Pacific Parlour Car Rules

I was on the Coast Starlight last week, and spent lots of time in the Pacific Parlour Car. I love this route, and have traveled it many times. The staff has a reputation for being relaxed, friendly, and laid back. but I guess the PPC attendent on this trip didn't get the memo. For example:

* He required each person to produce their reservation slip before he would serve them at lunch and dinner. One person, a really neat 85 year old lady who had traveled many a mile on Amtrak, couldn't find hers. She is digging through her purse saying, "I have never been asked to show my reservation slip. I didn't know it was so important". He snaps back, "Is is important to me!" She finally found it and was served lunch. Now, if he was overwhelmed with diners, I could understand, but he only scheduled a maximum of 4 people at each seating!

* For the wine and cheese tasting event, he cleared the car of anyone under 21 years old. When he told me my granddaughter would have to leave, I said, "On our last ride, our PPC attendent served her a cheese plate accompanied by a nice glass of Martinelli's". He got very serious and said, "That is totally against the rules. Tell me his name so I can report him!". Needless to say, I didn't give any names. (BTW, the movie theater downstairs was out of order, so that wasn't an option for the kids).

*After the Wine and Cheese event was over and we returned to the PPC, our new friends were full or stories about what transpired. A gentleman had been denied service and had been asked to leave because he didn't drink the wine. He is a recovering alcoholic but had wanted to do the cheese tasting. His wife had heroically offered to drink the wine for him, but that was not allowed. "If you don't drink the wine, you can't taste the cheese". He was laughing about it and said, "To be fair, it was announced as "wine AND cheese. So I guess you can't have one without the other!"

So while the guy might have adhered to the letter of the law, no one really appreciated his zeal. I have been on the CS where people were tripping all over each other to buy bottles of wine and PPC souveniers from enthusiastic car attendents, but very few people purchased anything from this poor guy.

So what are the laws and rules regarding meals and tastings on the PPC? Am I being too harsh on this guy?

I've done the CS twice and had wonderful experiences in the PPC, with none of this guy's shenanigans.

Wherever they got this rube, they should toss him back asap.

What was the PPC attendant’s first name? Do you remember? I am familiar with several of the attendants who usually get assigned to the car. But, this guy sounds like he is new to the PPC, and doesn’t realize it is more laid back than the Diner.

Yes, a reservation is required most of the time for lunch and dinner, and attendants will get picky about it from time to time, just like in the Diner. I can understand the guy wanting to verify the reservation with the limited seating in the PPC. But, if the event happened as you described, he could have been a little friendlier about it. On the other hand, I see people try and sneak in on a reservation, or a table from time to time and ignore the rules.

Yes, there should be nobody under 21 in the area of the wine and cheese tasting. The Coast Starlight crew does tend to strictly enforce liquor laws, as it would be easy for them to lose their liquor license, and that would not be good for business. I don’t blame them for being aggressive about this. Fines and fees for violations can be heavy, and the crewmember would likely get fired. Usually the conductor will make an announcement while entering Oregon about the change in liquor laws in that state versus California. I was told that the interstate liquor license Amtrak has is tough to get, and violations threaten their ability to have one. I don’t know if that is true.

I don’t know what to say about the passenger being refused to participate because he wouldn’t drink the wine. Very strange.

I have always had a wonderful experience in the PPC, and the attendants have been wonderful. Several of them, including a gentleman named Greg, went above and beyond what is expected of that position, and we tipped him accordingly.

I too have used the PPC twice and had good experiences both times. Sounds like this guy is another of those Amtrak employees that makes up his own rules as he goes along.

This past May we were on the CS and had all of our meals in the PPC ... not once were we given a reservation slip. We did have to "sign up" with the PPC attendant for a certain time ... but they had our names on a list ... not the reservation slip that we are normally given by the dining car person who comes to our room to take our dining reservation.

 

We have been to over 12 wine tastings on both the CS and the EB .... and I am usually the most popular person at the table, as I don't drink either ... so everyone else gets "a little extra". There has never been any negatives comments directed at me ... usually they just smile .. and a few have asked if I would like something else to drink --- but as I always have a water with me, that has not been necessary. I can understand their 21 and older requirement, but I would think that if you are an adult -- and you have paid for sleeper accommodations -- then you have paid for the cheese and wine tasting!

 

Trainmans daughter ... you are right ... we ALWAYS end up buying something (not wine) at the cheese and wine tasting ... this past May it was CS wine glasses that our PPC attendant would wrap in bubble wrap for everyone.

 

I love the PPC!

I also love the PPC but am not a fan of italics. Not sure why. Just harder to read I guess.

