Cardinal service improvements

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kentuckian1977

Service Attendant
Joined
Apr 7, 2010
Messages
126
Location
Somerset, Kentucky
Just wondering if anyone had heard anything recently as to the proposed service improvements for the Cardinal. Certainly would like to see the daily service become a reality, and while perhaps farther fetched (or perhaps not, who knows) it would also be great if they were to go through with the idea of purchasing and using a heritage dome on the train.
 
Senator Byrd is dead. After mourning is complete, his train will follow him. Forget about improvements. Watch for those 180 day discontinuance of service notices.
 
As much as I would like to agree with you GML (
ohmy.gif
perish the thought
ohmy.gif
), I think the Cardinal will stay - maybe as a 3 day/week train. The Cardinal's route is really the easiest way for cars from the east to get to BG. Otherwise, they have to go through CHI.
 
Despite what GML may fantasize about, there are no plans to discontinue the train. Talks are ongoing with the railroads involved to work out a daily schedule.
 
It is not my fantasy to discontinue the Cardinal. I hope it continues as a daily train serving the many isolated communities to which it is vital. I just doubt it will outlast its patron by much time.
 
I sure hope the talks go better than the daily Screaming Eagle to LAX are going...
Hopefully CSX won't want Amtrak to rebuild its entire railroad from Chicago to Washington as UP is demanding with the Sunset.
At least they would not be able to ask for rebuilding the Orange to CP AF segment since that belongs to NS. :lol: And fortunately CSX does not have an enormous amount of traffic on much of the route used by the Card, which has its pluses and minuses of course, but at least they cannot carp about train inteference as much.

OTOH, the biggest trackage risk to the Card at present I believe is Buckingham Branch RR. Hopefully some funding will materialize from somewhere to fix up that puppy. The worst of it is between Charlottesville and Orange,
 
I sure hope the talks go better than the daily Screaming Eagle to LAX are going...
Hopefully CSX won't want Amtrak to rebuild its entire railroad from Chicago to Washington as UP is demanding with the Sunset.
At least they would not be able to ask for rebuilding the Orange to CP AF segment since that belongs to NS. :lol: And fortunately CSX does not have an enormous amount of traffic on much of the route used by the Card, which has its pluses and minuses of course, but at least they cannot carp about train inteference as much.

OTOH, the biggest trackage risk to the Card at present I believe is Buckingham Branch RR. Hopefully some funding will materialize from somewhere to fix up that puppy. The worst of it is between Charlottesville and Orange,
IIRC, the CSXT received millions to upgrade crossings and expand sidings BEFORE the Sunset could leave NOL heading eastward.The irony of the whole situation was there was little 79 mph territory as most of it is dark territory; I can distinctly remember swaying back and forth on many stretches at 40 mph or less. I'm sure the CSXT is using those expanded sidings and improved grade crossing signals on a daily basis but I haven't heard of the CSXT compensating Amtrak for them...sounds like another CCC blunder. I know~ Sunset East~ forget about it! :angry2:
 
The only danger the Cardinal really faces is if there's a severe shortage of rolling stock. Then Amtrak might shut down a "redundant" route to pillage it for more equipment on other routes. As a tri-weekly, the Cardinal would be an easy one to shut down. The Cardinal has been vulnerable to this before.
 
OTOH, the biggest trackage risk to the Card at present I believe is Buckingham Branch RR. Hopefully some funding will materialize from somewhere to fix up that puppy. The worst of it is between Charlottesville and Orange,
As stated in the Amtrak Cardinal report: "Buckingham Branch Railroad is doing a major crosstie replacement and track-surfacing

program that will eliminate many slow orders." Virginia DRPT is providing some funding to Buckingham Branch and other shortline railroads in the state for track and maintenance repairs from the state rail funds. This is a multi-year program with incremental funding, so the track work is presumably done in incremental stages.

A google search turned up a Virginia DRPT document from 2009, shows a 6 year cycle funding need for BB track and grade work as $20.5 million. See http://www.drpt.virginia.gov/activities/files/Appendix%20C%20Shortline%20Tech%20Memo.pdf. Pages 24-25 list the BB projects. How much of that was or has been funded in the wake of state budget cuts, don't know.
 
I don't see Cardinal service improvements happening until if or when new equipment is available. The Cardinal is a small consist and due to its long schedule cannot be turned around to operate on a return trip on the following day. Therefore new equipment will be needed; can you spell another whole train? As for the service continuing, it is the only route that serves Indianapolis and Memphis and the only route through Central West Virgina. It also appears to be a busy route as 100% of the sleepers are constantly sold out and the coaches are well used. The Cardinal is being marketed as Amtraks Eastern scenic route and it is. It should hang on by a thread and perhaps because Gasoline is headed to $5 per gallon very soon.
 
The Cardinal does not serve Memphis, nor any other location in Tennessee.
 
