set of liquor laws for all I know. But, denying under-21s access to the PPC during the wine event is smart, as it will cover you in most states and keep legal liability down. Most entities don’t intentionally gamble with their liquor license. Losing it would be bad news.

Alright, I give in. I can’t go on with this topic anymore. I don’t condone bad attitudes by Amtrak employees any more than anybody else does here. But, nobody here wants to support the employees when they are trying to do what is right, even though it isn’t what is popular. The attendant the OP had to deal with sounds like someone who could really use some charm lessons. But he was right on the meal reservations and on the under-21s. His attitude could have been a lot better.
 
Are we beating another Dead Horse here? Maybe we should look at it from this perspective - PPC being a Private car ( sleepers), can control hours of operations as well as hold special (Private) parties ( Wine & Cheese). During these private operations, Amtrak has authority/ privilege to invite who they wish ( Sleeper Pax over the age of 21)!?!?!???
 
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