What are the exact evils of the Baltimore Tunnels?

Is it not possible for Amtrak to what ConRail did to the Gallitzen tunnels during the rehab to make them enabled to accommodate larger trains, namely, to remove all present surfaces in each of the 3 or 4 Baltimore bores, enlarge the height and width, and reseal them with brand new steel and concrete? Or am I starting to sound like a structural engineer wannabee chewing a pack of bubblegum after drinking heavily?

But seriously, in figuring out the bad things, I hear of speed reductions to 30mph as the biggie. Is it flooding that constantly weakens the trackbed? Sharp curves? The walls are so weak that collapse is a concern?

NE933 said:

Sharp curves?

Click to expand...

This, and there's no fix for that without a new tunnel.

Wasn't there a serious fire in that tunnel a few years ago?

You're probably thinking of the Howard Street tunnel:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Street_Tunnel_fire

That's the freight tunnel, the B&P is the passenger tunnel (along with the Union tunnel north of the station).

Edit: While reading about the topic, I came acrossthis:

The grade on the electrified portion was downhill to Camden Station; therefore traffic heading southbound ("westbound", in B&O timetables), from Mount Royal Station, simply drifted through the tunnels. Since the engine was not working, the smoke produced was relatively light. Going upgrade northbound ("eastbound", in B&O timetables) the electric locomotives were coupled to the front of the train at Camden Station and pulled the entire train, including the steam locomotive, through the Howard Street tunnel. When northbound passenger trains stopped at Mt. Royal Station at the north end of the tunnel, the electric locomotive was uncoupled. Northbound freight trains were pulled by electric locomotives for another two miles, until reaching Huntingdon Avenue in east Baltimore. There the steam locomotive closed its cylinder cocks, took up the load, and the electric locomotive uncoupled on the fly, accelerating ahead to a pocket siding between the tracks.[3]

Click to expand...

I really would have liked to see that last part in person! Can't really do that today!

Shanghai said:

Wasn't there a serious fire in that tunnel a few years ago?

Click to expand...

I remember a flood, but not a fire.

Shanghai said:

Wasn't there a serious fire in that tunnel a few years ago?

Click to expand...

No, the fire (circa 2001) was in the Howard Street tunnel used by CSX when a freight train derailed. The accident and the closing of parts of downtown Baltimore for several days is part of the reason for several FRA studies and the desire to replace both the NEC B&P tunnel and the Howard Street tunnel with new tunnels in west Baltimore. A goal for a new freight tunnel and route through Baltimore would be to provide clearance for double stack containers. The goal for the B&P tunnel replacement would be to reduce WAS-NYP trip times by several minutes. I think Baltimore and MD are interested in re-using the Howard Street tunnel for a light rail/metro route through Baltimore.

The good news is that the $60 million awarded to the Preliminary Engineering and EIS studies on replacing the B&P tunnel in the HSIPR stimulus grants was finally obligated and released last week. $60 million may sound like a lot for PE, but this would be several parallel tunnels under a densely populated urban area. The PE would presumably include soil samples, test borings, detailed surveys of all buildings, underground infrastructure, and geology on the alternate routes to find out what the tunnel might run into or what building foundations might have to be shored up.

First to replace the existing tunnel on a nearby alignment does almost nothing for run time. A large vision that would result in a new line completely across Baltimore is the only thing that would do anything meaningful for run time.

Second: The Gallatzin tunnels were closed for the enlargement. Thanks to the Pennsylvania RR's development of a four thrack main line, there were parallel tunnels at the location of all tunnel enlargements. This would not be possible for the B&P tunnels in Baltimore. From what I have heard, the enlargement was another example of no vision. Megabucks were spent on the enlargements, but the increase stopped short of that needed to install electrification.

I wrote about the Baltimore bottleneck issues a few years ago. Not much has changed since then.

The relevant parts are linked below.

• Washington's rails, part 3: Maryland's wish list This one talks about the passenger tunnel alignments.
• Washington's rails, part 5: Unbottlenecking Baltimore This one talks about replacing the Howard Street Tunnel and B&P Tunnels.

Tracktwentynine said:

I wrote about the Baltimore bottleneck issues a few years ago. Not much has changed since then.

The relevant parts are linked below.

• Washington's rails, part 3: Maryland's wish list This one talks about the passenger tunnel alignments.
• Washington's rails, part 5: Unbottlenecking Baltimore This one talks about replacing the Howard Street Tunnel and B&P Tunnels.

Click to expand...

I will have to ask Matt Johnson, who I know, why he insists on mis-spelling Winans Interlocking as Wynans Interlocking. Afterall it is named after Ross Winans, a rather well known luminary around Baltimore, with considerable contribution to railroading.

jis said:

Tracktwentynine said:

I wrote about the Baltimore bottleneck issues a few years ago. Not much has changed since then.

The relevant parts are linked below.

• Washington's rails, part 3: Maryland's wish list This one talks about the passenger tunnel alignments.
• Washington's rails, part 5: Unbottlenecking Baltimore This one talks about replacing the Howard Street Tunnel and B&P Tunnels.

Click to expand...

I will have to ask Matt Johnson, who I know, why he insists on mis-spelling Winans Interlocking as Wynans Interlocking. Afterall it is named after Ross Winans, a rather well known luminary around Baltimore, with considerable contribution to railroading.

Click to expand...

I'm a different Matt Johnson.

Tracktwentynine said:

jis said:

Tracktwentynine said:

I wrote about the Baltimore bottleneck issues a few years ago. Not much has changed since then.

The relevant parts are linked below.

• Washington's rails, part 3: Maryland's wish list This one talks about the passenger tunnel alignments.
• Washington's rails, part 5: Unbottlenecking Baltimore This one talks about replacing the Howard Street Tunnel and B&P Tunnels.

Click to expand...

I will have to ask Matt Johnson, who I know, why he insists on mis-spelling Winans Interlocking as Wynans Interlocking. Afterall it is named after Ross Winans, a rather well known luminary around Baltimore, with considerable contribution to railroading.

Click to expand...

I'm a different Matt Johnson.

Click to expand...

Anyway, the other intersting thing about Winans is that he was mostly a B&O guy, having set up his shop by the B&O Mount Claire works, and yet the arch rival PRR chose to name an interlocking after him. I guess it had to do with his general railroad contributions, since his shenanigans during the Civil War couldn't have endeared him too much to the North

To be fair, I learned most of what I know about Winans yesterday at the Civil War exhibit in the B&O Railroad Museum! He was quite a character!