Conductor arrested

A Caltrain conductor contracted from Amtrak, has been arrested for falsely imprisoning several female passengers, and other incidents of misconduct, reports the Bay City News.

... has been charged with two felony counts of false imprisonment, one misdemeanor count of annoying or molesting a child under age 18, one felony count of contact with a minor with intent to commit a crime and one misdemeanor count of soliciting to engage in lewd conduct.

...

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local-beat/Caltrain-Conductor-Arrested-113425359.html

That is ever so vague.

Green Maned Lion said:

That is ever so vague.

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Ahh, GML, did you and I read the same news report? I see nothing vague about it. He's innocent 'til proven guilty, but nothing vague at all.

I loved this line thou, ".........used his position of authority to take the victims to secluded parts of the train................"

When I was a teenager 15, or 16, traveling alone, I had a guy, who was deadheading, sense my interest in trains. He asked if I wanted to go up and see the dorm car, I said sure. When we got up there, he got out some porno mags,........it gets better.........as soon as he said to me "You know, men know how to please men better than women..........." Well, let's just say I could have won the hundred yard dash that afternoon.

It really shook me up as a kid. I was pissed off that he did that, or "tried" to do that, and later I was more pissed that I never told anyone, but then again, nothing happened, and who would they believe, and what would have I said? Dunno.

But because Amtrak is so large, and employs so many people, there are bound to be perverts around. Just like society in general I guess.

Me thinking "Throw Mamma From The Train" would have been appropriate, just replace Momma with Deadhead Guy.

I have a theory, with limited actual facts backing it up, of the following:

1) Rape/sexual molestation is just as prevalent as we think it is.

2) Anybody who ever accuses someone of raping/sexually molesting them is not a victim of said crime.

Because whenever I post or say something based upon my natural inclination not to trust events the way they are purported to happen when reported on a news source, I AWLAYS get someone who said, "Not so fast, GML, I had a similar experience way back when, not that I ever said anything about it."

I also, contrarywise, remember a time wayback when in middle school. Girl I knew, tragic story, her very close and dearly loved aunt died. Her teacher, male, told her the news. She was so upset, crying and carrying on and so on, that the man put his arms around her in a comforting gesture. I was witnessing this, and I do have a dirty mind, so I was looking, and this teacher was not even mildly sexually aroused.

She didn't seem to be all that happy with the embrace, but my inference is that her own father/mother couldn't have provided her with an embrace she would have liked at that point in time. And I failed to see anything I'd regard as struggling. More like a cat being held that didn't want it particularly but decided to put up with it.

The girl and her family proceeded to sue and charge this man with sexual assault, taking advantage of a minor and so on. I watched it happen with my own two eyes, and if their was a sexual assault, I'm Jack Daniels.

Again, with limited facts to back up my assertion, I am always distrustful of public assertions of sexual misconduct, and I often believe they happen where people think they don't. It is so very easy for conduct that is well intentioned but possibly not desired to occur to someone who has a difficult time expressing their dislike. I don't consider that inappropriate conduct unless the person performing it, as a reasonably competent observer of human beings, could reasonably tell their "victim" objected to it.

Because what I have seen on occasion is an awkward person doing something that another awkward person doesn't love all that much, but whose objection is so muted and obfuscated, I can only recognize its presence in hind sight. Then the person so affected runs home and screams "RAPE RAPE RAPE" to someone they trust. Not that the person screaming didn't see it that way, they probably very much did.

But they saw it that way because they don't know what its really like to be treated inappropriately, and they were uncomfortable about it. And more so, they are even more uncomfortable with the fact that they were unable to articulate their negative desire in a way that the person interacting with them could understand. They then become convinced that they did do so, and the person didn't listen.

They didn't listen because they couldn't hear. My definition of sexual misconduct/harassment, the point where it becomes criminal is the point at which the reasonable person can determine that the "victim" doesn't like what is occurring and continues anyway. Sexual assault is the point at which the aggressor continues with the intention to harm the victim. Rape is what you can figure it would be along that line.

People who are actually disgusted, actually degraded, actually forced beyond where they are comfortable being by someone acting with malign intentions, are too upset and embarrassed to ever talk about it with anyone but, perhaps, their closest and dearest. And never to the public authorities, dear god no.

