WI & OH Rail Projects Killed by US DOT

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For Chrissakes Dax, will you stop blaming "the people" or "the voters", not everybody voted for Kaisich or Walker, and for those that did-- not all of them agreed with their decisions. The blame is theirs, and theirs alone. It is their decision.
 
I have to applaud LaHood for his actions. The fact of the matter is, if they had let the states spend their HSR money on highway construction, that would have set a terrible precedent. Fortunately, he didn't.

I wish the lines were getting built, but I am happy they are going to states who want efficient transit, not idiots who think highways make sense.
 
They could never have built highways or done anything but what the money had been earmarked for-- I think that has been clear since day one.
 
For Chrissakes Dax, will you stop blaming "the people" or "the voters", not everybody voted for Kaisich or Walker, and for those that did-- not all of them agreed with their decisions. The blame is theirs, and theirs alone. It is their decision.
Of course I'm going to blame the voters who put these yahoos in office, who else would I blame? Your flailing deflections would only make sense if these politicians had carefully hidden their anti-rail agenda behind pro-rail propaganda, but in reality they were extremely vocal about their anti-rail positions. If it makes you feel any better my fellow Texans are every bit as ignorant as any Ohioan or Wisconsinite. We have the "patriotic secessionist" Rick Perry calling the shots over here. Better to take whatever money would be spent on Texas (I'm looking at you Beaumont) and give it to a true blue state that might actually do something useful with it.
 
Speaking as a CA resident, I'm more than happy to accept any monies other states don't want. Someone has to lead the way into the 21st century so it may as well be us. (Actually, we're entering the latter part of the 20th century, but that's a quibble.)

I read the extra money will be used to extend the first segment south toward Bakersfield.
 
Though technically speaking it isn't a done deal, just medium-well. Unless Strickland cancels the project LaHood can't pull the money until Jan. 13th-- the date the office changes hands. And Strickland will not be backing down.
The money isn't in Ohio's hands, it was only promised. And even then, they didn't have a Full Funding Agreement signed. That's an official promise to actually pay the monies to Ohio.

On the other hand, I believe that Wisconsin does have an FFA in place; I'm not sure if they got an FFA that weekend before the election or just permission to let all the contracts. That could make it a bit harder to just take away the money from them. I am however surprised that the Fed is leaving any money in place for Wisconsin, unless Mr. Walker has actually pledged to Mr. LaHood to spend that money on the Hiawatha service.

I saw Walker on TV last night and he said that he had talked with Secretary LaHood and that he had no problem with the money (2 million) going to the Hiawatha Line.
 
Kasich is now blaming Washington and the Democrats for the loss of the $400 million of Ohio's taxpayer's money to other states. Kasich and Kasich alone is to be blamed. He claims he wanted to use the money for other projects or return it to pay down the national debt. I can't believe he is that stupid to not know that was impossible. As recently as last week, his own people were saying the project would produce "only" 8000 jobs disputing the numbers touted by the 3-C proponents. But, 8000 jobs is 8000 jobs. And to think Kasich hammered Strickland during the campaign about job loss in this state. At least Strickland had somewhat of an excuse for the job losses...a deep recession. Kasich has no excuse for the 8000 lost jobs except his own ineptitude.

Kasich keeps stating that there were too many unanswered questions. He must not be able to read reports or visit states like North Carolina or Illinois where similar projects have been very successful.

Interestingly, next to the article in the Columbus Dispatch that reported the loss of the rail money was an article about recommendations from an ODOT committee about $167.7 million in new highway projects. According to projected figures, that amount of money would have subsidized the 3-C project for over 9 and a half years.

Worse, for those that might remember, the 3-C project was originally a Republican idea several years ago. Then again, that was before that group became so obstructionist.

To paraphrase a professor I had during graduate school at Xavier University, I don't hate Kasich but someday will read his obituary without regret.
 