Please include the name of the employee when you get the chance.

I'm anxious to experience the PPC later this year.

Regarding the under 21 years of age in the PPC, why would

it be any different than in the dining car? Wine is served

there with passengers under the age of 21.

How does one reserve for meals in the PPC?

What are the souvenirs available for purchase in he PPC?

Are you usually able to get a reservation for dinner in the PPC?

Shanghai said:

I'm anxious to experience the PPC later this year.

Regarding the under 21 years of age in the PPC, why would

it be any different than in the dining car? Wine is served

there with passengers under the age of 21.

How does one reserve for meals in the PPC?

What are the souvenirs available for purchase in he PPC?

Are you usually able to get a reservation for dinner in the PPC?

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Reservations are done differently. Once you just signed up with the attendant, once the attendant gave slips & another time the LSA came thru your car taking reservations for both the PPC & Diner. Reservations can be tight, depending on the entrees offered.

we have had little martinets from time to time as sca. lsa, coach attendant and parlour car attendant. it detracts from the trip. we have also had memorable amtrak employees. i wish their was someone on the train, other than the conductor, whose job it was to be in charge of the customer service aspect and to whom positive or negative impressions could be reported

The law is the reason that under-21's aren't allowed in during wine tasting. They can walk through, just like walking through the bar section of a restaurant to get to the bathroom. But they cannot sit down. That's the reason that the afternoon movie is kid-friendly. Any LSA who doesn't keep underage kids out is risking his or her job.

I agree that this jerk sounds like a last minute fill in from a NY Diner Crew or a CHI Gate Attendant! :angry: If his Wrong Statement about no-one under 21 was True there couldnt be any children in the Diner, Lounge or Cafe Car where Alcohol is Sold and Consumed! (Of course giving alcohol to someone under 21 is a Violation of most Stae Laws)I would definitely report this guy to Customer Relations and also write a Letter to Joe Boardmans Office in Washington, we don't need People like this on Amtrak! :help: Doing your job is one thing, having an Attitude and making up Rules is another! :excl: :excl: :excl:

George B said:

The Coast Starlight crew does tend to strictly enforce liquor laws, as it would be easy for them to lose their liquor license, and that would not be good for business. I don’t blame them for being aggressive about this. Fines and fees for violations can be heavy, and the crewmember would likely get fired.

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Amtrak doesn't need a liquor license from Oregon or any state.

Amtrak does tend to follow to some extent the local state liquor laws, but they don't need a license.

And in just about any state that I know of, children are allowed in a bar with their parents if they are sitting at a table where food is served. Children cannot sit a the actual bar on a stool, but they are permitted at a table.

The tastings are popular, so it may be they would rather save seats for participating adults!?!

jimhudson said:

we don't need People like this on Amtrak! :help: Doing your job is one thing, having an Attitude and making up Rules is another! :excl: :excl: :excl:

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This is what gives amtrak a bad name. they keep hiring bad employees. it seams like amtrak has more bad employees then good. they don´t have enough supervisors who actually do there jobs either. For those who say the resevation was a big deal there was only 6 people in the car.He had no right to deny the old gentlemen the cheese just cause he didn´t want the wine. His wire offered to drink both glasses but he had to be a real jackass and refuse. We don´t need employees thinking they are above the rules and can make up rules as they go along.

Shanghai said:

I'm anxious to experience the PPC later this year.

Regarding the under 21 years of age in the PPC, why would

it be any different than in the dining car? Wine is served

there with passengers under the age of 21.

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I am not very familiar with liquor laws…especially the ones in California. Usually the differentiation comes from the control point (who is actually pouring the alcohol and has control of the original container), and whether or not meal service is being provided (some states require a certain percentage of an activity be related to food sales to differentiate between a restaurant license and a bar license).

So, my guess is that since the wine and cheese tasting is not part of a meal service (the cheese does not count as meal service), it falls under the bar license, and therefore is treated as a bar environment.

I looked up the violation penalties in California and they can yank ALL of your liquor licenses temporarily for the first violation.

AlanB said:

George B said:

The Coast Starlight crew does tend to strictly enforce liquor laws, as it would be easy for them to lose their liquor license, and that would not be good for business. I don’t blame them for being aggressive about this. Fines and fees for violations can be heavy, and the crewmember would likely get fired.

Click to expand...

Amtrak doesn't need a liquor license from Oregon or any state.

Amtrak does tend to follow to some extent the local state liquor laws, but they don't need a license.

And in just about any state that I know of, children are allowed in a bar with their parents if they are sitting at a table where food is served. Children cannot sit a the actual bar on a stool, but they are permitted at a table.