It also appears to be a busy route as 100% of the sleepers are constantly sold out and the coaches are well used.
100% of the sleepers are sold out, because the Cardinal only operates 3 days a week, but there is only ONE sleeper! That means on each train, there are

  • 1 H-Room
  • 2 Bedrooms, and
  • 12 bedrooms

In addition to paying passengers, some of those rooms are also used by the OBS crew!
rolleyes.gif
 
It also appears to be a busy route as 100% of the sleepers are constantly sold out and the coaches are well used.
100% of the sleepers are sold out, because the Cardinal only operates 3 days a week, but there is only ONE sleeper! That means on each train, there are

  • 1 H-Room
  • 2 Bedrooms, and
  • 12 bedrooms

In addition to paying passengers, some of those rooms are also used by the OBS crew!
rolleyes.gif
I believe normally there are only 8 Roomettes available for commercial use. Well maybe 9 if it is running real short on the Coach side.
 
OTOH, the biggest trackage risk to the Card at present I believe is Buckingham Branch RR. Hopefully some funding will materialize from somewhere to fix up that puppy. The worst of it is between Charlottesville and Orange,
As stated in the Amtrak Cardinal report: "Buckingham Branch Railroad is doing a major crosstie replacement and track-surfacing

program that will eliminate many slow orders." Virginia DRPT is providing some funding to Buckingham Branch and other shortline railroads in the state for track and maintenance repairs from the state rail funds. This is a multi-year program with incremental funding, so the track work is presumably done in incremental stages.

A google search turned up a Virginia DRPT document from 2009, shows a 6 year cycle funding need for BB track and grade work as $20.5 million. See http://www.drpt.virginia.gov/activities/files/Appendix%20C%20Shortline%20Tech%20Memo.pdf. Pages 24-25 list the BB projects. How much of that was or has been funded in the wake of state budget cuts, don't know.
The last time I rode the Cardinal we were stopped at a siding, so a "BB local could run from Clifton Forge to Staunton, have lunch, then turn around and come back" That's EXACTLY how it was announced to the passengers... all while we sat just east of Clifton Forge twiddling our thumbs. We had been early into Clifton Forge, we ended up 2 hours late to Charlottesville, where I connected to Richmond. I despise Buckingham Branch with a holy passion nowdays.
 
The only danger the Cardinal really faces is if there's a severe shortage of rolling stock. Then Amtrak might shut down a "redundant" route to pillage it for more equipment on other routes. As a tri-weekly, the Cardinal would be an easy one to shut down. The Cardinal has been vulnerable to this before.
Unless things have changed, the Cardinal would be one of the most difficult routes to shut down, because it is the only Amtrak route specifically mandated by law. Terminating the Cardinal requires an act of Congress.
 
I think that was changed years ago. In anycase, I keep hearing murmurs from some quarters that if the Cardinal is not shut down, it will be renamed for the third time- as the Robert Byrd.
 
To respectfully disagree with our forum member, the Green Manned Lion, let me quote the numbers posted by our fellow traveler Anderson in another post. The passgenger numbers for the Cardinal route for the last fiscal year are 125,359, up from 107,053. If we do the math and assume that the Cardinal makes 310 trips a years that 404 passengers per run. Thats a full house on just about every train and 17% growth just during the last year. The Cardinal also serves the rural travelers and goes through some areas that are miles away from an airport. If anything the consist needs to be badly increased to meet the demand. Amtrak would have to be out of their mind to kill the service.
 
You make a stupid mistake of thinking ridership will make a train run. Many people anti rail think thus: Amtrak loses X per passenger, each passenger costs us X, therefore, removing 117000 passengers saves us 117000X dollars a year. DPA had a conversation with an Amtrak California guy who thought this. He said "let's take this to it's logical conclusion, we run no trains, carry no passengers, and you can retire early without a Pension!"
 
You make a stupid mistake of thinking ridership will make a train run. Many people anti rail think thus: Amtrak loses X per passenger, each passenger costs us X, therefore, removing 117000 passengers saves us 117000X dollars a year. DPA had a conversation with an Amtrak California guy who thought this. He said "let's take this to it's logical conclusion, we run no trains, carry no passengers, and you can retire early without a Pension!"
I get your point but in the real world more customers and higher revenue is usually good news. By the logic that you present there is also a case to be made about forbidding and eliminating more vehicles on the highways and more flights at the airport to save money. It should be pointed out that airline, bus and car passengers are also recipients of the transportation budget subsidy.

What I don't understand is why some politicans single out Amtrak when the rail subsidy cost also applies to all other forms of transportation.
 
What I don't understand is why some politicans single out Amtrak when the rail subsidy cost also applies to all other forms of transportation.
Because "Nobody rides trains anymore"!
rolleyes.gif
If Amtrak growth continues on its present course; in two years you won't even be able to get a seat. Some routes like the NE corridor are already so full during the week that you can hardly find a seat and at times its standing room only.
 
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