For Chrissakes Dax, will you stop blaming "the people" or "the voters", not everybody voted for Kaisich or Walker, and for those that did-- not all of them agreed with their decisions. The blame is theirs, and theirs alone. It is their decision.
Of course I'm going to blame the voters who put these yahoos in office, who else would I blame? Your flailing deflections would only make sense if these politicians had carefully hidden their anti-rail agenda behind pro-rail propaganda, but in reality they were extremely vocal about their anti-rail positions. If it makes you feel any better my fellow Texans are every bit as ignorant as any Ohioan or Wisconsinite. We have the "patriotic secessionist" Rick Perry calling the shots over here. Better to take whatever money would be spent on Texas (I'm looking at you Beaumont) and give it to a true blue state that might actually do something useful with it.
Yeah, your blame is misplacesd. Thanks to you I can blame you for everything Rick Perry does.

You live in Texas, Rick perry is elected by Texans, therefore Rick Perry is your responsibility.
 
For Chrissakes Dax, will you stop blaming "the people" or "the voters", not everybody voted for Kaisich or Walker, and for those that did-- not all of them agreed with their decisions. The blame is theirs, and theirs alone. It is their decision.
Of course I'm going to blame the voters who put these yahoos in office, who else would I blame? Your flailing deflections would only make sense if these politicians had carefully hidden their anti-rail agenda behind pro-rail propaganda, but in reality they were extremely vocal about their anti-rail positions. If it makes you feel any better my fellow Texans are every bit as ignorant as any Ohioan or Wisconsinite. We have the "patriotic secessionist" Rick Perry calling the shots over here. Better to take whatever money would be spent on Texas (I'm looking at you Beaumont) and give it to a true blue state that might actually do something useful with it.

In all fairness our Gov. Goodhair is not as bad as the Governors of OH and WI. He never said he was 100% against HSR, true he never raised a finger to support it but I bet if we had a few hundred million to spend on it I bet he would not try to block or divert it. The same is true if the Republican Legislature came up with a bill for supporting HSR. Remember also Sen. Hutchinson supports HSR in Texas.

Sadly though with a 20 billion dollar deficit in the next 2 year budget. I dont see a passenger rail bill of any kind till 2013 at least.
 
Kasich is now blaming Washington and the Democrats for the loss of the $400 million of Ohio's taxpayer's money to other states.
Was anyone actually expecting any other outcome? :excl:

Kasich and Kasich alone is to be blamed.
Did Kasich stuff the ballot with 1.8 million votes all by himself? If anyone's to be blamed its the voters who put him in office.

Thanks to you I can blame you for everything Rick Perry does.
Don't forget to include the other twenty-five million of us who made The Rick Perry Show possible. :lol:

[Perry] never said he was 100% against HSR, true he never raised a finger to support it but I bet if we had a few hundred million to spend on it I bet he would not try to block or divert it. The same is true if the Republican Legislature came up with a bill for supporting HSR. Remember also Sen. Hutchinson supports HSR in Texas.
Sen Hutchinson might be a true passenger rail supporter, but she's also part of the old guard that is currently being cleansed from the GOP. Perry is a different animal entirely. He has sided with the proud-to-be-ignorant Palin wing of the party and there is nothing he won't say or do to win the votes of the delusional masses who love his arrogant rhetoric. I'm not saying he's stupid, I'm just saying he knows how to play Texans like a fiddle. Hutchinson knew how to bring in the money and how to appeal to yesterday's GOP but after taking on Perry she has a target painted on her back that will be hard to shake as her party eschews reason and logic in the search for cult-like purity.
 
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For Chrissakes Dax, will you stop blaming "the people" or "the voters", not everybody voted for Kaisich or Walker, and for those that did-- not all of them agreed with their decisions. The blame is theirs, and theirs alone. It is their decision.
Of course I'm going to blame the voters who put these yahoos in office, who else would I blame?
Did it every occur to those of you getting their shorts in a knot that everyone that voted for the candidate that was not "pro rail" did so for reasons totally unrelated to the rail issue? There were many that wanted passenger systems that voted for the other candadate because that were were other aprts of the candidates views and objectives that trupmed his "pro rail" views. There are also those with long memories that recall pro rail candidates that reneged on or simply failed to deliver their train related promises while going full bore on ohter unrelated issues.
 