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Not true. You are required to have a liquor license in the State of California to sell or serve alcohol. Period. Even airlines that sell alcohol while flying over California are required to have a state liquor license. Some airlines and transportation entities don’t bother to get the license, and they may never get caught, but when there is an alcohol-related death or injury, they can get sued like you wouldn’t believe.

AlanB said:

Amtrak doesn't need a liquor license from Oregon or any state.

Amtrak does tend to follow to some extent the local state liquor laws, but they don't need a license.

And in just about any state that I know of, children are allowed in a bar with their parents if they are sitting at a table where food is served. Children cannot sit a the actual bar on a stool, but they are permitted at a table.

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The question of whether Amtrak or airlines need liquor licenses is not clear. However, Amtrak and airlines obtain liquor licenses for all the states in which they operate. They do this as a courtesy and to avoid potential litigation that could confirm the states right to regulate sales on trains and planes. Similarly, most states do not impose all the restrictions of regular retail outlets on the carriers, also to avoid litigation that might find their rights limited.

The problem is the 21st Amendment - the amendment that repealed prohibition. Section 2 of the 21st Amendment specifically gave the states complete control over the importation and sale of intoxicating beverages. That states feel that extends to sales by interstate transportation carriers. Opposing that is the right of the federal government to regulate interstate commerce. The carriers feel this includes the regulation of passenger services, including liquor sales. To keep legal peace, carriers get state liquor licenses.

But why are under 21s allowed in the snack bar, where there is beer, wine n booze, like someone else stated, under 21s are allowed in the dining car. This sounds like an arrogant employee trying to be the boss of his private domain and prove he is in charge. This can not be blamed on liquor laws. This guy was a jerk.

We were on the PPC last fall and it was WONDERFUL. We had the attendent Alan who was pictured in the Amtrak 40th Anniversary book. He was GREAT! It was SO laid back. Having a turd like the one we are talking about here would have put a damper on what was a wonderful honeymoon trip on Amtrak.

It was perfectly acceptable to sit next to kids and drink wine, Bloody Mary's, etc all day long in the PPC except during the Wine/Cheese event. At that time anyone under 21 had to leave the entire car, even the easy chair section where there was no wine tasting taking place.

If this is the law, I have no problem with it; but on previous trips this hadn't been an issue. This guy's attitude is what got me--demanding the name of the nice attendent who had served my granddaughter Martinelli's and cheese so he could report him.

zepherdude said:

But why are under 21s allowed in the snack bar, where there is beer, wine n booze, like someone else stated, under 21s are allowed in the dining car. This sounds like an arrogant employee trying to be the boss of his private domain and prove he is in charge. This can not be blamed on liquor laws. This guy was a jerk.

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Many states require that the point-of-sale for the alcohol have at least 60% of their sales come from food or other non-alcoholic consumables in order to avoid being classified as a bar. The wine and cheese tasting is almost a purely alcoholic sales event, and therefore is treated as a bar environment, hence the reason under-21s are not allowed.

Amtrak does not have a reputation for the most customer-service oriented employees by far, but several people in this forum just can’t wait to start bashing Amtrak employees without considering the situation or the other side. I appreciate that the OP posted the incident here with the intention of wanting to find out more info, instead of just bashing the employee endlessly.

Would calling Amtrak's customer service people and asking what the rules are provide any insight? Would the people at the other end of the phone be able to provide any information?

Just more anecdotal evidence that Trainmans daughter's PPC attendant was veering into the tyrannical role of the Almighty Attendant. I rode the Starlight over the past two days and had a lovely attendant named Carmella. Just as with every other meal I have had there and in the Dining Car, no mention of needing a ticket stub was made. I ride the Starlight on a pretty regular basis, and I will say that Carmella did make announcements on both days about being 21 for the wine tastings, something I don't recall hearing during past trips. Perhaps management issued a recent directive about this.

But as for the tyrannical PPC attendant, please report him with all relevant details as soon as possible. In these situations, the best thing we can do for Amtrak's future is bring these miscreants to the attention of management and start the paper trail documenting the employee's misconduct.

zepherdude said:

But why are under 21s allowed in the snack bar, where there is beer, wine n booze, like someone else stated, under 21s are allowed in the dining car. This sounds like an arrogant employee trying to be the boss of his private domain and prove he is in charge. This can not be blamed on liquor laws. This guy was a jerk.

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I agree, the guy sounds like a jerk! But on my recent PPC eperience 2 weeks ago, both on the #11 & #14, it was announced on the IC that no one under 21 years of age was allowed to participate!!!