So like I say, I'm skeptical and consider the account vague.

Well, you did a good job of explaining your views, I have to give you that. I think, no, I won't write that. Anyway, let's agree to disagree, but also remember that we have many things in common. We both like riding trains!

Lion, did you really mean to say everyone who reports rape or molestation is lying? Are you sure about that?

Well, GML, on this one I am definitely not in wholehearted agreement with you.

Yes, the press gets it wrong. In fact for every incident of which I have had first-hand knowledge, I cannot think of a time they hve ever got it right. That is not even counting the deliberate twists of facts or selective choosing of facts and data to fit a predetermined agenda. That happens a lot also.

However, I am not about to say that someone making accusations of rape/sexual assault and such like is automatically either outright lying or misrepresenting the situation. Yoor last paragraph is, for many cases, simply dead wrong.

Yes, the type of activity / situation that you describe does happen, but because it does, that does not mean that this is the only situation under which charges are brought. there are definitely a lot of people that look fro grounds to sue and people with the potential to make big payouts to brign suit against.

I know of a situation where a group of high school girls after graduating went to talk to the prinicpal about a particular teacher being a little too "handy". The first thing they said was, we decided to wait until now to say this so no one could think we were trying to gain advantage by making false accusations, and we decided that we could put up with it until school was out. The whole thing was handled quietly. Only because I knew some of the involved adults, not including the teacher being accused, did I even know these incidents happened. If it had become a court issue, then the girls involved were willing to testify, but it never went that way.

What is highly likely is that, when you see someone actually taken to trial for various sexual assaults, particularly child molestation, there is an excellent chance the person is not guilty. The truly guilty will generally try to make a deal, plead to a lesser charge, or some such. Basically, anything to avoid a trial and the publicity and potential for a long sentence. This is not my opinion, but a known fact in this area. Chances are the guy that says, go light on me and I will tell you who else in involved is in reality the guilty and the people he names completely innocent. There are known cases of this, one quite well know, but my mind blanks on the when and where right now.

Your definition is just that. Your definition, not necessarily or even likely to be either the legal definition or the definition of that of the people involved.

A little more:

I am inclined to agree with the GML that the charges are a little vague. However, that is probably both deliberate and necessary at this point. Anything more and there would be the possibility that there would be people coming out of the woodwork claiming that he did likewise to them.

"Secluded part of the train" is somewhat interesting. I ride these trains a couple to three times per week, round trips. The only secluded part of the train I can think of would be the engineer's compartment for use when trains are operated in the push direction. These spaces aren't exactly huge.

If there had been a collision this would have trumped the Chatsworth crash in creepiness. Instead of texting a young railfan, the headlines would be, "TRAIN CRASHES WHILE CONDUCTOR MOLESTS GIRL."

Haha what a world we live in.

Spokker said:

If there had been a collision this would have trumped the Chatsworth crash in creepiness. Instead of texting a young railfan, the headlines would be, "TRAIN CRASHES WHILE CONDUCTOR MOLESTS GIRL."

Haha what a world we live in.

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Whats so creepy about teenagers and an engineer being friends because they both like trains?

George Harris said:

A little more:

I am inclined to agree with the GML that the charges are a little vague. However, that is probably both deliberate and necessary at this point. Anything more and there would be the possibility that there would be people coming out of the woodwork claiming that he did likewise to them.

"Secluded part of the train" is somewhat interesting. I ride these trains a couple to three times per week, round trips. The only secluded part of the train I can think of would be the engineer's compartment for use when trains are operated in the push direction. These spaces aren't exactly huge.

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I disagree. The charges are not a little vague at all but they are very specific. I would agree that the story is light on facts which at this point it should be. I would bet that NBC 11 wrote their story based off of a copy of the criminal complaint alone which if you have never read a criminal complaint are generally very light on the facts of the case as it is the initial charging document. More facts would come out at the defendant's preliminary hearing and even more at trial if it goes that far.

George Harris said:

"Secluded part of the train" is somewhat interesting. I ride these trains a couple to three times per week, round trips. The only secluded part of the train I can think of would be the engineer's compartment for use when trains are operated in the push direction. These spaces aren't exactly huge.