Did it every occur to those of you getting their shorts in a knot...
Sorry George, but my shorts aren't in any knots about this. I'm happy with the outcome as the money will now be spent where it's wanted instead of being wasted on citizens who voted against it. What's to be upset about? Then again, I'm not one trying to defend my anti-rail voting record on a pro-rail forum. That must be difficult George, but it's not our fault if you painted yourself into an ideological corner.
 
Did it every occur to those of you getting their shorts in a knot...
Sorry George, but my shorts aren't in any knots about this. I'm happy with the outcome as the money will now be spent where it's wanted instead of being wasted on citizens who voted against it. What's to be upset about? Then again, I'm not one trying to defend my anti-rail voting record on a pro-rail forum. That must be difficult George, but it's not our fault if you painted yourself into an ideological corner.
Right, so rail is wasted on me I guess.

And don't drag George down to your level, ye high n mighty. When's the last time you won an election?
 
I have to applaud LaHood for his actions. The fact of the matter is, if they had let the states spend their HSR money on highway construction, that would have set a terrible precedent. Fortunately, he didn't.

I wish the lines were getting built, but I am happy they are going to states who want efficient transit, not idiots who think highways make sense.
I agree. Though I believe LaHood's hands were really tied. He could not just decide to spend the money on something other than passenger rail without Congress actually passing a bill permitting such. i believe the original bill clearly says the purpose for which this money was to be spent, and did not give much leeway to the DoT to do otherwise.
 
Which is perfect. The only thing that doesn't work is that all of this is under executive power.

I sure wish that the decision didn't belong to Kasich, the Ohio Senate would have been better, or even a ballot issue.
 
Question:

How can one person like Walker or Kasich make the decision to kill the HSR projects on their own? My understanding is that there were hundreds (or more) people involved in making the decisions to initiate and write the grant proposals in the first place at many levels of government. How can one person quash something that was begun long before the November elections? :huh:
 
Question:

How can one person like Walker or Kasich make the decision to kill the HSR projects on their own? My understanding is that there were hundreds (or more) people involved in making the decisions to initiate and write the grant proposals in the first place at many levels of government. How can one person quash something that was begun long before the November elections? :huh:
To be accurate, the projects were killed by the US DOT, not by either governor.

Both incoming governors pledged to stop the projects once they took office. To do that would have required the state legislatures to agree, either actively or passively. While it is possible that the legislatures might not have permitted the projects to be halted, and it is even possible that one or both of the incoming governors may have changed his mind, it was probable that sometime early next year both projects were going to be stopped by the states. However, neither state had formally cancelled the work. At this point it was only threats by the incoming governors.

With both state grants in jeopardy, Secretary of Transportation Ray LaHood decided to act on his own and withdraw the grants now. He did that for purely political reasons. Come January, the new congress will be far less friendly to the administration than the existing congress. Although the grants for high speed rail had been appropriated, most of the funds for both Ohio and Wisconsin had not been legally committed in the sense that formal contracts had been executed and money was flowing (an embarrassed US DOT essentially said the contract secretly signed with Wisconsin the weekend before the election was null and void). If either or both states backed out, the funds allocated could be unappropriated by congress and used for some other unrelated purpose, or even just not spent at all. Cancellation by the states would not happen until sometime next year.

The administration did not want to wait until next year to deal with two states giving back $1.2 billion of HSR grants given the likelihood that their relationship with congress in 2011 may not be so amicable. That $1.2 billion could become a political football between the new congress and the administration. Yes, the President has veto power over congressional actions, but in the give and take world of a mixed-party government, the $1.2 billion could become a pawn and be taken in exchange for the administration getting something else. To prevent the possibility that congress could pull that $1.2 billion from the HSR program, they took the money from Ohio and Wisconsin without waiting for state cancellations (assuming both were a lost cause) and quickly redirected it to other states. They now want to get that $1.2 billion formally committed by contract to the other states as quickly as possible to prevent it from going into play with the next congress.

While the underlying reason the projects in both states were cancelled was the stance of both incoming governors, the actual cancellation was not an action taken by either state. It was a unilateral action taken by the US Department of Transportation and Secretary LaHood.
 
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Spoken like a compulsive revisionist.

With both state grants in jeopardy, Secretary of Transportation Ray LaHood decided to act on his own and withdraw the grants now. He did that for purely political reasons.
LaHood merely removed the funding from the political football these two governors elect had intentionally turned it into. Considering that the projects were supposed to be creating jobs while building up our infrastructure and that this money wouldn't be doing any of that LaHood did his job and moved the money to states that would not be sitting on it wasting time telling their lazy and ignorant electorate that they could somehow redirect the funds to clearly disqualified uses. Our economy is hurting now, in case you hadn't noticed, and intentionally sitting on funds meant to bring more jobs today won't help anyone but a few manipulative politicians. It must be hard to see your party of choice do everything they can to mock and dismantle passenger rail funding even as you claim to support it, but blaming LaHood makes no sense in this context.
 
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With both state grants in jeopardy, Secretary of Transportation Ray LaHood decided to act on his own and withdraw the grants now. He did that for purely political reasons.
Spoken like a true revisionist. LaHood merely removed the funding from the political football these two governors elect had intentionally turned it into. Considering that the projects were supposed to be creating jobs while building up our infrastructure and that this money wouldn't be doing any of that LaHood did his job and moved the money to states that would not be sitting on it wasting time telling their lazy and ignorant electorate that they could somehow redirect the funds to clearly disqualified uses. Our economy is hurting now[/i] and sitting on funds meant to bring more jobs today won't help anyone but a few politicians. It must be hard to see your party of choice do everything they can to mock and dismantle passenger rail funding even as you claim to support it, but blaming LaHood makes no sense in this context.
Where did I criticize Secretary LaHood? The actions he took kept the funding in the HSR program. Even if you think the HSR program is only a jobs program, jobs are jobs, no matter what state. Waiting until next year for the almost certain cancellation by the states would have jeopardized the continued use of the funds for rail. It was a smart move.
 
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Where did I criticize Secretary LaHood? The actions he took kept the funding in the HSR program. Even if you thing the HSR program is only a jobs program, jobs are jobs, no matter what state. Waiting until next year for the almost certain cancellation by the states would have jeopardized the continued use of the funds for rail. It was a smart move.
You assigned the politics of the debate to LaHood, instead of the governors that had actually done all the politicizing. So far as I can tell LaHood wasn't politicizing anything so much as reacting to the new reality of the situation. Knowing that the GOP was going to blame the administration with or without the funds (as we now see) LaHood simply moved them to where they might do more good than just giving a few manipulative politicians a platform to rail against. If anything it sounds like he was depoliticizing the situation to me.
 
Where did I criticize Secretary LaHood? The actions he took kept the funding in the HSR program. Even if you thing the HSR program is only a jobs program, jobs are jobs, no matter what state. Waiting until next year for the almost certain cancellation by the states would have jeopardized the continued use of the funds for rail. It was a smart move.
You assigned the politics of the debate to LaHood, instead of the governors that had actually done all the politicizing. So far as I can tell LaHood wasn't politicizing anything so much as reacting to the new reality of the situation. Knowing that the GOP was going to blame the administration with or without the funds (as we now see) LaHood simply moved them to where they might do more good than just giving a few manipulative politicians a platform to rail against. If anything it sounds like he was depoliticizing the situation to me.
daxomni, I agree with your analysis.

By the way, here's your $200-->$200. I thought Walker would cave. Instead, he has steadfastly played the fool.

I can't remember the last time I have witnessed someone embracing such blatant ignorance and stupidity with a straight face. :wacko:

Is it just me, or does he always look like he's half-asleep?
 
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