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The "secluded part of the train" intrigued me as well. Up until that point, it wasn't entirely clear to me that the alleged incidents took place aboard the train.

Without more information, it would be hard to know where these secluded areas are but I don't think there are that many on the Bombardier and gallery cars that Caltrain uses.

There are more stories out there about this case. In one of the more detailed accounts, KTVU reported that Cano allegedly took one of the women into a "fireman's cab" on the upper level of a car on a northbound train at Palo Alto. I would guess that that's a reference to the cab in a cab car.

Although no contact reportedly took place, the allegation that Cano locked the cab door before making his proposition sounds unseemly, especially from an authority figure.

GML, the reason many people don't report acts of rape or other types of sexual molestation is because sadly, many people have an attitude like you. How sad and terrible for victims of sexual violence to not only be victims of a terrible act of cruelty, but then to suffer because people doubt their stories? I personally know several victims of rape and sexual violence, and yes, those events actually happened to them. Luckily they were met with support in their lives and not immediate doubt from those around them about the events that transpired.

I don't have them handy, but there are lots of statistics out there that estimate that a large percentage of sexual assaults and rapes go unreported, because the victims are embarrassed or don't want to have to deal with people that automatically doubt them.

I will say that there have recently been examples of false accusations, and those are pretty awful. Duke lacrosse is one that immediately comes to mind. False accusations are equally as reprehensible as actual acts of sexual violence IMO.

amamba said:

I will say that there have recently been examples of false accusations, and those are pretty awful. Duke lacrosse is one that immediately comes to mind. False accusations are equally as reprehensible as actual acts of sexual violence IMO.

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And: Even after conclusively proven false a certain amount of the mud sticks and there will be people that forever thereafter look at you with suspicion.

ALC_Rail_Writer said:

Spokker said:

If there had been a collision this would have trumped the Chatsworth crash in creepiness. Instead of texting a young railfan, the headlines would be, "TRAIN CRASHES WHILE CONDUCTOR MOLESTS GIRL."

Haha what a world we live in.

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Whats so creepy about teenagers and an engineer being friends because they both like trains?

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That has "CREEPY" written ALL over it ALC, can't u see that?

rrdude said:

ALC_Rail_Writer said:

Spokker said:

If there had been a collision this would have trumped the Chatsworth crash in creepiness. Instead of texting a young railfan, the headlines would be, "TRAIN CRASHES WHILE CONDUCTOR MOLESTS GIRL."

Haha what a world we live in.

Click to expand...

Whats so creepy about teenagers and an engineer being friends because they both like trains?

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That has "CREEPY" written ALL over it ALC, can't u see that?

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I don't know how I actually feel about the word "creepy." Back when I was a kid and after my dad died, many adult men served as mentors to me. But these are different days. Most organizations have rules or guidelines stipulating that adults should not be alone with unrelated minors. Whether or not the conductor did anything wrong will be left up to the courts - but in today's environment being alone in a private place with an unrelated minor may show a lack of discretion.

cavanaugh said:

Lion, did you really mean to say everyone who reports rape or molestation is lying? Are you sure about that?

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Not only did I not mean that, I didn't say that. Read over what I said slowly before assuming.

George Harris said:

*removed for space reasons*

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I pointedly said that it was a theory, and caveated I had a very limited basis for it, and I did that for a reason. Now, I made a mistake, in that I used an absolute in my writing. I should have said "many people" instead of "anybody" for instance.

However, I am still convinced in the overall jist of what I said. What would it take to disprove this in my mind? Some real first hand data proving me otherwise, such as a girl I am friends with and trusting telling me otherwise and then going to court about it.

amamba said:

GML, the reason many people don't report acts of rape or other types of sexual molestation is because sadly, many people have an attitude like you.

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I roll my eyes at people involved in stories in newspapers as they are generally trumped up and inaccurate. I maintain my theories in private and explain them when someone asks me why I said something they don't understand, as in this instance.

In person, I judge people based upon that person and only that person. Most people are generally put on this planet as tools for the few people bright enough to use them, and therefore what happens to them is not even remotely interesting to me.

I bet some people on here wonder what I think of them. With a few exceptions the answer is: I don't think of you!

If I don't think of them, I can't imagine why they'd think of me. If they don't report rapes or molestations because they worry what somebody who neither knows or cares about their existence thinks about them, they are so lost, the crime is not one of their larger issues.

If one of the people I really cared about was sexually molested or raped, the perpetrator wouldn't be going to trial. They'd be going to the bottom of a finger lake in cement shoes. Someone I knew and trusted told me they were raped or molested, I'd believe them. If I didn't trust them, I wouldn't care one way or another.

I honestly don't think that people like me are a problem to anyone. Because there is only one person like me. Unless you mean people as independently minded as me, in which case we're too disorganized and resigned to a rotten world to mount a problem for anyone.

By the by, the story is the definition of vague. Without leaving out any really relevant facts, let me sum it up:

Conductor lead several females individually to a secluded area of the train where he proceeded to make them uncomfortable. They then complained to authorities about misconduct.

Vague.

There is no point in arguing with someone whose mind is already made up. My point is that there are many people, who have already suffered the indignity of a sexual assault, that they don't report it because they can't bear the thought of having to a) constantly relive the assault over the trial and b) because some people will doubt the veracity of their story, which will bring more pain to them.

Upon further reflection, I actually get that you are agreeing with me in some ways - that many people that suffer from these types of crimes DON'T report them. I guess where we differ is that I think that one of the reasons these crimes are unreported is because often times, men - like you - doubt the women that report them. Rather than deal with this, women keep the crimes close to them. I guess what I would hope for is a situation where women (and MEN) that suffer from rape feel comfortable enough to report them, where they won't be made to feel like a victim multiple times by law enforcement, etc. But the victims that DO often show bravery and courage by reporting their crimes often face doubt, and that is a shame. But at the end of the day, I think we are kind of saying the same thing. I guess where we differ is that I automatically don't doubt anyone that reports such a crime. I think these crimes are very under-reported, which is a sad thing.

Green Maned Lion said:

By the by, the story is the definition of vague. Without leaving out any really relevant facts, let me sum it up:

Conductor lead several females individually to a secluded area of the train where he proceeded to make them uncomfortable. They then complained to authorities about misconduct.

Vague.

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Maybe it's vague to protect the defendant and not taint the jury pool should this case go to trial...

I really wish people would spend more time and energy talking about railroads and such instead of gratuitously assassinating each others characters. Some appear to spend way more energy on the latter than the former which surprises me. But I guess each has their mission in life and they differ from one to the other hboy:

I agree with jis. I come here to talk trains, not his other mess. Since this forum is about trains, IMHO future post in this thread should adress updates to the conductor's case, and the impact this has on the affected trains. Assumptions about the accusations are really not necessary unless the accusations involve details about operations.

Trainmans daughter said:

Naptime, Boys! :angry2:

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Aloha

There have been a number of request to calm down. So if there are more digs at each other, rather than helpful comments, I will close this thread.

GG-1 said:

Trainmans daughter said:

Naptime, Boys! :angry2:

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Aloha

There have been a number of request to calm down. So if there are more digs at each other, rather than helpful comments, I will close this thread.

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I've grown weary of this entire back and forth between certain members. Accordingly, despite a few good points within a few of the posts, they're all gone now. And hence forth the staff will be taking similar actions on similar types of posts.

I don't mind that people have different and opposing points of view. That's normal and in fact encouraged. Someone asked in another topic, "Why do we allow people to post negative things about Amtrak?" We do so because people should know what they're getting into with Amtrak. It isn't always rosy, even though we'd like it to be. It isn't as bad as some seem to think and it isn't as glorious as some seem to think. But it's up to each person to filter the info they find here and decide what works for them. So they need the complete picture, both good and bad.

But they don't need fighting and nitpicking!

So with that, I'm closing this topic for 24 hours to allow for a cooling off period, at which point I'll reopen it for updates and further discussion on the topic at hand, the conductor currently accused of improper actions while on the job. Should someone find something regarding the story sooner, please don't hestitate to contact me or any member of the staff to have the topic reopened.

This topic is now once again open for discussion and further updates.

But please let's keep the digs and jabs out of things!